Ultra amps & their 2 minutes of "OFF TIME" ??

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by paulst10, Jan 17, 2008.

  1. paulst10

    paulst10
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Messages:
    12,805
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Essex
    Ratings:
    +2,249
    Bit of info for you Ultra owners

    Had my PC Ultra replaced yesterday due to what thought was a POWER ON switch problem .. The sub would turn on fine from cold and play perfectly when required ... but, after the sub had some use and I switched it OFF using the switch at the back .. if I tried to turn it on again seconds later, the sub would not always turn ON :confused:

    After the replacement sub arrived yesterday, I switched it ON, turned it OFF, then turned it back On again, and it did exactly the same thing :thumbsdow .. so got onto AV-Sales and they agreed to try their demo model and get back to me.

    Sitting around last night, I thought I would read the manual again .. I came across a small sentence with regard to the power ON switch, saying .. "please allow 2 minutes of OFF time before powering ON" :suicide:

    But this has got me thinking, if it is some sort of safety/time delay circuitry .. why does the sub come on sometimes after being switched OFF, and sometimes it wont come on at all .. unless you wait a couple of minutes :confused: :confused:

    Paul
     
  2. suniil

    suniil
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    4,948
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London SE5 / W1
    Ratings:
    +402
    Some temperature sensor or similar stuffs? will have a go tonight and let you know

    There was a known problem similar to this, as users has to wait for long to get the amp working from on-off-on mode. But AFAIK, this has been resolved in nov 07


     
  3. paulst10

    paulst10
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Messages:
    12,805
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Essex
    Ratings:
    +2,249
    Maybe we have their old amps :D

    Been in touch with Ian @ AV-Sales today and he said he cannot re-create the problem with their demo PC Ultra .. everytime he switched it OFF then ON it worked fine. :confused:

    I happened to come across this by accident (watched a film, turned the sub OFF, sat down, 10 seconds late decided to watch another film, but the sub wouldnt turn ON) Its not a major problem for me as I dont plan on switching it on and off regular, and if I have to wait 2 min from turning it OFF .. then so be it, but, I would like to know why this is happening as nothing like this ever happened with the PB12+ :confused:
     
  4. recruit

    recruit
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I read that the other night Paul after I recieved you're PM and meant to mention it to you but forgot, sorry :suicide:
     
  5. sunnyhd

    sunnyhd
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2007
    Messages:
    590
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Chorley
    Ratings:
    +26
    I had the same problem with pb13 yesterday....i thought maybe i blew up the fuss. so i tried a different plug nothing happened at first so i gave up, then i tried again after an hour or and so it worked. i don't really know what caused it, just hope it doesn't happen again.....
    james
     
  6. neilybealy

    neilybealy
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Messages:
    1,556
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +57
    just checked my 20-39 and it's doing exactly the same but i just literally turned on my amp for a few secs and on really low so it's not like the amp is warm

    wonder if any of the av-sales boys could take this up with SVS direct?
     
  7. Member 6435

    Member 6435
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2000
    Messages:
    1,518
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Tunbridge Wells
    Ratings:
    +324
    Afternoon all

    We sent an email to Ron at SVS as soon as Paul found this on his first sub. There must be a very good reason for this 2 min wait especially as it is mentioned in the manual. I would suggest that until we get a reply purchasers resist the temptation to flick the subs on and off a number of times within a few seconds. For the moment please switch your subs on and enjoy. There may be a very good reason for this delay to protect the amp.

    We have asked Ron or Ed at SVS to respond on this thread but they may be having a couple of days off after CES as we cannot get a reply as yet. Please bear with us and hopefully we can establish this is a feature of the product not a fault.

    Regards

    Alastair:hiya:
     
  8. neilybealy

    neilybealy
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Messages:
    1,556
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +57
    cheers Alastair :thumbsup:
     
  9. AdrianMills

    AdrianMills
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,059
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Kongsberg (originally S.Wales)
    Ratings:
    +260
    This sounds like the "feature" that requires the Ultra's capacitors to fully discharged before it will turn on again.
     
  10. Ed Mullen

    Ed Mullen
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    44
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +32
    According to Indigo/Sonavox (the amp manufacturer), the amp stage goes through a shut-down routine which involves (among other things) discharging the capacitors. This takes some time, hence the refusal of the amp to turn back-on immediately. If the user waits a few minutes, the amp should turn back-on.

    My experience has been there is a variance in on/off cycle time in these amps; some cycle faster than others and I've had to wait more than 2 minutes for a few I've worked with, and others are less than 2 minutes.

    To avoid this, my recommendation is to leave the amp on (or in auto-on/standby mode) at all times, unless you are actually making RCA/XLR connections or unplugging the unit from the AC outlet - then you must power down first for safety reasons of course.

    We realize this feature is viewed as an inconvenience by some users, and we've requested a faster on/off cycle as a running change on this platform, but we don't have firm time frame on same. But to be clear, it's not a defect in the amp; it's normal behavior according to the OEM.
     
  11. neilybealy

    neilybealy
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Messages:
    1,556
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +57
    thanks for your speedy response Ed

    top marks :thumbsup:
     
  12. suniil

    suniil
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    4,948
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London SE5 / W1
    Ratings:
    +402
    Thanks Ed for poping in! any idea how much power the amp draws, in standby mode?

     
  13. Andori

    Andori
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,336
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Lincoln
    Ratings:
    +220
    Another example of the fine support from AV-Sales and SVS :smashin:
     
  14. Flip_X

    Flip_X
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    65
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +3
    I was about to suggest the same thing.

    As a fix and if the amps use a linear power supply then you could implement bleed down resistors from the + and - rails to the center tap/ground of the PSU. When the amp is turned off the resistors drain the caps far faster than would normally be the case. There's also an added sonic benefit in that the resistors lower power supply voltage ripple creating a cleaner and more stable source of power.
     
  15. paulst10

    paulst10
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Messages:
    12,805
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Essex
    Ratings:
    +2,249
    :( .. 2 mins I could handle, but, I turned my sub off yesterday around 9.30pm after watching Cars on BluRay :blush: :D (sounded superb by the way) :thumbsup:

    Tried it as soon as got in from work nearly an hour ago and it wouldnt turn on at all, tried it about every 5 mins or so & I have just managed to get it to turn on halfway through typing this .. now im afraid to turn it off [​IMG]

    I dont seem to be having much luck with this
     
  16. Andywilliams

    Andywilliams
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,111
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    notts.
    Ratings:
    +76
    I left my old pc-ultra on auto-standbye for nearly 3 years till true blue brought it off me and will keep the new ultra the same.
    Andy.
     
  17. sunnyhd

    sunnyhd
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2007
    Messages:
    590
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Chorley
    Ratings:
    +26

    same here, I just moved my sub to see how it will sound in a different place. Guess What! IT WON'T TURN ON:mad: been waiting over on hour now, still no luck.. any suggestion?
     
  18. sunnyhd

    sunnyhd
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2007
    Messages:
    590
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Chorley
    Ratings:
    +26
    STILL WON'T TURN ON :mad: just my luck. was lookiing forward to watching few movies this weekend but no luck. will have to call av sales tomorrow and to get a replacement.
     
  19. Elephant Man

    Elephant Man
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2000
    Messages:
    335
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    England
    Ratings:
    +7
    My Pb-13 died last tuesday.:mad:
     
  20. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    10,617
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Detached from reality
    Ratings:
    +1,635
    I don't have this problem, on/off many times during setup and it always plays right away...
     
  21. recruit

    recruit
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Me too, I am sure if there are some problem amps then they will be sorted out quite quickly, still loving mine :cool:
     
  22. Crustyloafer

    Crustyloafer
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2003
    Messages:
    9,577
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Ratings:
    +1,269
    That's exactly the conclusion I came to reading the OP's comments about this issue. Seems to be a fairly sensible design feature to me.
     
  23. sunnyhd

    sunnyhd
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2007
    Messages:
    590
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Chorley
    Ratings:
    +26
    Its working now:thumbsup: . still i'll be speaking to av sales to sort this out. I am afraid to turn it off again
     
  24. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    10,617
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Detached from reality
    Ratings:
    +1,635
    Just to rub salt into your wounds, the textured black one you sent back is the one I have on loan and it works no matter how many times you switch it on and off :rotfl:

    Adam
     
  25. AdrianMills

    AdrianMills
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,059
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Kongsberg (originally S.Wales)
    Ratings:
    +260
    I've been turning my Ultra off at the APC block I have it connected to as the switch on the amp is just too awkward to reach; call me a tree hugger if you want but I think it's pretty much irresponsible and unnecessary to keep things powered up when not in use these days. For what it’s worth, turning off also reduces the risk of electrical fires, even if by a very small percentage.

    Well, this has worked fine up until this morning; every morning I get up switch on my setup to play some background while I wake up, I switch it off to go to work, then on when I get home and off again to go to bed.

    Now, this morning, nothing. No Woomphf as it powers up, no light either, nothing.

    Sub is in the "on" setting as auto on requires too much signal for it to kick in and is unusable for me.

    I must admit, and I said/implied it on my AH review, I'm not at all impressed with the amps build quality. The sub, and driver yes and the sound, yes, incredible. The amp though... It came with a loose LFE connector plug and the on/auto toggle switch feels rough like it has sand in there. There really shouldn't be this issue with long capacitor draining times; seriously, none of my other SVS subs have had this “feature” and I haven't heard of other quality subs that require it either.

    Given the other amp issues they had in the US that had to be resolved I'm starting to wonder if SVS cut corners on the amp so as to bring this incredible driver and box onto the market at a sweet spot price. :(

    Really, I'd prefer to pay more and get a quality amp in there guys.

    And I'm also now wondering if I should have pulled the trigger on that Fathom F113 I was offered instead.
     
  26. Giblets2

    Giblets2
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    2,277
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +183
    I must say as a non-SVS owner reading this I think you guys are far too patient. If my sub wouldn't turn on - even once - I'd be on to the dealer to get it exchanged under warranty, 2 mins well fair enough I suppose (although odd) but the guys who have left it off a day and still had problems - send it back!
     
  27. angelislington

    angelislington
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,553
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +234
    It's worth pointing out that although any problem is treated extremely seriously, these are only isolated incidents and the vast majority of SVS products in the field are working happily, just like their owners :D
     
  28. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    10,617
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Detached from reality
    Ratings:
    +1,635
    I couldn't agree more, considering how much kit a lot of members here have, I think we should be the first people to turn things off, but from most of the replies on this subject, we seem to be in the minority Adrian.

    As for your comments on the Amp, I can only say the one I have is on loan and has performed perfectly with regards the '2 minutes downtime' but the auto-on feature seems temperamental at best. As I always switch things off this isn't really a problem for me but I am concerned about how many people seem to be having these amp issues, it isn't very 'SVS'.

    I hope they get things sorted soon :)

    Adam
     
  29. Member 6435

    Member 6435
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2000
    Messages:
    1,518
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Tunbridge Wells
    Ratings:
    +324
    Morning all

    We are waiting for a reply from SVS to see if they have had any reported problems.

    In the meantime Ian and I have just tried a returned PC Ultra that was replaced due to the switching on and off problems. Despite trying to replicate the problem it is working correctly by switching it on and off in quick succession using the on/off switch in both 'auto' and 'on' mode. We have also removed the IEC cable a number of times and replaced this while the sub was in the 'on' mode and also repeated this at the mains socket by turning the socket on and off. The sub responds immediately and doesn't even require the 2 minute capacitor discharge. We've also tried this on a brand new unit straight from the box. We'll carry on doing these tests on the returned unit during the day.

    We have sent out 45 subs from the last consignment and to date have had a couple report this issue. We have a PB Ultra coming back for the same power on/off reason which is being swapped today. We'll test this as well as soon as we get it back in our offices.

    Rest assured we are liasing with SVS on this matter and will deal with any problems as soon as we are notified and will keep everyone informed.

    Regards

    Alastair:hiya:
     
  30. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    10,617
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Detached from reality
    Ratings:
    +1,635
    Nice to see you are on the case as usual Alastair :)
     

Share This Page

Loading...