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Two Towers Sound vs LOTR:EE

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by grey torq, Aug 28, 2003.

  1. grey torq

    grey torq
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    Yesterday I watched my copy of FOTR:EE (R2) DTS ES followed by the Two Towers (R1)DD Ex which just arrived.

    One of the things that really struck me was that the sound on the Two Towers was superb, really perfect full exiting atmospheric with bags of impact when needed. This led me back to my initial disappointment with the sound on the LOTR:EE I have since gifted my original theatrical DVD at christmas to a relative but remember that it had more atmosphere, there seems to be something missing in the sound of LOTR:EE.

    Having thought about it the difference I am hearing is most likely the dynamic range - the EE's 'specially remixed sound for DVD' seems to equalise the dynamic range, just like the compression switch you can choose on your decoder.

    I would warn anyone awaiting the definitive edition of the two towers, that the soundtrack may suffer the same fate and have the life sucked out of it.

    I listen quite loud at -7db on my Denon 3803 so obviously if you listen without trying to create the full cinema effect this won't bother you.

    Torc
     
  2. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    Do you have your LOTR:EE as region1 or region2, as I believe there are some issues with the sound on the region2 version - pitch correction amongst others to counter the 4% Pal speedup.

    This may account for the difference you describe.
     
  3. grey torq

    grey torq
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    That could be it, although I wouldn't want to fork out for the R1 copy of FOTR:EE without being certain.

    So I'll wait for R1 TT:EE as I want to see the extra 43 mins and all the xtras anyway and compare the sound against the one I've got.

    Torq
     
  4. higenbs1

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    Definately agree with this post. I found the DD sound on the original version of FOTR to be slightly more dynamic than either the DD or DTS-ES tracks on the FOTR Extended Edition. Same with the Two Towers
     
  5. puddleduck

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    Definately agree with this post. I found the DD sound on the original version of FOTR to be slightly more dynamic than either the DD or DTS-ES tracks on the FOTR Extended Edition.

    I agree with that - the DTS-ES version of the FOTR:EE version is rubbish - the Sauran explosion at the begining just lacks the impact of the version on the original DVD.

    I actually prefer the R2 original PQ as well to the R1 FOTR:EE - on my setup at least the extra PAL resolution actually seems to make a difference for a change....
     
  6. Smurfin

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    Can't agree there. Yes the Sauron explosion lacks a little impact, but overall the dts mix is improved over the dd.

    Anyone who knows me will know I STRONGLY agrue for the fact that dts isn't better than dd (just had to get that one in:D ). But the problem with the R1 DD version is that the LFE is overblown to the point of it being fatigueing. And before anyone tells me my sub isn't set up properly...it is.

    LOTR EE dts is quite the opposite of "rubbish". Sadly people tend to equate more LFE = better soundtrack. And that isn't true.
     
  7. grey torq

    grey torq
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    With respect I disagree I don't think the r1 TT theatrical release sounds better because it is DD rather than DTS or because I prefer overblown LFE - the LFE is not overblown.

    I am talking about fidelity and dynamic range which are lacking from both DD & DTS tracks on the FOTR EE when directly compared with the new TT dvd. The sound track feels more atmospheric and involving giving real scale and impact when appropriate even soft and subtle sounds are more natural as are the voices - if you can't hear the difference fair enough, but to my ears the quality of the sound on FOTR EE is below par which is a shame because it ought to be as good as Saving Private Ryan DTS or Pitch Black DTS and it isn't even as good as it's initial 2 disk release. I suspect that remixing DVD for home listening has somehow compromised the fidelity & dynamic range.

    If the R2 FOTR EE is a duffer then that would explain it but as I say I'll wait till November to see how R1 TT EE sounds.

    Have you watched the R1 TT dvd ? Do you think it has overblown LFE?

    Torq
     
  8. cameronl

    cameronl
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    I have the R1 of LOTR EE and thought the DTS-ES sound was fantastic.....the mass battle scene at the start had real life. I found the R2 of TTT to be not as loud and far more even - great for evening watching in my apartment but it didn't exactly blow me away like the first one did.

    IMO anyway :)

    CaM
     
  9. hamtaro

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    i also found reg 1 two towers not as loud as fellowship.
     
  10. mick23

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    hi all i have lotr r2 bog standard 2 disc vertion, and hired ttr2, ill admit to being slightly deaf in left ear, but i found with lotr what really has spoiled it for me originally regardless of what format i watched film in, dd,vcr sky.

    was the inaudabilty of speech , in places

    i and others (there were about 70 posts on this issue) with the first disk, in lotr regardless of volume of center etc i found that i could not hear clearly in certain places what was being said,if you turned up volume you were "blown"away by the effects.

    so i hired tt r2 turned up center before watching in dd, and found in general that dialogue was very quite in places, especial frodos companion,gollum, and the actress with long blond hair,

    prior/during the battle of helms deep where they pummel the door with treetrunck this sound effect to me was fairly lound, (sub was not used with tt viewing) if amp left at same volume at the end where gollum was talking could not hear anything whatsoever.

    do not know whether a r1 lotr/or tt suffers from this issue, (i have no r1 capability with dvd)


    i have not had this problem of "to low dialogue output etc" with any other dvd i have ever viewed.

    to those who have watched at cinema ,at home and dialogue was audable all the way through film, must have very sore ears??/

    i enjoyed tt apart from not being able to hear speech in certain parts of film.

    thank you
     
  11. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    mick23, whether there are problems with the dialogue is not simply down to the volume of the centre speaker. Have you used an SPL meter to calibrate your system? Many people will often have the rears too loud, which in a surround busy soundtrack like LOTR can affect things too.

    Unless you calibrate with an SPL meter you have no idea how close or far off your levels are (and before anyone says it, in this case ears aren't reliable).

    Also, it depends on the volume of your sub: if you're playing close to reference level, and your sub is either a. not that good and/or b. not integrated well into your system then the bass will likely be distorted and overblown, and can swamp other channels.

    All of these things can have an effect.

    I don't remember there being any posts on this, although there may well have been a problem. All I can say is that on my (calibrated) system I had no problems with any of the dialogue.
     
  12. mick23

    mick23
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    thanks smurfin all levels were set with spl ,i did not use sub to view the t/towers, i purpusly set center channel higher than spl level with tt, to increase volume of dialogue.

    with r2 lotr there was a post entitled something like (lotr sound quality poo) cannot find thread though, if in r2 you increase center channel to make dialogue louder, the way film soundtrack is produced dialogue and effects are mixed in with center channel, so increasing center volume for speech aklso increases effects, so it seems you cannot just raise volume of dialogue on its own.

    i tried with lotr r2 center channel only, all other speakers disconected to veryfi this at the time.

    i suspect r2 tt has simular mix .
    thank you.
     
  13. mooky

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    I have to agree to being disappointed with the LOTR EE R2 disk. I recently entered the home cinema fray and immediately tried this disk. First I was concerned at home much bass was in the film. Too much for my liking and I ended up turning the sub down. I then found that in places the dialog was almost inaudible. The DTS ES track seemed better that the DD however.

    I was about to redo the settings for the speakers etc. when I decided to try another disk. This time I used the R2 Gladiator DTS track. What a difference. Much more dynamic. A load more use of the rear speakers giving a much more involving sound and the bass was clear loud but not overbaring. I've come to the conclusion that my system is setup ok, but that the LOTR is just a poor sound track compared to such disks as Gladiator.

    Mark.
     
  14. PaulBoy

    PaulBoy
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    I rate my R1 LOTR EE DTS-ES as the best sounding disc I own
    TTT DD-EX has a great soundtrack but is not IMHO in the same league - maybe it is me but LOTR just seemed to have so many excellent opportunities for great sound "moments" if that's the right word [like when Gandalf gets arsey with Bilbo and his booming voice moves round behind you] There are loads of such moments on LOTR but I cant think of many on TTT - To be fair I have watched LOTR dozens of times & TTT once but that's my honest opinion so far ... Paul ;)
     
  15. mick23

    mick23
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    played r2 ttt towers saterday night ,having neibours with young children ,was trying to keep volume at very modest levels,,,recalibrated sunday with spl and tried ttt again mainly helms deep scenes, found effects ok , where there is dialogue only in places its nearly inaudable, do not know wether r1 discs are the same though.

    i have no trouble with hearing dialogue with r2 gladiater,seven etc regardless of volume settings.
     
  16. Gatto

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    The DTS ES on the r2 copy seems good to me, but haven't compared it with the Region 1 Specs
     
  17. grey torq

    grey torq
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    Wow, never thought so many people had opinions on this.

    I have to agree with the Gladiator comparison having watched it recently, if you really do think FOTR EE R2 is a reference for excellent sound then please listen to Gladiator and some of the other widely recommended DTS soundtracks particularly from Dreamworks. There is a marked difference in quality.

    Again I reserve judgement on R1 FOTR EE as I have never heard it.

    Torq
     
  18. PaulBoy

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    Torq ... I have Gladiator & many other reference quality discs like Pte Ryan et al & I still consider FOTR EE [R1] the best
    Just my opinion & as someone said its interesting that so many have different ones on this subject ... Paul ;)
     
  19. grey torq

    grey torq
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    Paul,

    From what you say I am more than a little suspicious that there is a real difference between the R1 & R2 copies of FOTR EE in terms of sound, but I doubt anyone here is in a position to make a back to back comparison - as if yoiu owned one why would you have a copy of the other.

    Torq
     
  20. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    I should be able to make a direct comparison in a few days when I get my multi-region DVD player back.

    I'm at home at the moment where my Mum has the R2 FOTR:EE, whilst I have R1. My setups not up to much but I should be able to get half an idea.
     

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