TW7100 vs TW9400... So obvious? Maybe not.

[CalabiYau]

Hello

I am considering to buy a new projector in a near future. I have 2 candidates as my budget is under 2500eur, TW7100 and TW9400.

I realize that TW9400 is far better than the TW7100 but when I think of my non-ideal room and conditions I am not sure if it the obvious choice.

So before answering TW9400, please read these considerations!

1., Semi treated room. White celing/walls but first 2m of ceiling/side walls treated with black velvet. Some non treated furniture. Opposite screen wall is white although reflected is dim compared to the treated walls (quite far).
I am not sure how this semi treated room will affect the much better native contrast of the TW9400:
I have some measurements:

Test Epson EH-TW7100 : l’avis de Grégory – – Le Blog de PHC –
Test EPSON EH-TW9400 : l’avis de Grégory – – Le Blog de PHC –

Which are around 1500 for TW7100 and around 4000 for TW9400. Huge difference in a batcave. But what do you think for a semi treated room like mine?

2. Screen size around 150” for 16/9 and 158” for 2.35 (pending to decide). Throw distance from lens to screen is 475cm. View distance is around 450cm. My screen (a pristine white wall) is 370cm wide, but I can’t get this size with a 475cm throw ratio.
A nice feature of the TW9400 is lens memory. I could have 2 different screen sizes for 16/9 and 2.35. But actually the result is not extremely different.

For TW7100 I could have one screen size 330cm wide for both 16/9 and 2.35 (even the lens could go wider, tower speakers are reducing 20cm at each side so 370-40=330cm max)

For TW9400 I could have the same 330cm for 16/9 (same speaker problem), but then for 2.35 I could go wider as the speakers will fall into black bars. Unfortunately I can’t get 370cm due to the zoom limit. It would be around 350cm for 475cm lens distance.

So, even though the TW9400 theoretically can have a wider 2.35 the actual difference is not huge (350 vs 330cm).

3. Color precision. TW9400 has better color management probably. But some caveats. First, color filter is 100% discarded as my screen is around 150 inches so I can’t give up so many lumens. Second thing to consider is that I don’t plan to do a pro calibration (although in a future I could consider it). My starting point would be an approximate calibration following the millions of examples that are in the internet.

Therefore, the massive advantages of the TW9400 are somehow weakened:

Real contrast probably won’t be 4000 vs 1500
Motorized lens will deliver a real increment of 350vs330 in 2.35 and 0 in 16/9). No more.
Color not calibrated and without filter.

Some other points to consider where the TW7100 has an edge:

1. TW7100 has slightly more lumens (around 200 lumen in each mode/calibration according projectorcentral.com measurements). As my screen will be quite big, maybe this lumens could deliver a better HDR image.
2. Small footprint. The TW9400 is gigantic. It is a non dedicated living room, so it is not entirely free. I wouldn’t discard the TW9400 because of the size but obviously if their strengths are minimal, then this huge black device in a multi purpose living room is not very appealing.
3. Price: An interesting point. Normal prices are 1800eur for TW7100 and 2800eur for TW9400. My idea is waiting for the next sale offer. It happens from time to time, TW7100 at around 1400, and TW9400 around 2350.

But last time, TW9400 was reduced but TW7100 not. In that case 1800 vs 2350 is probably clear that I’d buy the TW9400 even if their strengths are diluted.

But I am not sure if the price is 1400 vs 2350, what should I do.

In case of a TW9400 I should add a new projector mount as my Vogels only supports up to 10Kg. The low profile Epson one is around 130eur that should be added to the 2350eur...

What are your thoughts? I honestly think that the TW9400 answer is not as clear in this case after reading my compromises, isn’t it?

BTW, my main source is ATV4K. No Bluerays...

Thanks!!

 

[Peter Parker]

A 'bad' room only affects ANSI contrast, not on/off, so I wouldn't let a bad room stop me from buying a high on/off projector because I would still see the benefit of that

Here you can see a good example of how a high on/off vs a low on/off projector compare in both a good room (bat cave) and a bad room (lounge):

Epson EH-TW9300, EH-TW7300, EH-LS10000: The Battle! - ProjectionDream.com.

 

[kenshingintoki]

Hello

I am considering to buy a new projector in a near future. I have 2 candidates as my budget is under 2500eur, TW7100 and TW9400.

I realize that TW9400 is far better than the TW7100 but when I think of my non-ideal room and conditions I am not sure if it the obvious choice.

So before answering TW9400, please read these considerations!

1., Semi treated room. White celing/walls but first 2m of ceiling/side walls treated with black velvet. Some non treated furniture. Opposite screen wall is white although reflected is dim compared to the treated walls (quite far).
I am not sure how this semi treated room will affect the much better native contrast of the TW9400:
I have some measurements:

Test Epson EH-TW7100 : l’avis de Grégory – – Le Blog de PHC –
Test EPSON EH-TW9400 : l’avis de Grégory – – Le Blog de PHC –

Which are around 1500 for TW7100 and around 4000 for TW9400. Huge difference in a batcave. But what do you think for a semi treated room like mine?

2. Screen size around 150” for 16/9 and 158” for 2.35 (pending to decide). Throw distance from lens to screen is 475cm. View distance is around 450cm. My screen (a pristine white wall) is 370cm wide, but I can’t get this size with a 475cm throw ratio.
A nice feature of the TW9400 is lens memory. I could have 2 different screen sizes for 16/9 and 2.35. But actually the result is not extremely different.

For TW7100 I could have one screen size 330cm wide for both 16/9 and 2.35 (even the lens could go wider, tower speakers are reducing 20cm at each side so 370-40=330cm max)

For TW9400 I could have the same 330cm for 16/9 (same speaker problem), but then for 2.35 I could go wider as the speakers will fall into black bars. Unfortunately I can’t get 370cm due to the zoom limit. It would be around 350cm for 475cm lens distance.

So, even though the TW9400 theoretically can have a wider 2.35 the actual difference is not huge (350 vs 330cm).

3. Color precision. TW9400 has better color management probably. But some caveats. First, color filter is 100% discarded as my screen is around 150 inches so I can’t give up so many lumens. Second thing to consider is that I don’t plan to do a pro calibration (although in a future I could consider it). My starting point would be an approximate calibration following the millions of examples that are in the internet.

Therefore, the massive advantages of the TW9400 are somehow weakened:

Real contrast probably won’t be 4000 vs 1500
Motorized lens will deliver a real increment of 350vs330 in 2.35 and 0 in 16/9). No more.
Color not calibrated and without filter.

Some other points to consider where the TW7100 has an edge:

1. TW7100 has slightly more lumens (around 200 lumen in each mode/calibration according projectorcentral.com measurements). As my screen will be quite big, maybe this lumens could deliver a better HDR image.
2. Small footprint. The TW9400 is gigantic. It is a non dedicated living room, so it is not entirely free. I wouldn’t discard the TW9400 because of the size but obviously if their strengths are minimal, then this huge black device in a multi purpose living room is not very appealing.
3. Price: An interesting point. Normal prices are 1800eur for TW7100 and 2800eur for TW9400. My idea is waiting for the next sale offer. It happens from time to time, TW7100 at around 1400, and TW9400 around 2350.

But last time, TW9400 was reduced but TW7100 not. In that case 1800 vs 2350 is probably clear that I’d buy the TW9400 even if their strengths are diluted.

But I am not sure if the price is 1400 vs 2350, what should I do.

In case of a TW9400 I should add a new projector mount as my Vogels only supports up to 10Kg. The low profile Epson one is around 130eur that should be added to the 2350eur...

What are your thoughts? I honestly think that the TW9400 answer is not as clear in this case after reading my compromises, isn’t it?

BTW, my main source is ATV4K. No Bluerays...

Thanks!!

Have you A/B tested them?

I can only say they are on different levels of performance to the extent there isn't much point comparing them. 9400 wins easily.

tw7100 is from epson budget line of projectors.
9400 is their premium line home cinema PJs.

my friend bought the 7100 from abroad (against my advice, i told him i'd sell him one of my 9300s) and i think i could see tears welling up when we did the comparison test.

 

[kenshingintoki]

FYI ur entire post basically says "I don't care about PQ, I don't care about colour management, I don't care about treating my room to maximise the PQ, I don't care about contrast. I do care about lumens, price and a smaller foot print".

If thats the case, yes the 7100 fits the bill but 99% of the users here are probably the polar opposite in terms of opinions on what they'd want and would take a less bright, bigger projector which has better colours, contrast, blacks, build quality, etc.

 

[CalabiYau]

Thanks!

FYI ur entire post basically says "I don't care about PQ, I don't care about colour management, I don't care about treating my room to maximise the PQ, I don't care about contrast. I do care about lumens, price and a smaller foot print".

Not really. I haven't said that I don't care. I'm saying that I am not sure if my room will spoil these improvements as it is not fully treated and in the end both P.Q, contrast, screen size and so could be similar. Or not. That was the real question.

In my case a full bat cave is not possible so I have to consider this in the equation. There are tons of posts saying that in a non treated room a good projector maybe is not worthing its cost (Would you buy a JVC N9 for a white wall room?). In my case it is a semi treated room so it is not that clear.

Obviously If I were 100% sure that in my room the differences were negligible then I would have chosen the 7100 without asking here.

TBH I am more into the 9400 as the price difference is not huge and I'll enjoy this improvements even if they are limited because of my room. But I'd appreciate any comment in the treatment aspect of my question. The 9400 vs 7100 itself is out of debate.

And yes, I plan to test them A/B in my shop but as you can guess they will provide a dark room so the comparison won't be the same as in my semi treated room.

 

[CalabiYau]

Concerning the lumens I am not saying that it is an important point for me. I have never used my projector with lights on in 12 years. Always with lights off and 100% exterior light blocked. A dark room that doesn't require tons of lumens.

The point is that I have read that for HDR lumens are crucial and somehow I thought that this could be a more tangible aspect than a spoiled contrast. But hey, I was only asking... Not asserting.

 

[swiftpete]

If you've got the money to afford it, go for the better one. If you haven't, get the cheaper one.

Not much anyone else can say really.

 

[kenshingintoki]

Concerning the lumens I am not saying that it is an important point for me. I have never used my projector with lights on in 12 years. Always with lights off and 100% exterior light blocked. A dark room that doesn't require tons of lumens.

The point is that I have read that for HDR lumens are crucial and somehow I thought that this could be a more tangible aspect than a spoiled contrast. But hey, I was only asking... Not asserting.

No HDR lumens are not crucial - still other things we need to consider. They are crucial if you use dynamic tone mapping because based on the lumens available, the tone mapping software will map it accordingly.

On static curves, its not really that simple. Probably be better off just using SDR but if you wanted to use HDR, on this specific projector (7400), its not going to look very pretty and likey the image will look washed out.

For HDR, you really need contrast and the 9300/9400 have contrast with the 7 line simply doesn't have. You want a star on a star field to look bright and the sky to still look black. Thats contrast.

All lumens will do in that scene is make everything look brighter - that is not what HDR is.


Overall, this is an unfair but interesting comparison. The 7100 is a budget projector whilst the 9300 and 9400 are premium projectors. They excel more in:

1. Contrast
2. Black level
3. Colour management
4. Calibrated lumen output
5. Build quality and cooling
6. Flexibility, placement options and feature set
7. I believe HDR implimentation (could be wrong on what 7100 offers if it uses same HDR slider but if it does, I doubt its as tuned as it is for 9400)

Really Epson doesn't even hide this. From the build quality to the photos to how they're marketted; totally different products.

If you can only afford 7100 and cannot stretch to 9400, buy a 9300 second hand. It will have 99% of the PQ of a 9400 for 50% of listed price.

 

[CalabiYau]

Thanks for your elaborated answer! It does make sense.

I was more leaned to 9400 but now I am even more decided.
The TW9400 is definitely in my budget. Actually the difference with the 7100 is not that huge (2350 vs 1800 if the 9400 is discounted and the 7100 not as usually happens).

What I discard is an even more expensive projectors as JVC or LS12000. I am sure that there are really amazing ones, but my multipurpose room doesn't justify this price (5-6k eur).

The 9400 is probably the sweet spot for me.

 

[kenshingintoki]

Thanks for your elaborated answer! It does make sense.

I was more leaned to 9400 but now I am even more decided.
The TW9400 is definitely in my budget. Actually the difference with the 7100 is not that huge (2350 vs 1800 if the 9400 is discounted and the 7100 not as usually happens).

What I discard is an even more expensive projectors as JVC or LS12000. I am sure that there are really amazing ones, but my multipurpose room doesn't justify this price (5-6k eur).

The 9400 is probably the sweet spot for me.

Get a 9300 and explore MADVR HTPC tone mapping 100% for your use case.

Don't get a JVC if its not a blacked out room IMO. Just throwing money away. JVC will look better but not THAT much better.