Question TV for someone extra sensitive to motion blur, judder and stutter?

Discussion in 'What Is The Best TV For You?' started by Gremlins, Jan 5, 2019.

  1. Gremlins

    Gremlins
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    I am new to TVs in general. I have decided i want to watch movies as a serious hobby and so have been looking for a good TV for watching 24 FPS bluray movies. I don't care much about other features.

    Sadly i have noticed that i am extremely sensitive to judder, motion blur and stutter. On my current TV, a Sony AF8, i find it hard to focus on the screen because of the stutter.

    Doing some research only seems to tell me that Sony is considered best at motion, which makes me want to ask: Will i not be able to find a TV that handles motion better? Should i just force myself to get used to it? Although right now it feels like i never will. It's like i am looking at the screen, but it does not allow me to focus.

    I don't want the soap opera effect either, so i really do not know what to do.

    This is my first post here.

    EDIT: I use a PS3 with 24 fps mode enabled. The movies tested so far: Total Recall, Jurassic Park, Blade Runner 2049
     
  2. Angelo M

    Angelo M
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  3. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    OLEDs are the worse with stutter, it can be hard for some people to adjust to the fact there is no blur between one frame and the next also.

    I would recommend trying an LCD instead, yes Sony's are considered to have the best motion but that doesn't necessary mean you will prefer Sony the most. Samsung' have their strengths in motion also, in particular their ability to use dark frame insertion without inducing too much flicker.
     
  4. Analysis

    Analysis
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    I've just checked over on rtings.com and for Motion Blur the LG C8 has been rated the best, for Motion Interpolation the XF90 or NU8000.
     
  5. Tim2049

    Tim2049
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    I wouldnt give up yet, you may just find a sweet spot. I based my entire purchasing decision on 'best motion' and ended up with an AF8. I do use a little bit of 'smoothing' but it's not nearly as offensive as the soap opera effect can look.

    I'm extremely sensitive to judder etc and I find my setup basically flawless. Couldn't be happier. So, just make sure you've exhausted all options/settings before throwing the towel in...
     
  6. Gremlins

    Gremlins
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    Would you mind sharing your settings?
     
  7. Tim2049

    Tim2049
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    Of course:

    Regular tv:

    Standard picture mode

    From the 'clarity' and 'motion' sub menus:

    Reality creation set to auto
    Sharpness at 50
    Smooth graduation set to low
    Motionflow set to custom
    Smoothness set to 4
    Film mode set to medium

    For films:

    Cinema Pro mode

    Again, the clarity and motion sub menus:

    Reality creation set to off
    Sharpness at 50
    Motionflow set to custom
    Smoothness set to 3
    Film mode set to medium

    I hope that helps a little. If it's looking a little too smooth then perhaps try altering the Film Mode a little. Likewise, bringing the smoothness level down to 2 perhaps. But hey...it's all subjective I suppose!
     
  8. Gremlins

    Gremlins
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    Thanks for your replies everyone. Sadly Tim's settings did not do any better for me, i still have trouble focusing on the characters and anything with movement.

    Is QLED motion equal to LED motion? Without interpolation on.

    I'm rather overwhelmed and disappointed how modern TVs do not seem designed around 24 FPS.
     
  9. zeppelino

    zeppelino
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    Sony led sets allow interpolation but without adding in SOE. Samsung ones if used on low settings don’t introduce it either.
     
  10. Gremlins

    Gremlins
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    If i were to seek out an old plasma, would i need to worry about it begin 24 fps capable? How does 24 fps work on plasmas?
     
  11. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    QLED is not a new technology, its just Samsungs branding for their higher end LCDs. They cope with motion the same as the Samsung NU8000.

    Most second hand Plamas from Panasonic and Pioneer from 2010 onward will be fine with 24hz.

    Given your specific needs I would try and seek out a designated AV store who would be willing to let you sample motion on different TVs before you buy. As I said before its probable you just don't get on with your AF8s motion. It may be just because you don't get on with OLED motion or it may be Sony's motion in particular. The only way to know is to try other brands.

    Philips is also another option if you want to look at OLEDs still, they have the best motion on an OLED.
     
  12. Gremlins

    Gremlins
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    Thank you. In my mind i feel almost decided to get a plasma now, since motion is my main concern. Unless someone really wants to convince me otherwise.

    I think i wont notice worse colors and such tings because i am not an expert, so i think maybe this is the right decision.
     
  13. Ijk1985

    Ijk1985
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    Get a used 65VT60 plasma. Pioneer Kuros are slightly better in motion than VT60, but they're 10 years old devices, I don't recommend them. I prefer impulse type displays over sample and hold for any motion picture.
     
  14. Analysis

    Analysis
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  15. Gremlins

    Gremlins
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    Thanks. Wish i was not so sensitive to motion stuff. Hopefully there will be motion improvements without motion interpolation in the future.
     
  16. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    I would try and view a high end Philips TV like the OLED803 and use its motion settings, its the very best with motion and delivers it without any SOE like other TVs. Its also worth demoing LCD motion or higher end TVs as they can use dark frame insertion to greater effect to bolster motion without inducing any SOE.
     
  17. Gremlins

    Gremlins
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    Thanks. Got another plasma question. If i had a choice between Pioneer Kuro and Samsung C8000 would there be noticeable difference? Or all Plasmas better than modern TVs in general at motion?
     
  18. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    There are differences in motion processing, Pioneers is the best.

    Plasma TVs are not sample and hold display though, so probably you'd like the motion on both the Samsung and Pioneer.
     
  19. Gremlins

    Gremlins
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    But even a QLED tv like Samsung Q9FN which was recommended above would not be equal to plasma motion? I intend to turn off motion features regardless of which TV i get.

    EDIT: Never mind, the Samsung seems to have a light issue with subtitles.

    Wondering it is worth wating for 2019 TVs. But i suppose there won't be much of a leap in motion?
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
  20. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    Samsung C8000? I googled it and it was a 2010 LCD TV from 2010. - Thought you were asking about a used Samsung plasma in your last reply but now confused why you would be looking at a used LCD?
    The QLEDs are not new anything new, they are just LCD TVs with a different backlights and crystals.

    LCDs, much like OLED displays are sample and hold display technology, because of this they are technically inferior to Plasma TVs (or CRT) with motion.

    The most common way to judge how good a TVs motion is is by using a test video: Chapter 31 of the FPD Benchmark Software test Blu-ray.

    The test can show how many lines a TV can draw at one time on the screen.

    • Sample and hold displays (LCD/OLED) are limited to only 300 lines by default.
    • LCDs and OLEDs rely on optional motion enhancements (available in TVs settings)to boost this. Some manufacturers can reach the same 1080 lines as Plasma by tricking our eyes and flashing the backlight of the TV very fast. Although full 1080 lines is currently only possible on LCD.
    • Almost all LCD TVs can also use motion interpolation (most likely what you disabled in the past) to increase this too, although most models now allow you to disable this and only use dark frame insertion.
    • Plasma and CRT can do full 1080 lines out of the box, no enhancements just natural motion.

    So basically, this is why Plasma motion is best, out of the box without any enhancements enabled it scores as good as any LCD/OLED can even with enhancements.

    If you are going LCD or OLED you have to use motion enhancements to increase motion resolution, some people keep them disabled, some people like to use them, some people can't use them due to the side effects they bring.

    But aside from this motion is very subjective, there are people who move from Plasma TVs to OLED or LCDs without a problem. You'll have to demo motion on different TVs to know which is best for you, there isn't really any way around that unfortunately.

    Now this info is mainly to discuss motion resolution which is only one part of motion as a whole, nonetheless its an important one.

    There are areas that technology differs:

    • Plasma and OLEDs are pixel by pixel displays and therefore have no motion blur. Having no motion blur is great but for some people who are sensitive to motion they may find it "odd" getting used to OLED motion because of the combination of having no motion blur + only being able to draw 300 lines by default on the TV. OLEDs tend to "stutter" more as they struggle to blend from one frame to the next.
    • LCD TVs have more blur due to pixel response times being higher, this can cause object trails and smearing which OLED/plasma does not suffer from, however it may seem more natural to have this caveat with motion for the sake of just preferring LCD motion.
    My advice would be to A. Get out there and demo some different TVs, not always possible of course but finding a good dealership with decent service could be all you need to find the perfect TV for you.

    B. If you want to be up to date accept you are going to have to try and use some degree of motion enhancements, be it motion interpolation or dark frame insertion either/or are required to get the best motion from display technology today.

    As stupid as it seems, its often two steps forward one back with TVs.
     
  21. Gremlins

    Gremlins
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    Whoops, i was referring to c7705 which was sold in europe.
     
  22. Gremlins

    Gremlins
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    Hey, just wanted to say thanks for all your in-depth replies and guides. I can't send private messages because i am new.

    I have decided to wait until summer. I'll spend a lot of time reading your guides and trying to see if can demo TVs in the store. Not sure if this is as common in Europe as in the US.
     
  23. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    No problem, it can be quite hard to judge a TV in a shop but since you are judging only motion if you can find a retailer that is flexible to give you the remote control to have a play with the motion settings on each TV it would be best.

    You could prepare a USB disc or ask them to put on a film for you.

    The most common types of retailers that let you do this(at least in the UK) would be specialist AV dealers and not your usual large electronic shops.
     

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