uk law on licencing

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by samuel mcmeekin, Mar 7, 2013.

  1. samuel mcmeekin

    samuel mcmeekin
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    if uk televsion programmes are downloaded to a dvd recorder and not watched live does this allow me not to have to buy the television operating licence? I would want to link the recorder to the tv screen to actually view it

    Sam mcmeekin
     
  2. Trollslayer

    Trollslayer
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    Separating one action into two doesn't change things.
    You still have to pay since you are doing this in order to watch the programme.
     
  3. Quaddy

    Quaddy
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    as trollslayer says, you need to pay.
     
  4. mike7

    mike7
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    Correct. The licence permits you to operate equipment that enables you to 'receive' television signals. When and how you watch them is irrelevant to the issue.
     
  5. DELUCAS

    DELUCAS
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    Get a display monitor only.
    and connect bbc iplayer via a device that does not receive live brodcast and watch without a tv license.

    or get someone to download programes for you to watvh later .

    unless the tv license has moved the goal posts again ?
     
  6. smackos

    smackos
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    No your perfectly correct. In order for you to be legally exempt from requiring a tv licence then you cannot watch or record from a live transmission. You can borrow other peoples recordings on dvd for example or you can watch the non-live portion of iplayer, 4OD etc plus use VOD/streaming/rental services, LoveFilm, Netflix, itunes etc.

    @OP- In our case we binned our old freeview box in the bedroom and physically cut the cable to our satellite dish, then gave our sky box away to a friend.

    For us personally we weren't initially looking at getting rid of the tv license, it was more aimed at finding a way to replace Sky tv. It just so happened that by in doing so, subscribing to Netflix, Lovefilm and the like, it also ticked all the boxes required to stop the tv license too.

    You just have to be realistic with what you actually watch at home and put a monetary value on it. If you watch current affairs, news and sport then its always going to be impractical getting rid of a license. In our case we watch mostly films and tv shows, drama, comedy, that sort of thing. We do like some sport but when everything else we watch comes in under £200 a year, we cannot justly spending another £500 plus JUST for football. We just stick to listening in on the radio and then catching up with Match Of the Day 2 midweek on iplayer.

    We probably have the tv on less now than we used to, but ironically we probably actually sit and actually WATCH more now too. None of this "I can't find anything on" so I'll just stick channel on in the background for the sake of it etc like we used to.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  7. mike7

    mike7
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    If you have equipment in the home. a tv, a pvr, video player etc that is capable of receiving live transmissions, even if you claim never to watch them, then you are liable to pay the UK licence fee. Until recently it used to be the case that dealers were obliged to take your name and address if you bought such equipment. Short of physically removing the tuners from equipment you will have a difficult job explaining to the authorities why you feel you do not want to pay. The licencing authority now work on the basis that ALL homes have a TV of some sort. Unless you have no apparatus at all you will have a difficult job challenging this.

    Having no aerial is not sufficient. Personally I don't want to be subsidising licence dodgers. You will not be surprised to learn that most of them turn on live TV when there is an important match on.

    This is taken from the TV licencing website. I don't see any reference to iPlayer services, but this is a loophole that IMO should be closed. Watching TV legitimately costs 2.9p a day. That wouldn't buy you a newspaper!

    Watching TV on the internet You need to be covered by a licence if you watch TV online at the same time as it's being broadcast on conventional TV in the UK or the Channel Islands. Video recorders and digital recorders like Sky+ You need a licence if you record TV as it's broadcast, whether that's on a conventional video recorder or digital box. Mobile phones A licence covers you to watch TV as it's broadcast on a mobile phone, whether you're at home or out and about.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  8. smackos

    smackos
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  9. smackos

    smackos
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    The "LoopHole" is actually one that the BBC won't want closing I should imagine. Your Tv License isn't actually in effect because of what CONTENT the BBC provides, its in place because the BBC has the national obligation to maintain the platforms behind the transmitted tv stations we use, FreeView and FreeSat as it is now. We don't have any obligation to pay for iplayer, because A) the "infrastructure" itself is already maintained by the ISP's and B) if iplayer too became part of the national infrastraucture, it'll mean the BBC should also have to provide for ITV, 4oD and 5 on Demand etc too as a platform.

    Also the Tv License itself isn't about what Equipment you have or don't have at home, that's a misconception many people who'll proclaim to "know" will spout. Its purely about what you DO watch, unless of course we're now advocating a change in the law so we're all guilty until proven innocent. Tv licensing themselves regularly quote "Nearly one out of every five unlicensed homes is found to require a license". That's another way of saying "More than 80% of people we regularly harass, actually don't require a license."

    For myself personally I hope one day the BBC goes to a subscription model, like it does already in America. That way all those folk that regularly snear at License "Dodgers", actually start footing the bill fully for what the rest of us don't want to watch, but are presumed we should pay for. I already pay for Netflix and LoveFilm, who in turn already have deals to show the BBC content I choose to watch. I don't see why I should be forced to pay three times over for the privilege.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  10. mckee74

    mckee74
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    I wish this thread would die.

    Lord knows how the OP thought about this topic, and thought that yeah the forum relating to HD-DVD players will be the place for it.
     
  11. smackos

    smackos
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    Ha. I'm only viewing via my mobile app so it doesn't say where the thread is placed. Brilliant.
     
  12. r.vernon1

    r.vernon1
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    Been reading this thread over on the consumer forums.

    Tv License Visit

    According to some on there, you can withdraw tv licensings implied rights of access and leave it to them to try and prove that you are watching or recording live tv. Seems a dodgy practice, and an easy way to try evade paying the license fee. Looking on YouTube, there are a number of people owns enjoy throwing their rights back in the faces of tv licensing enforcers and seem to think it is a game.

    I think in 2016 when it's up for review, tv licensing evaders may just cause a big shakeup as its becoming a joke now. Can they scramble all freeview broadcasts and only allow access to people who pay for a license? Very interesting topic.
     
  13. SBT

    SBT
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    Got a new licence last week.Even if you don't have a tv you still need one if you have a laptop/pc,games console,tablet or mobile phone in the house.Basicaly anything you can use to get online.

    Seems they have all bases covered :mad:
     
  14. r.vernon1

    r.vernon1
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    Not according to the tv licensing website, you only need a license to watch or record live tv.
     
  15. SBT

    SBT
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    Well according to the letter they sent me you do.

    I hadn't even moved in and had two letters in two days demanding i get a licence now,and they had already arranged for someone to visit the house :mad:

    On the letter is says you need a licence for all of the items i mentioned.I don't have it to hand as it's at the other house with proof i've bought one.But i'll take a pic and post it on here.

    Basicaly they were saying the next step was to take me to court :eek: i'd only picked up the keys the day before.
     
  16. r.vernon1

    r.vernon1
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    Yeah you need a license if you watch live tv or record it on any of those devices that you list. It's not just a tv that you can watch live tv on. Just owning the equipment isn't a requirement of a license.

    They won't or can't take you to court without proof that you have been watching or recording live tv, so I wouldn't worry.
     
  17. SBT

    SBT
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    I'm not worried,if it was down to me i wouldn't even buy one but she worries and went straight to a shop and bought one via paypoint.

    She even left the receipt at the other house just incase someone turns up :laugh:
     
  18. Sonic67

    Sonic67
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  19. Phil57

    Phil57
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    Your first two lines are totally wrong.:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  20. k17chy

    k17chy
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    [ame=http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b9uq5X3OGjU&feature=related]The BBC TV License Extortion Racket Exposed - YouTube[/ame]
     
  21. jasonf01

    jasonf01
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    Well, naturally when theyre trying to sell you a service, theyre not going to say "actually, you probably dont need one".

    As a commercial entity wanting you to buy their product theyre going to push the important points of it. [-]£1000 fine for not having one when[/-] You need one and dont have one, the constant letters [-]with the windows and red edges presenting you to the world as an evader rather than a non-viewer[/-] inviting you to try their service, or [-]the lovely sit down with one of our salesmen in the comfort of your own home[/-] hassle of a TV licencing inspector visit.

    Think of them as Safestyle windows. Yes I have wooden windows. No you cant measure up to see how much a new set of uPVC ones will cost. Pushy door to door sales of things you probably dont want or need, if you did need one you would (should) already have one.

    Despite their implicit warnings of sending round Inspectors, they are just salesmen with the same rights to your property as a safestyle door knocker. As such, if you get annoyed with them harassing you, you have every right to [-]tell them to <snip> off[/-] withdraw your implied right of access and sue them for harassment and aggrevated tresspass should they come knocking again. Afterall, they have detector vans to proove your requirements from the road if required...right?

    The rules are simple, and are on TVLicencing website. Watching/recording something that your next door neighbours could be watching with the right equipment/subscription? You need a licence.

    Never watch anything as its broadcast or record from broadcast source? You dont need a licence.

    [-]Fed up or feeling intimidated by the letters/visits etc from TV Licence? Get one and save your sanity. TV Licencing recommends this option for genuine non-viewers.[/-]

    Jas.
     
  22. r.vernon1

    r.vernon1
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    Absolutely. And I have no issue with people who don't need a license using their rights to defend their position. It's the scumbags who use the same rights to revoke access to their property and try to make out persecution, when they are watching live tv and just evading paying for a license.
     
  23. jasonf01

    jasonf01
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    ...Thats not to say they wont imply that they will or can to make a sale though.

    Jas.
     
  24. jasonf01

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    Yeah, genuine evaders bug me too. The problem is that genuine non-viewers cant be taken seriously, and especially not by [note, from what ive heard, this is anecdotal but please anyone feel free to prove/disprove] by a group of inspectors that are working on a commission basis.

    Imagine if our judges worked on a commission basis. Great...more criminals locked up, right? But taking money for a conviction is going to bias the judge in favour of the conviction (making it more likely for them to convict an innocent person), and its only a small step from there to take more money from the other side to secure freedom.

    Same with police. If they were on commission, I dread to think how many people would get stopped for doing 31 in a 30 zone! :laugh:

    I would give TV licensing more credibility if an unbiased third party could assess the requirement for a TV licence rather than someone on their payroll (and possibly working on a commission basis).

    Jas.
     
  25. r.vernon1

    r.vernon1
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    Again you're right. Another reason it needs to be taken away from capita and the outsourcing being brought back in house. It's needs or be done right, fairly and not to mislead.

    They need to remove the focus on targets and commissions and make it simply about taking licence evaders to task.
     
  26. jasonf01

    jasonf01
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    Oh and as were now heading way off topic, my advice to the original poster is this:

    If youre prepared to wait for a show and not watch it live, unplug the aerial, detune the TV and get the show from one of the catchup websites or have a helpful friend record it.

    It might be useful if you donated your recorder to whoever was helping you record it, and get a player instead, if you choose to go with the helpful friend option.

    I will say that the friend option is "frowned upon" in the copyright arena - technically the friend is breaching copyright by giving you the copy - but given that the catchup websites do the same thing as your friend does, im not sure how you or your friend would fare -if- it ever came down to it.

    Personally, being a geek, I would do the catchup option. Theres not much Id ever want to watch as its being broadcast, and if I ever fancy a big sporting thing, Id go to a pub that was showing it live (Im not a sport person though). YMMV.

    Jas.
     
  27. jasonf01

    jasonf01
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    Ive never heard it said better, and couldnt agree more.

    Jas.
     
  28. nero0410

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    With the amount and frequency of adverts on other channels (usually every ten bloody minutes), I would have thought the tv 'license' would have been scrapped by now because of that very reason.

    tris
     
  29. blue max

    blue max
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    Things that annoy me about this...

    Calling it a TV License - it's not, it's funding for the BBC.

    I can't not see it, so have to pay for it - encrypt it and have it pay to view, sorted.

    Endless repeats from decades ago - who watches Dad's Army really?

    Adverts - the trailer their own shows endlessly. It's worse than ads.

    We can live without lavish period dramas every blue moon thank you. By all means make them and ship them to the States, but don't expect us to pay for them. In no other area of life are we asked to pay for something against our will. We pay taxes. Taxes are honest. The TV license is not.
     
  30. wongataa

    wongataa
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    Don't forget that besides TV the BBC provide several national and local radio stations and quite a lot of content on the web. That is all paid for from the TV licence too. Trailers are not worse than ads either as they do not occur during programmes.
     

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