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TX-P46G15 or KDL-46W5500 worries :(

Scainer

Established Member
I would like specific advice on the Panny.
To start off with I have the Sony set up in my living room and for the most
part its excellent, but I have some issues with it......

- The lag/response means audio needs to be passed trough the tv before
hitting the amp, otherwise there are sync issues. Very minimal in game mode
but still there if not passed through.
- I have backlight bleed from the top corners when watching letterbox in a
dark room.

If it wasn't for the bleed issue I would be more than happy with the sony
but i fear that an exchanged set will have the same issue.



I am tempted to exchange for the G15, but i'm struggling to get over any
potential burn-in or image retention issues.
My uses / needs....

Mainly using a Humax 9200 freeview box via scart - SD viewing
(I might upgrade to the freeviewHD box for the upscaling when its out)
I like to watch movies SD upscaled, or BluRay via PS3
Have longish gaming sessions each week.

I'm about 9 foot from the screen, and Freesat has a bad signal due to house position.

QUESTIONS
1) Is the SD picture acceptable?
2) What is the burn-in / IR risk?


In relation to the burn-in / IR risk can you answer if applied to the following scenarios.

a) Playing Mass Effect 2 or any game with static image for 10 hours straight.
b) Watching letter box LOTR extended edition (4hours)
c) Watching back to back world cup games, in relation to the score/time display

I have read the burn-in/IR will always happen after about 2 hours, but upon changing the channel it will quickly remove itself. Is this true? Is so why do people say that todays plasmas don't suffer from it. Isn't this a contradiction?





At the end of the day i'm looking for advice so i don't regret my purchase.
The plasma offers many more positives but i'm worried over having ghost images distracting for lengthy times
 

airmyx

Established Member
QUESTIONS
1) Is the SD picture acceptable?
2) What is the burn-in / IR risk?


In relation to the burn-in / IR risk can you answer if applied to the following scenarios.

a) Playing Mass Effect 2 or any game with static image for 10 hours straight.
b) Watching letter box LOTR extended edition (4hours)
c) Watching back to back world cup games, in relation to the score/time display

I have read the burn-in/IR will always happen after about 2 hours, but upon changing the channel it will quickly remove itself. Is this true? Is so why do people say that todays plasmas don't suffer from it. Isn't this a contradiction?


SD @ 9ft on a 46 should look fine.


Generally speaking you shouldn't have any major issues with IR from black bars or game HUDS however...

Be careful with Mass Effect 2!

The first one was so gripping that I had thought I had permanently burned:

"SHEPARD
TALI IIIIIIIIII
GARRUS" IIIIIIIII

etc etc into my 2008 panasonic's screen by the end of it. I could only really see it when browsing on my Media Centre but it took AGES to go away. To be fair though, the game was 40 hours long and I used the TV for pretty much nothing else whilst I was playing it.

Its now finally gone but only after hours upon hours of normal viewing and many times leaving it on analog snow.

I'm going to make SURE I tear myself away every couple of hours for snow/freeview breaks if the sequel has the same static HUD.
 

airmyx

Established Member
I have read the burn-in/IR will always happen after about 2 hours, but upon changing the channel it will quickly remove itself. Is this true? Is so why do people say that todays plasmas don't suffer from it. Isn't this a contradiction?

It isn't a contradiction as IR and Burn are different problems.

It is quite difficult to actually 'burn in' a graphic on a modern Plasma TV. So difficult in fact that it is practically a non-issue with modern plasmas.

What is still there, however - is the possibility of very very long lasting IR. It's not permanent but looks that way in the short term. Panasonic screens are much less susceptable than LG or Samsung but play COD for 6 hours straight and you shouldn't expect the HUD to wash away quickly...
 

Scainer

Established Member
Thank you for your reply... round 2


Is IR still an issue if its been broken in for 200 hours?

Is the IR reason for LCD, a liveable annoyance, or is it not really that big a deal?

If watching a letterbox movie and it results in IR, can you just switch off the set or should you switch to tv for a while before powering off?



Would i regret getting a G15 over an LCD? :p
 

paulr2006

Distinguished Member
Firstly I think you would regret getting an LCD rather than the G15 :D & I say this coming from an excellent LCD.

IR is pretty much a none issue with Panasonic Plasma, if on the rare even that it does happen viewing a regular TV channel for a minute or two (Max) will was it away. As an example it is not rare for me to view two movies back to back, when I then switch off the BD player to a blank screen you can see a difference in shade where the bars have been, tune to an analogue channel with snow for 30 seconds & then back to the blank screen & it's uniform again, or go to a TV channel & view for a minute or so & again it's gone.
IR is really is not a problem :)

Oh & by the way, there is no need to break the TV in any more, confirmed by Panasonic.
 

paulr2006

Distinguished Member
Another concern....

What if i can only transport flat?
The journey would be 20 - 30 minutes of sunday driving.

It's not recommended as it is possible for the glass to break under it's own weight, that said lots have done it without problem. A better way would be to unpack it & stand it upright on the back seat with the panel facing the seat & secure it with pillows etc between the front seat & the back of the TV :)
 

airmyx

Established Member
IR is pretty much a none issue with Panasonic Plasma, if on the rare even that it does happen viewing a regular TV channel for a minute or two (Max) will was it away.

I too think the OP will regret getting an LCD over a G15 but IR is certainly not a 'non-issue' for some of the uses he is talking about.

Now channel logos and black bars, I agree - arn't really worth worrying about but if he plays Mass Effect or another static HUD game for "10 hours" with its pure white text/lines all over the place; the IR will be so bad that it wont wash away with a few casual minutes of Freeview at the end of the day. The G10 is not that much better than the PZ80 when it comes to IR.

I have friends who now own G/V10's (thanks to my advice!) but they say the same thing - that if you're a serious gamer, you have to be careful not to get too indulgent and think you can get away with uninterupted, massive static-hud gaming sessions...
 

Scainer

Established Member
I think if i did make the jump my scenarios where at the extreme end and unlikely to happen in reality.
I did try to watch LOTR back to back, but after the first chapter I just wanted to skip to the added extras.
Mass Effect 2 could be a bad one cos you can lose track of time but generally I get tired after 3 - 4 hours and have a break.
If i can do this with the newer panel and not worry about IR id be happy.



The biggest issue now is that i'm worried about getting the thing home.
I have measured the space in the car and the only way is to place it flat with the seats down. I need the box incase of return.
I have read that many people have done this without issues, but at the same time i have read of some people doing so for 5 minutes resulting in issues.
Surly the screens are better built now and have more tolerance.
 
M

milimero

Guest
Hi everyone,

I am currently hesitating between the two exact same models, but the more I look into it, the more confused I get.

In this thread, you seem to be very confident that the G15 is better... Could you tell me why you think this is?

Basically I read that both have an excellent image quality, but they have different drawbacks. For instance, I gather the following:

- the G15 would be less bright, SD upscaling is quite bad, you'd have to be careful with static images, it has high reflectance, and the settings can be frustrating (for instance, I read that with subtitles on the screen ratio is stuck to 16:9... is that true?). Also, as it is Plasma, it will loose brightness over time, although I don't know how long before it is noticeable...

- the W5500 would have some measure of lag (bad for fast-moving scenes), a very narrow viewing angle, maybe some clouding (although I read a few reviews saying they couldn't find any that wasn't due to the viewing angle)

Anything else?
 

Scainer

Established Member
The clouding isnt really an issue, and is only very minor. The back light bleed from the corners issue is annoying in dark situations.
The motion isn't really an issue but the lag when using a direct input of sound to an amp is a problem (unless you can add a delay)


I think the biggest issue with the plasma is the worry over IR, but many people say that if you go easy for the first few hundred hours it becomes a none issue.
If you can control the room light then reflections and brightness is also a none issue.
 
M

milimero

Guest
ok, thanks.

on another thread, a guy described getting read of backlight bleed by "very gently massaging" (i.e. cleaning) his screen. Have you tried that?

I would find the sound synch issue you mention more of a problem. I am quite sensitive to this (I have 2 movies where the sound is ever so slightly offset, and while my wife cannot understand what i am talking about, it irritates the hell out of me). Do you get this using hdmi switching in your receiver, or hdmi to your TV but SD sound to your receiver (as will be my case, my receiver being quite old...)?

A worry I have with the G15 is that in the avforums review, they say that if you put the subtitles on then the screen ratio is stuck to 16:9, which would be very bad for me, because I often watch TV with the kids around doing something else --the news, for instance, they don't watch *that*!!--, so if I want to understand what is being said, I must use subtitles... and I hate when the screen ratio deforms the image. Does anyone have some feedback on that?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Scainer

Established Member
If there is patchy backlight issues then this is a fault and an exchange is needed (maybe rubbing helps this), but the bleed issue after about an hour use is not fixable.
My AV system doesn't have HDMI, and the only fix for the slight lag would be if the AV receiver can add a time delay manually.

The TV is meant to do 5.1 through put but i have failed to do so.
You might want to head over to the w5500 owners thread for a long read :(


I think the subtitles would be a big issue if that is what you need, because you would need to learn to watch a stretched image, but as its only the news why would that matter?
 

isg530d

Standard Member
hi all,

all interesting stuff, was indeed going to collect one of these last sat when i read about transporting the beast.

So still not placed my order.

Has anyone got any comments of the freeview SD quality i keep seeing comments this is poor.

ian
 

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