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Tyre question: Why do F1 have high profile tyres? Supercars have low profile tyres?

tony brazao

Active Member
Quick question, why do F1 cars have such high profile tyres and all supercars (911 Turbos, Lambos, Veyron etc) have rubber band thin low profile tyres?

Tony
 

eric pisch

Distinguished Member
Quick question, why do F1 cars have such high profile tyres and all supercars (911 Turbos, Lambos, Veyron etc) have rubber band thin low profile tyres?

Tony

as stated the regs restrict the size of the rim they are allowed

they tyre wall movement becomes an integral part of the suspension and they adjust it with different pressures.

they also fill them with nitrogen

its probably a through back to old tyre technology when they could not make these ultra high profile tyres
 

FZR400RRSP

Banned
they also fill them with nitrogen

There are people do this on the road!:rotfl:

To be fair, it's usually when you've had performance tyres fitted and the garage concerned does it as a bit of a gimmick.

After all, you can't exactly refill them with Nitrogen yourself, when they inevitably lose pressure.:rolleyes:
 

eric pisch

Distinguished Member
There are people do this on the road!:rotfl:

To be fair, it's usually when you've had performance tyres fitted and the garage concerned does it as a bit of a gimmick.

After all, you can't exactly refill them with Nitrogen yourself, when they inevitably lose pressure.:rolleyes:

Nissan GTR comes with this and special double bead tyres, needs a special rig to change the tyres

One of the things nagging me about it in the back of my mind
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Excepting a leak or a puncture isn't the idea that the nitrogen doesn't escape in the same way air does? Some of the more volatile components of air can diffuse through the rubber and nitrogen can't. Also there should be no internal rotting of the rubber as there is no oxygen or water vapour in there. I'm sure here is a lot more pseudo science mumbo jumbo to it but those are the two points that made sense when I've read about it. Just for the record I have air in my tyres :)
 

eric pisch

Distinguished Member
Excepting a leak or a puncture isn't the idea that the nitrogen doesn't escape in the same way air does? Some of the more volatile components of air can diffuse through the rubber and nitrogen can't. Also there should be no internal rotting of the rubber as there is no oxygen or water vapour in there. I'm sure here is a lot more pseudo science mumbo jumbo to it but those are the two points that made sense when I've read about it. Just for the record I have air in my tyres :)

since the tyres can have a life of 3 laps on a F1 car i doubt thats why

I always thought it was because it reacted less to heat so the pressure was more predictable
 

Kristian

Well-known Member
Excepting a leak or a puncture isn't the idea that the nitrogen doesn't escape in the same way air does?

No, I think it's because the behaviour of the tyre (e.g. pressure changes) is more predictable when using just nitrogen rather than a mixed gas i.e. air
 

dr_mabuse

Active Member
Slightly O/T but one of my clients recently had Nitrogen put into all 4 tyres on his 911 and he says it is making a massive difference to the handling - in his opinion 10% or more better, with no increase in road noise or ride comfort.
 

shodan

Distinguished Member
Slightly O/T but one of my clients recently had Nitrogen put into all 4 tyres on his 911 and he says it is making a massive difference to the handling - in his opinion 10% or more better, with no increase in road noise or ride comfort.

How the dickens could someone work out that a cars handling is 10% better one way or another? Its either better or not, maybe a little better or a lot better but how could that be worked out as a percentage?
 

jenic

Well-known Member
Ive had nitrogen in my tyres, apparently HiQ do it as standard now.

He said not to mix it with air when checking the pressure, this didn't please me.

I checked the pressure a few weeks later and it had gone down so ended up deflating the tyres to fill them with air from my compressor, now they keep there pressures a lot better! And it did not affect handling imo.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
since the tyres can have a life of 3 laps on a F1 car i doubt thats why

I always thought it was because it reacted less to heat so the pressure was more predictable

My apologies, the previous two posts to mine had been about the use of nitrogen in road tyres and I was following on from them :)
 

Wild Weasel

Distinguished Member
No, I think it's because the behaviour of the tyre (e.g. pressure changes) is more predictable when using just nitrogen rather than a mixed gas i.e. air

Further to that, processed nitrogen won't contain water vapour, which also effects tyre pressure at different temperatures.

On some racing bicycles they use helium in the tyres. :cool:
 

Gadgetcity

Active Member
Ive had nitrogen in my tyres, apparently HiQ do it as standard now.

He said not to mix it with air when checking the pressure, this didn't please me.

LOL, air is 78% Nitrogen anyway! How could it hurt topping up with a little air to top off the tyre pressure?
 

Moviebuff

Well-known Member
I was in stationary traffic the other day, and while gawping around like a fish in it's bowl, I noticed that even Kwik Fit offer a nitrogen filling service.

According to their TV ads, they offer free replacement brake pads for as long as you own the car.

I wonder if they offer free refills of n2, once your pressures are on the low side.


Hmmmmmmmm ...... ! :rolleyes:
 

FZR400RRSP

Banned
Slightly O/T but one of my clients recently had Nitrogen put into all 4 tyres on his 911 and he says it is making a massive difference to the handling - in his opinion 10% or more better, with no increase in road noise or ride comfort.

Your client's full of it.
People don't use nitrogen because it improves the handling.
They use it because it doesn't react to temperature changes as badly as air.
So all it does is make a possible variable into a constant.
Anyone who says they detect an improvement the moment hydrogen is pumped in is full of crap.

If he noticed an improvement in handling, I would suggest his tyre pressures were badly adjusted in the first place.
So all the operator pumping the nitrogen in did was adjust them to the right pressure.
The right pressures will make a difference, air or nitrogen.
I can detect when my car's tyres have dropped a few psi, no problem.
 
Last edited:

loz

Distinguished Member
Your client's full of it.
People don't use nitrogen because it improves the handling.
They use it because it doesn't react to temperature changes as badly as air.
So all it does is make a possible variable into a constant.
Anyone who says they detect an improvement the moment hydrogen is pumped in is full of crap.

If he noticed an improvement in handling, I would suggest his tyre pressures were badly adjusted in the first place.
So all the operator pumping the nitrogen in did was adjust them to the right pressure.
The right pressures will make a difference, air or nitrogen.
I can detect when my car's tyres have dropped a few psi, no problem.

perhaps he used liquid nitrogen. :smashin:
 

huntere

Well-known Member
On this topic, on Australian Topgear (franchise of UK show and on the whole AWFUL) they had a new Holden HSV Clubsport testing session. The special edition came with ultra low profiles as an option with huge brakes etc.
Anyway when Stig too it out for a lap he hated it so much he insisted they put the standard rims back on (profile more in line with touring car racing here) - difference in lap times was 4 secs faster with standard and not the boy racer rims. Oh and thats in 1'10" lap so significant. It was quite amazing to see.
Lower isnt always faster.
 

markymark34

Well-known Member
The right pressures will make a difference, air or nitrogen.
I can detect when my car's tyres have dropped a few psi, no problem.

Your spot on there. I had an imported MR2 turbo with L shaped valves that leaked. I could tell when it had lost as little as 4 psi. Strangely in my M3 it could drop quite a bit before i can feel it. Guess it depends on how firm the suspension is.
 

MrO

Well-known Member
I was in stationary traffic the other day, and while gawping around like a fish in it's bowl, I noticed that even Kwik Fit offer a nitrogen filling service.

According to their TV ads, they offer free replacement brake pads for as long as you own the car.

I wonder if they offer free refills of n2, once your pressures are on the low side.

Hmmmmmmmm ...... ! :rolleyes:

Yes they do, which works out cheaper than the 20p i used to put in the air compressor at my local garage, every little helps :rotfl:
 

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