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TX-36PD30D Progressive PAL Problem -> Ouch!

Discussion in 'TVs' started by FCP FAN, Jul 19, 2003.

  1. FCP FAN

    FCP FAN
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    Hi all,

    It seems that theres a problem with this set when displaying Pal Progressive input via component: (just got a pal progressive player)

    Theres a Lighter vertical bar on the right of the screen about 6cm wide:mad: :thumbsdow

    Akira seems to have this problem too so it must be the tv.

    Anyone knows how to fix this?

    Akira: you said that if you switched from 525P to 480P the problem would go away? how do you do that (i also have the Denon 2900)? in pal its allways 525P. Did you mean switching from Progressive to Interlaced? Or from Pal to Ntsc?
    If you have the Matrix dvd please report if theres any flikering in interlaced mode using component:confused:
    Please help!:(
    Arrrrrrrrgh!:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
     
  2. FCP FAN

    FCP FAN
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    Arrrrgh!
     
  3. andya

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    hi you posted this and there was no problem so whats the problem now
    The progressive Pal "problem" must be DVD player related since with a Nad T562 (the only one i have tested with progressive) there are no problems when feeding a pal progressive signal via component cable to this set
     
  4. kwangomango

    kwangomango
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    i think akira has a philips 963sa. This has the option of outputing everything as 480p, even for pal stuff.
     
  5. perka

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    If all players on the market (denon 3800, marantz 4300, philips 963sa and......)except the nad T562 have a problem with this TV, I would say it's the TV that is the main problem not the dvd.

    I have a denon 3800 and I don't want to sell it and buy a nad t562 with inferior PQ :confused: . I rather prefer to feed the pd30 with my 3800 and scart.

    per
     
  6. FCP FAN

    FCP FAN
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    Andya:
    I posted "The progressive Pal "problem" must be DVD player related since with a Nad T562 (the only one i have tested with progressive) there are no problems when feeding a pal progressive signal via component cable to this set" but after having problems with a Denon 2900. I tested again the Nad and this is how it is:
    With the denon theres a lighter translucid vertical bar at the right of the screen. I tested with the Nad T562 and surprise surprise: the problem is there but its "different" its more subtle (hence i didnt noticed before because you have to stand near the tv, about 20cm,) the tv displays like a net pattern on the right side of the screeen.

    So now im sure its a tv problem, not a dvd problem.

    Anybody got a 36PD30D with progressive working fine?

    :confused:
     
  7. GadgetObsessed

    GadgetObsessed
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    Have you tried Panasonic themselves? Fingers crossed maybe there is a fix in the service menu.

    Dow! I have waited ages for a TV that has PAL ps, 2 RGB scarts and isn't butt ugly and then it turns out the set has problems with PAL ps!

    Maybe this is inevitable at this stage. As I understand it the PAL ps standard has only just been agreed. Maybe PAL ps products at the moment were designed before the standard finalised. Given that the TV is so new I'm hoping that the TV meets the standard and it is the current batch of DVD players that do not.

    Maybe I should wait until the new JVC DVD-RAM/DRD-RW recorder with PAL ps is out in Oct. My current plan is to buy one of these and a 36PD30. Probably best to wait and see if they are compatible.

    Overall would you say that this was a deal breaker for this set? (In one of your other messages you said that the interlaced picture with acuity enhancement was really good.) For me, most of my viewing is via Sky+ and I dont even own a PAL ps DVD yet so if the TV is very good at everything else this bug would have a relatively small impact. Of course I can understand expecting a set to be perfect given you have paid £1,500 to £2,000 for it.
     
  8. FCP FAN

    FCP FAN
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    Garydhooper :

    The interlaced picture with Acuity is really good, BUT :rolleyes:,
    after seeing Pal Prog Scan using the Denon, i was blown away by both the picture quality (best i ever seen - apart from a Barco 9" CRT Front Projector+DVD A-1) and the bug.

    So if you don´t own a Pal Ps DVD it wouldn´t be a deal breaker, but these days it doesn´t make sense buying an expensive 36" set withou PAL Ps. And for sure in the future you will trade your current dvd player for 1 with Progressive Scan.

    Im waiting to get this set serviced by Panasonic, until them i hold my breath.:rolleyes:

    I never expected this set to be perfect, (mainly bescause a bad experience with a Tosh 36ZD26P) but given the price i paid this kind of bug is laughable.:thumbsdow :thumbsdow

    Why advertise a feature thats doesn´t work properly? (it seems that everyone that has this set has this problem)???
    :mad:
    I really hope to solve this when the Panasonic engineer repairs it;
    Until then....:( :nono:
     
  9. GadgetObsessed

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    FCP FAN

    You are totally right. There was a reason I had been waiting for a TV with PAL ps so it would seem a little stupid to wait this long and then buy a set that had PAL ps that didn't work.

    Please let us know how you get on with the Panny engineer. When is he due to visit? I'll happily buy the set if it can be fixed in some way.

    P.S. What is the picture like with Sky/digital terrestrial?
     
  10. andya

    andya
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    i wait the engineers reply hopefully something can be done
     
  11. FCP FAN

    FCP FAN
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    I have e-mailed Panasonic and still wait for a reply. Meanwhile i have contacted the 2 local Panasonic support labs.
    I´ve talked to the engineer in the lab, and... he didn´t had a clue what i was talking about!:suicide: . I asked if he could check with the headquarters , so i called the day after to hear any news. He said "that must be the digital processing module":rolleyes: - obviosly he thinks the "Progressive Scan" feature i refer to is the tv inner processing feature.:thumbsdow
    (This after i explained various times what Pal Progressive Input via component cable was)
    By the way how he is supposed to test the tv for Progressive Pal input if Panasonic doesn´t have any player capable of it? :confused:

    Im getting really disappointed and with little hope in solving this:mad:

    Im waiting to hear from Panasonic, and they better don´t give one of those "contact your Dvd Player manufacturer" answers....
     
  12. GadgetObsessed

    GadgetObsessed
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    FCP FAN

    Your story on this is pretty depressing. Surely Panasonic must have tested PS input with at least one (non-Panasonic) DVD player before releasing the set. As you say this is one of the sets main features.

    If you cannot get a fix then I will not buy one of these - I'll probably end up spending twice as much on the new integrated 37" Panny plasma instead.
     
  13. andya

    andya
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    i know what u mean a company the size of panasonic and they may have got it wrong on one of the most important parts of the set.im going the loewe mimo route and getting the hitachi 400e plasma.play my consoles on the mimo and everything else on the plasma.will wait a week to see if the panasonic issues are sorted dont hold much hope
     
  14. GadgetObsessed

    GadgetObsessed
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    I just emailed Panasonic about this PAL progressive scan issue and if there were any compatible DVD players, or if there was any fix. This was their depressing reply:

    Thank you for your e-mail enquiry.

    In response, I would explain that this TV set is only designed to receive an NTSC progressive scan input.

    I trust that the above information will be of assistance to you. However, of course, if you should have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us on 08705 357357 or customer.care@panasonic.co.uk and we will
    endeavour to assist.

    Customer Support
     
  15. shawkins002

    shawkins002
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    What a load of rubbish they talk sometimes. The TV was sold to me by a Panasonic dealer who assured me that it was capable of PAL progressive - if it wasn't, wouldn't it just show a blank/blue screen like some of the NTSC only Tosh's?

    I hope panasonic aren't backtracking having found a problem with PAL prog. Problem is, there is nothing in print from them which says it can do pal prog - only "DVD Progressive input". Doesn't say anything about NTSC only though either.

    I hope this isn't the achilles heel in what I think is a great TV, as I haven't tried Pal prog yet, but was one of the reasons I bought it.
     
  16. sjgill

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    I just called Panasonic Customer Care and they confirmed to me that it is only NTSC progressive scan...

    All stock at the moment is ordered but there should be some stock of this set coming free in about 2 weeks time.
     
  17. FCP FAN

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    That´s Panasonic bulls**t! :mad: The set is sold as being Pal Progressive.

    By the way, the problem is exactly the same in NTSC Progressive Scan so Panasonic is NOT getting of the hook with that LAME excuse!:eek:
     
  18. GadgetObsessed

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    I sent an email to Panasonic saying that the set was being sold as a PAL ps set and that it seemed strange that it almost worked with PAL ps. Here is the response:

    ==============================
    Dear Mr Hooper,

    The TV will accept a PAL signal however Progressive Scan is a system which is geared for NTSC. Due to the low line structure of an NTSC system which has no phase lock on colour NTSC progressive scan can significantly improve picture quality.

    However PAL already has 625 lines and phase lock on colour and Progressive Scan provides little improvement.
    ===========================

    FCP Fan - are you saying that you get the same problem when outputing NTSC progressive (i.e. 480p)? Are you getting anywhere on getting a fix?
     
  19. FCP FAN

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    Yes the problem is the same both in PAL and NTSC.

    I´m waiting for a reply to an e-mail i sent to Panasonic.

    I will wait a week or so before doing the next logical thing...
     
  20. andya

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    definetly not going to buy this set
     
  21. FCP FAN

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    Good News :D

    Hi have solved my set problem!! (well, at least to acceptable standards).

    So here it goes:

    Well, after find out how to acess the service mode 1 http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=80690 (don´t know if the set has others...) i managed to center the image horizontally (H-Pos) and adjusted Horizontal Amplitude (H-Amp) so the translucid bar now is not visible :)
    Thats 95% the problem solved...

    Now I the picture has the horizontal "correct" aspect and centering and no translucid bar....
    however....
    The same subtle "net pattern" i detected when using a Nad T562 in progresive Pal(and NTSC) is there in some spots where the bar was. this is only visible at 20cm of the screen so no worries
    :smoke: (is this being really picky or what?).
    There was a feature called "H-DAF Phase" on the service menu that seemed to correct this but when doing so, the net pattern spots appeared on the left of the screen, and since i dont knew what its supposed to do, i left it alone. :lesson:
    I don´t know how to acces the Denon Dvd service mode, maybe doing that this it could be corrected.

    So for the time being im really pleased with this and will now proceed to watching movies relantelessly (is that spelled correctly?)


    Cheers all, and thanks for the help guys!!

    P.S. still havent heard from Panasonic about the e-mail i sent.
     
  22. Radiohead

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    A brand-new state-of-the-art set and people are already having to go into the service menu to make changes.

    Not a good sign IMO.
     
  23. GadgetObsessed

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    Excellent news FCP Fan.

    Do you mind if I pass this info on to the techie that I have been emailing at Panasonic?

    Off to show the wife this set at the weekend. I know that some people have been saying that the Loewe Mimo is better at 32" but I have not seen a better 36" set.
     
  24. FCP FAN

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    Go ahead! no Worries.

    Well i also considered the mimo but in the end size does matter :p so i went the 36" way.

    P.S. Try Pal Prog Scan before buy.

    P.S. - 2 - : I entered the service mode with: AV4C(component) selected and the dvd outputing Progressive Pal. The modifications i did only altered the progressive input. Even Component interlaced remained unaltered.

    Cheers...
    :)
     
  25. kwangomango

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    Have you had another demo then Gary? I thought that you weren't that impressed last time. I went to purchase my Mimo last night and had yet another look at a 36 PD30 on Tot Court Road. They had an excellent aerial feed on the tvs in the shop. Yet again i was not impressed with the colouring of the picture - it appears quite dark and dull when compared with the Philips and Sony sets they had. Anyway it's all just a matter of preference at the end of the day. The set is just not for me.
    Had a Mimo demo again and was gobsmacked. Played Chapter 20 of Spiderman (the Macy Gray scene) and the opening scene of Lord of the Rings. My jaw literally hit the floor. I just didn't get the same impact with the same demos on the pd30.
    Glad to see some progress has been made with the PAL prog bug. I agree though that it silly that service menu changes are required on abrand new model.
     
  26. andya

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    im getting the mimo instead of the pd30 and ive got a dvd player with progressive and vga and guess what it works on the mimo:p
     
  27. GadgetObsessed

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    kwangomango - Did you see the 36PD30 in Shasonic on TCR? (Half way between TCR and Goodge St tube on right hand side as you come from TCR tube.) If so, when I saw it is was connected to a Hauppague Freeview box via composite so I wasn't sure how good a test this was. They did connect it directly via arial as well but as I don't even use analogue again it wasn't a good test for me.

    I looked at the Loewes as well but I really want a 36" set.

    I have also considered:
    New Philips Pixel+ 2 (picture looked good but I'm vary wary of P+ after horrific demos of digital artifacts on movement on first P+ sets) The Philips and Loewes do seem to have a very rich colourful picture but to me the colour looks too rich and therefore unrealistic. Big and wide.
    Toshiba PF2 - picture pretty good. Only one RGB scart! Concerns about it being ugly (to my eyes) and all the reliability issues posted here.
    Sony 36FS76 - I like the 4x resolution of the DRC (without the P+ woes) but I really notice it flickering in this 50Hz mode. 100Hz DRC is only half as sharp. Lack of component connection. Big and wide.

    One deciding factor is that aesthetically the Panny is by far the most wife friendly.

    I don't think that I can comment on the Panny picture quality until I have seen it demoed properly. I am wondering if there is any way I can take my Sky+ into the store and get it to play a recording while not connected to a satellite dish.
     
  28. Badger

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    Do you really mean you have a PS player with VGA that is confirmed as working with the Loewe card, or are you just refering to an HTPC ?

    I tried a Nintaus player with VGA output but my Aconda wouldn't sync to it (NTSC PS) ? How does the player get round the VGA card scaling issues ?

    Phil
     
  29. perka

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    Just to add to the record.

    Tested my denon dvd 3800 with the pd30 and the component inputs.

    Works great with Reg 1 dvds in both interlaced and progressive mode.

    I have the white field on the right side with Reg 2 dvds in both interlaced and progressive mode.


    per
     

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