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Two years happy motoring for £.......

LV426

Administrator
Staff member
I'm upgrading our Ioniq for a new model. I have had the existing one for 2 years and gone just shy of 19000 miles in it. It replaced a diesel SUV which was 12 years old and consistently did about 36/37 mpg.

So, for the last two years I have been using a much more modern (in terms of "bells and whistles") vehicle; onboard SatNav/GPS, automatic this that and the other, warnings, sensors and so on - oh and an audio system that won't play discs or cassettes (which is all the old one would do!) To say nothing of the much more enjoyable and easy driving experience.

Here is a man-maths calculation of how much it has cost me to enjoy this upgrade for the two years. I'm doing this now only because I know with certainty what the car is worth as a trade in.

Cost of 2017 car
24850​
outright cash purchase
Sale of old diesel car
-1700​
private sale
Trade in value of 2017 car
-20000​
Perfectly fair valuation according to Parkers online
19000 miles of Diesel not used
-2444​
Estimate based on the last 19k miles in the SUV before getting the Ioniq
Cost of power used
365​
Includes domestic charges, plus parking costs where unavoidable to obtain a charge
Car Tax not paid
-550​
Guesstimate based on current rate for the old diesel £300 pa. Ioniq = 0
Net Cost of using the Ioniq vs. the old SUV over two years
521

I have not accounted for differing service costs since it's too much of an unknown quantity. But there's probably another negative number to go in there.
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member
To make a fair comparison you need to adjust the additional cost for the electric model. I have been offered a top spec hybrid model ioniq last month for £19,950, so adding the £4900 premium for the electric model.
For example, the Kia Niro hybrid is £10,000 cheaper than the electric Niro. It is a significant cost and should be included when comparing EVs to ICE, especially when a petrol/hybrid/diesel equivalent is available.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
No he doesn't. He's done a directish comparison between the estimated costs of keeping his old car and running the EV. It's cost him more to run the EV, but not a lot.

We could have PCP'd an ICE Nissan for much less than the cost of the Leaf and for the low mileage we have done would have saved thousands. LV426 has all but broken even over getting the ICE equivalent.
 

LV426

Administrator
Staff member
To make a fair comparison you need to adjust the additional cost for the electric model.
I'm not sure I understand that. My calculation is based solely on the decision I made to replace my old diesel with a specific EV. I'm not trying to estimate what it might/would have cost if I had chosen something else.
The electric car I chose cost exactly £24850 to buy and is now worth exactly £20000. Hence that car on its own has cost exactly £4850 in depreciation. Base figure, adjusted (as above) by changed running costs, esp. in fuel (but also road tax) vs. keeping the old diesel. If I was being really pedantic, I'd have estimated service costs for the diesel (not spent, so deduct), additional depreciation on the diesel (no idea, but deduct), added the one service cost for the EV last year, and accounted for the interest I didn't earn on the £25k. And any difference in insurance premium. These are the only other factors I can think of. Doesn't matter I could have chosen a different (model or spec) of EV - I can't know precisely how much that would have cost whether in depreciation or power use or other.
 

gangzoom

Well-known Member
To make a fair comparison you need to adjust the additional cost for the electric model.
Am loving your man maths as thats what I used to jusify our EV. The closest equivalent combustion car to our SUV interms of size and speed is a SQ7, which happens to cost virtually the same £76K for ours with options versus £78K for the SQ7with options.

At 3 years old deprecation on both cars are also very similar though the X is edging ahead by about £5K.

But the a big 7 seater SUV that can hit 60mph in sub 5 seconds drinks fuel, even a diesel one, 24mpg real life mpg on a SQ7, at 40K £9800 in fuel costs, servicing wouldn't be cheap either £500 wouldn't be unreasonable, so £1.5K over 3 years, road tax for a 2017 car is £465 per year so £1395.

That compares to 4p per mile (rounded up) fuel cost on the X so £1600 for fuel costs, £50 service cost in 3 years/40k for x2 air filters, £0 VED, so £10k+ of running cost savings in just 3 years compared to a like for like combustion car, and closer to £15k including depreciation difference.

As the years go on that saving is just going to grow, especially as cities start banning diesels which will slam deprecation on effected cars. No brainer to go for an EV if your in the market for a SUV with half decent performance :).
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member
Am loving your man maths as thats what I used to jusify our EV. The closest equivalent combustion car to our SUV interms of size and speed is a SQ7, which happens to cost virtually the same £76K for ours with options versus £78K for the SQ7with options.

At 3 years old deprecation on both cars are also very similar though the X is edging ahead by about £5K.

But the a big 7 seater SUV that can hit 60mph in sub 5 seconds drinks fuel, even a diesel one, 24mpg real life mpg on a SQ7, at 40K £9800 in fuel costs, servicing wouldn't be cheap either £500 wouldn't be unreasonable, so £1.5K over 3 years, road tax for a 2017 car is £465 per year so £1395.

That compares to 4p per mile (rounded up) fuel cost on the X so £1600 for fuel costs, £50 service cost in 3 years/40k for x2 air filters, £0 VED, so £10k+ of running cost savings in just 3 years compared to a like for like combustion car, and closer to £15k including depreciation difference.

As the years go on that saving is just going to grow, especially as cities start banning diesels which will slam deprecation on effected cars. No brainer to go for an EV if your in the market for a SUV with half decent performance :).
Agree. But your situation is unique. Not many people can afford a £80k car.
As mentioned the Kia niro hybrid is £10k cheaper (and available now) compared to the electric equivalent. On that basis, the EV model will need you to be driving substantial mileage (or congestion zone use) to make up the difference.
 

lovegroova

Well-known Member
You'd also need to factor in the cost of interest/finding £24k to purchase the car in the first place. Obviously, I have no idea how you funded it.
 

LV426

Administrator
Staff member
@lovegroova
Cash. (I did mention it in my "not accounted for" paragraph). The money was in an investment fund which, in fact, has lost a miniscule amount in the two years since I withdrew the car money. So, in actual practice, in my case, nil or less than nil.
Neither have I covered the cost of fixing an MOT failure that I know to have occurred to the diesel after I parted with it (which I would have incurred, had I kept it) - because I don't know what it would have cost.

As mentioned the Kia niro hybrid is £10k cheaper (and available now) compared to the electric equivalent. On that basis, the EV model will need you to be driving substantial mileage (or congestion zone use) to make up the difference.
Right - but my comparison on cost was based on the car I had vs. the car I bought i.e. keep the old one vs. buy that specific new one. That is all. So any consideration of a different car isn't material here.
If one were to try to do a similar calculation based on a hypothetical alternative (such as a hybrid) one would have to estimate
a) that car's depreciation
b) that car's fuel cost
etc. The difference in cost is not £10k. That is just the difference in upfront cost. The true difference in cost of ownership/use is this sum
Cash cost of more expensive car
minus
Cash cost of cheaper car
plus
running costs of cheaper car (fuel, tax, insurance, whatever)
minus
running costs of more expensive car (ditto)
plus
valuation of more expensive car (over a given period - 2 years in my case)
minus
valuation of cheaper car (over the same period)
etc...
In my case, the cheaper car was the old diesel (i.e. keep it).
 
Last edited:

lovegroova

Well-known Member
Thanks for clarifying.

The main moral of this story is that, if you want to save money on motoring, a low depreciating car is more important than the method of propulsion.

At the moment, many EVs have low depreciation, but I'd expect this to change as they become more widespread.
 

LV426

Administrator
Staff member
Yes - but fuel cost played a fairly large part in the calculation as well. Depreciation 4850. Fuel cost saving >£2000.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
Loving the man maths :) They are always the correct ones!

Ps. You should have driven more miles so go it into a big profit situation and got paid for driving the Ioniq 😂
 

bardel

Well-known Member
Interesting feedback.

Other thing that appears not to have been mentioned (and I realise that you cannot financially qualify it), is warranty / breakdown / piece of mind / nice new vehicle.

Presumably your shiny new vehicle had a warranty for the duration of ownership, so no risk of any repair costs, usually new vehicles come with breakdown cover too?

Then there's the less tangible elements of peace of mind (my nice new car should be more reliable in getting me to work every day without breaking down in the middle of nowhere) as well as the smile factor of driving a newer vehicle?

Even if it has cost £521 more over 24 months (a little over £20 per month), that's got to be worth it for those unquantified items above easily?
 

Jonno1

Active Member
How is it for insurance costs compared to the old vehicle? I know they can't compare but just an indication would be useful.
 

ashenfie

Well-known Member
To be honest trying to justify on cost is fairly pointless in my case.
20k 2nd Hand Bmw 320d a few years ago . Leather seats the lot. 0 rated tax. Right now not going to get a equivalent electric for anything under 35k.

so will wait to see all the new electric cars that come out next year from merc/Tesla etc. Tesla Y looks interesting.

Give it fives Years and the prices will tumble second viable.
 

LV426

Administrator
Staff member
How is it for insurance costs compared to the old vehicle? I know they can't compare but just an indication would be useful.
In my case, just a tiny bit less. I don't know precisely since I can't compare like-for-like; different year = different premium; plus for the last few months of owning the diesel, we also had the EV, and two cars available (and insured with the same insurer) reduces premium on one of them. Not a big enough difference to shout about, though. Interesting perhaps to note the small reduction, given that the potential write-off value had gone up from £1500 or so, to £25k.
 

Jonno1

Active Member
In my case, just a tiny bit less. I don't know precisely since I can't compare like-for-like; different year = different premium; plus for the last few months of owning the diesel, we also had the EV, and two cars available (and insured with the same insurer) reduces premium on one of them. Not a big enough difference to shout about, though. Interesting perhaps to note the small reduction, given that the potential write-off value had gone up from £1500 or so, to £25k.
Hi LV246

I have heard stories (whether true or not I don't know) that insurance premioums are rather high for EV's because they are new to the market and might wipe out any savings to be made. This all might be heresay with "a man in the pub said...." syndrome. Hopefully, your experience is the accurate one. None of us will know until we get an actual quote. Unfortunately, the insurance companies I've come across need a registration number otherwise they won't quote as they class it too speculative otherwise.
 

LV426

Administrator
Staff member
My Ioniq = £237 with legal and 9 yrs NCD protected and £400XS. 10k miles pa estimated. Existing insurer (so, not a new customer discount).
 

neilball

Well-known Member
We’ve had both a Nissan Leaf Tekna and a Soul EV, and both have been cheaper to insure than the ICE vehicles before them (substantially cheaper/lower spec vehicles). Even adding our 17 year old onto the policy for the EV has not been too ridiculous compared to others with ICE cars we know. So I think it probably is “man-in-the-pub” hearsay regarding EV insurance being very high compared to a similar ICE model.
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member
My Ioniq = £237 with legal and 9 yrs NCD protected and £400XS. 10k miles pa estimated. Existing insurer (so, not a new customer discount).
Move to Manchester and your insurance will kindly add another 0 to that figure.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
We’ve had both a Nissan Leaf Tekna and a Soul EV, and both have been cheaper to insure than the ICE vehicles before them (substantially cheaper/lower spec vehicles). Even adding our 17 year old onto the policy for the EV has not been too ridiculous compared to others with ICE cars we know. So I think it probably is “man-in-the-pub” hearsay regarding EV insurance being very high compared to a similar ICE model.
Could it not be a case of that the substantially cheaper lower spec cars you had didn't have as many safety features on the car ;)

I mean my VW Golf R was only £126 after Quidco cashback. And our Mercedes-AMG GLC43 was only £276. Both were laden with safety features though and made it near impossible to drive into anyone or anything even if we tried.
 

Jonno1

Active Member
Thanks everyone for your answers. Yes, it can be a bit of a postcode lottery with car insurance. I'm reassured that EV's most likely won't have sky high insurance costs, wiping out any potential savings to be made.
 

Jules Tohpipi

Active Member
Looking at the OP's mathematical framework on this topic, it's a pity he didn't have a Bugatti Veyron to sell (rather than a diesel SUV). Then he would be a million pounds in profit on the deal!
:D
 

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