TV Dilemmas

MrCisco

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Ok, I've lurked long enough!

I've been watching the TV market and this forum since probably August/September time, and whilst it seems to be a horrible period (tech/format/industry movements), I'm still in the situation where I need to be buying a new TV for the living room pretty soon.

In August I decided to buy myself a budget TV to see me through to about now. I went with the HiSense 50M3300 (£399). Reason being, it would be relegated to the bedroom where I needed a refresh also, and didn't want too splash out too much or go too big for that room. When I bought it, I have to say, I was pretty disappointed. There was some banding, and motion was pretty awful; I nearly sent it back. I was lazy and stuck with it, and pretty much just accepted it for what it was, a cheapish TV.

So on to the research and decisions for a new TV. It's fair to say it's been largely based on posts on here with a bit of Internet research, and a few hours in Currys looking aimlessly at screens. I wish I had narrowed things down, but there's so much to consider, and I hope perhaps some of you can help me pick through once you get a feel for it.

Overview
--------
Budget: Would prefer <1k, would go to 1.6k if worth it, 2k max if perfect

Size: At least 55inch (would be ok with this), 60-65inch (if size were deemed more important than quality)

Viewing distance: Generally straight on, at about 2.5-3m (8-10ft)

Content: Mostly Movies and catch-up (iPlayer, Netflix, Amazon, ITV), Virgin TV (normal HD box), And importantly Sport (Football in HD through virgin, BT Sport streaming HD), Xbox One (standard currently, FIFA/BF1/Forza, possibly intrigued by HDR gaming, but not end of the world)

TVs considered
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£850 - Samsung 55KS7000
£950 - LG910v
£1600 - LGB6
£1600 - Samsung 65KS7000
£2000 - LGE6
£???? - 2017 OLED

Criteria
--------
Sport - is pretty important to me. It's killing me to see the HiSense barely able to display a football without it disappearing when moving. I can't believe in this day and age, image processing is so poor on modern TVs. Anyhow, I hear motion is better on OLED than LCD, so that's a big draw.

Contrast - OLED of course wins hands down. I've seen the Samsung 9000 and LGB6 next to each other in Currys, and there's no competition. OLED draws you in, seems sharper, and blacker blacks without seeming washed out.

4K/FHD - From what I've read, you need to be less than 6ft from a 55inch to see a noticeable difference with 4k? Being as I'm more like 8-10ft, not even a 65inch would have much of a 4k impact? Has anyone actually done the real life test for this and been able to tell the difference? Many said the same thing about SD, HD and FHD back in the day, but everyone ended up seeing the benefits even on the likes of 32inch screens.

Size - Worth getting a bigger screen but less quality? What are people's thoughts over say the 55 B6 Oled vs the 65 KS7000 (similar price currently)?

HDR - as many have said, difficult to find HDR on HD TVs. May not need 4k but not likely to benefit from HDR unless you do. Then you fall into if you get 4k, SDR looks poorer. How do you win that battle? I can't remember if the 910v does HDR? Then there's the formats. Anyone know if 910v or B6 will get an update for HLG? As I understand it, HDR10 and HLG are going to be needed as minimum going forward?

Panel Issues - read a lot about panel uniformity issues, banding, clouding, noise, bleeding, motion problems, brightness, judder etc. Is it just impossible to get away from these, or will most not even notice these? It sounds like the 2017 models don't really go very far to fixing the problems?

Input lag - I'm not a professional gamer, but I also don't want to be seeing a noticeable delay on controlling something on screen and seeing it happen. What would you consider as reasonable for this? I hear HDR gaming increases the input lag considerably? Has the B6 had its gaming update as yet, or likely to?

Judder/Noise etc - Lots of pluses about the OLEDs, but have heard many reports about judder, noise, and skipping. Is this widespread, or just a few people seeing things that aren't really there? Is this massively improved from the B6 to the E6?

Sound - Not the biggest priority for me, but I've heard lots of issues with syching, delays, dropouts with sound bars and the like. Can anyone confirm if the above TVs suffer more than most, or which help to avoid it?

Conclusions
----------
I'm drawn to the OLEDs as most might be, but do their current issues mean they don't justify their cost still? I don't mind splashing out if it's as mind blowing as the demo stuff in the shop, but if you get it home and there's image issues with different feeds, and judder that makes you think you're in the matrix, or motion problems mean you can't watch a great game of football, then I'll not be happy and prefer not to overspend.

Should I be talking myself into the 910v even though it's only FHD? Is the lack of HDR going to be a miss or does it suffer with the same issues as the 920/930/950 that made them disappear so quickly? This is going to be the best panel to watch any remaining SDR in though, right? Just so I'm not going crazy, that is essentially most catch-up and non-HD channels through Virgin, right?

Should I be looking at the 65 KS7000, just for its size benefit? Some have said go as big as possible, but is LCD going to get shown up even more here with any SDR, light bleed etc?

Would the 55KS7000 be more appropriate given its price point?

Can anyone recommend any of the TVs above for fitting all my criteria well, or is there going to be pros/cons?!

Any other advice, or people who have had similar dilemmas?

Thanks!
 
There is a lot to take in with a lot of different options, buying a new TV is a hard decision but if you narrow it down based on how much you want to spend and what you intend to use the TV for it makes it a bit easier.

You should take a read of this regarding FHD vs UHD, it should give you an idea of whether UHD is worth it for you: UHD vs FHD

Then its a matter of narrowing down your budget and deciding on size.

At 2.5m you aren't going to see much of a benefit from UHD, if at all on a 65" TV, so you may want to consider either opting for a FHD one instead, moving closer to view the new TV or just accepting although UHD may not bring you any benefits, HDR will. For 2k for example you could buy yourself a decently capable HDR TV and enjoy HDR content even if you don't benefit from UHD, that decision is up to you.

If I was in your position and your viewing distance isn't flexible then I would consider staying with what you have or getting a FHD TV now, just because HDR is still very much in its infancy. If however you already have plans to view HDR content then it may be different, but thats my personal point of view.
 
Thanks Dodge,

Read a lot of your posts on here the last few months, so appreciate the uptodate advice. I know above seems to be scattered, and it doesn't help that I'm quite open to possibilities.

I guess you are right that perhaps another TV to see me through would probably be the best thing right now. HDR10, HLG, DV all seem in their infancy, and most panels at a good value price point wouldn't be able to get the most out of these anyhow.

4K seems like it wouldn't be very noticeable at that range either. Plus it's likely to be a while before it's mainstream broadcast and not some premium service. I'm sure I can hold off.

So if that means we are leaning towards FHD, are we basically stuck with the 910v as the only option? I need to be able to watch football and movies, a bit of Xbox one, without feeling like there are major issues or glitches annoying me with everyday use.

910v vs B6 - £600 more, B6 will have worse SD? 910v not HDR or 4k, but what other things will I lose out on having the older model?

Any other options? Is 910v best bang for the buck right now? Anyone experienced issues / regrets with the slightly curved screen?

Thanks!
 
Motion wise the B6 and 910v will be more or less the same. Most people are happy with the motion but I really would recommend viewing TVs in the store so you can compare how the OLEDs look with motion compared to LCDs.

Bang for buck wise they are equal, you pay for more features with the B6 of course.

You can take a look in the owners threads, most people are happy. Curved is so slight its not even worth worrying about if you ask me, again if you view curved TVs in the store like the LG C6 you'll see its ever so slight.

The B6 will have worse SD just like any UHD TV.

By not having the B6 you will lose out of HDR support but its a long way yet until HDR becomes the mainstream.

Unless you have any explicit reasons you are going to utilize HDR then I wouldn't get the B6 personally.

The 910v also has 3D which the B6 doesn't.
 
Thanks Dodge,

Read a lot of your posts on here the last few months, so appreciate the uptodate advice. I know above seems to be scattered, and it doesn't help that I'm quite open to possibilities.

I guess you are right that perhaps another TV to see me through would probably be the best thing right now. HDR10, HLG, DV all seem in their infancy, and most panels at a good value price point wouldn't be able to get the most out of these anyhow.

4K seems like it wouldn't be very noticeable at that range either. Plus it's likely to be a while before it's mainstream broadcast and not some premium service. I'm sure I can hold off.

So if that means we are leaning towards FHD, are we basically stuck with the 910v as the only option? I need to be able to watch football and movies, a bit of Xbox one, without feeling like there are major issues or glitches annoying me with everyday use.

910v vs B6 - £600 more, B6 will have worse SD? 910v not HDR or 4k, but what other things will I lose out on having the older model?

Any other options? Is 910v best bang for the buck right now? Anyone experienced issues / regrets with the slightly curved screen?

Thanks!

As a 910V owner, the only thing you will miss out on is 4K and HDR although to be honest I don't think I'm missing out at all. For around 1k you are getting one of the best 1080p pictures available in the last few years, there have been former Kuro and late gen Panasonic plasma owners who have stated the 910v has a better picture in the 910V thread. You are getting a lot of PQ for your money, with a set that has a full calibration menu. Oh, no issues with sound either.

However, as you game and are already subscribing to what are currently the main and, near future sources of UHD content, discs aside, Amazon and Netflix, a UHD set might serve your needs better than mine.

My suggestion, get to a Richer Sounds, all their sets are linked to SKY so you can see sport, HD, SD and 4K/HDR from a domestic source rather than those USB demos they show in places like Currys.

The easter sales are almost upon us too. The 55" B6 could drop below £1500 making it a 'steal' in TV terms. This is very much a financial decision, do you replace TVs every few years or do you expect your investment to last 5 years plus? I fall into the later, yet I bought a 910v because none of the current UHD content interest me nor, do I want to pay extra in subs.

If you want a 5 year plus set a B6 or E6 in the sales would probably hit your sweet spot, and would allow you to enjoy HDR on your next console, and current UHD content you are already paying for with your Amazon and Netflix subs ( OK it's a couple of quid extra for UHD on Netflix but you get my point)
 
Awesome replies, thanks both.

I guess that was one of my biggest dilemmas, is the B6 worth £600+ more?

910v will have better SDR, but no 4k or HDR (which 4k likely not going to be a factor. 3D has never really been a selling point for me, to be fair.

The B6 has its own issues, but is flat (again, unlikely to notice any slight curve). I might enjoy a bit of HDR through Amazon and Netflix, but does it really shine for 600 more, and no promise of HLG as yet. Then there's increased input lag with HDR gaming, and possibly brightness limitations on OLED HDR implementation currently?

I've a feeling I'm being drawn to the cheaper option to see me through another year or two, but probably do need to view them at RS.

Has anyone got any feedback as to how the 910v copes with Xbox One gaming, and watching football through the feeds I mentioned above?

Any other contenders against the 910v?

Thanks :)
 
I would say get the 910v for the budget that you have since you won't get a fald led for that kind of budget so at least you will get a nice uniform picture and no backlight bleed.
 
I'm thinking about a similar move, with similar budgets.
Had a little look around today.
Admittedly I'm only basing in this on the feeds the store had them running on.
First store had a 58dx902, 55ks8000 and a 55 b6. On this simple feed the b6 was blowing the others away with its colour. The dx902 viewing angles didn't take long to wash out the colour.
Next went to Sony store and saw a 55xe90, 55xe93 and a 65xd9305 - oh and a zd9.....
Using their feeds there wasn't much in all of them but it left me thinking that if there's still stock around somewhere in a month or so, the choice for me is between a 2016 55inch LG oled or (and possibly a slight favourite right now) a 65xd9305 (the straight on image was great and unlike the Panasonic, the image didn't wash out when i looked from the sides).

Granted this wasn't a technical test, and i wasn't watching a small white spaceship move around a black screen, but just my two pence worth.
 
I also went into currys today. I wanted to see the 910v vs B6 (which ended up having to be the C6, as no B6 on display - same thing though).

They didn't have any live or 'normal' feeds, so had to make do with their USB with some HD content on (think it was the demo stuff for the 910). Anyhow, Watched on the 910v first, and thought that's pretty good, good blacks, good picture etc. Now let's try on the C6 (B6), I thought. After discussing here, i thought it likely won't be much better, I'm not going to notice much difference as it's only HD anyhow. Unfortunately I was wrong! Straight away the B6 seemed to just pop, the colours looked more vibrant, more bright, and guess it must naturally upscale too. I didn't want to find much of a difference, but in the 5-10mins I watched, I have to say, I did. Whether it's worth 600 more is another question though :(
 
The likes of dodgexander probably forgotten more about TVs than we actually know, so you can't discount their view but if you go the 910v route are you going to watch a film on Netflix for the next few years with the nagging thought a 4k oled may have given a better image? Even if it scientifically wouldn't, the thought would still be there?

New LG models coming out, they've stopped spending money on the sky promotion, surely the b6 et all will fall in price soon
 
I think the sensible thing regardless is to waiting for the new models to drop and see how that affect pricing on 2015/2016 models. You'd hope there would be some deals to be had, but judging by how much they've ramped up to now (B6 at 1999 most places), makes you wonder how much of a price drop they'll give them. B6 was 1500-1600 around Black Friday time, but can't imagine they'll slash 500 off the price just like that?

I also read in another thread that LG are possibly looking at an A7 FHD? Has anyone else heard that?
 
Didn't the 2017 models already release (LG OLED65C7P)? I don't want to wait too long in my quest for an OLED TV with 3D since the industry has decided to drop 3D altogether leaving a lot of people in a situation like mine where they'll try to get the last of the highest quality 3D TVs.

Is LG still producing the 2016 models or has production stopped and current stocks are all that's left? If that's the case, wouldn't it be like what happened with plasma displays IE if you wait too long, the price could end up skyrocketing? Even with 4k OLED 3D tvs available, the no-longer-produced 1080p plasma models are pricing at $5000 (Samsung 3D Plasma). Waiting on a 2016 OLED that has 3D could be a big mistake IMO especially if LG has stopped production on the C6 and E6.

Maybe that's just my excuse for going this weekend to grab a C6 lol but I'm not leaving it to chance. Of course, I'll end up kicking myself if these drop another 15-20% before the price skyrockets. Does anyone know if the 2016 LG c6 / e6 models are still in production?
 
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I wouldn't be surprised to see it move to circa £1.5 / 1.6k. £1.6k is a 20% drop which sounds doable to me. With regards to black Friday prices, surely that proves the margin is there if they want to chase some market share before the others properly get involved in oled (Sony and Panasonic have oled high end models coming out)
 
Gaming wise the 910v will be fine, it has mediocre input lag which is good enough for most people not to notice. Motion will be the same vs the B6/C6/E6.

If you thought they both looked good with motion in the store then I would go for the 910v. Technically the colour on the 2016 models for SDR won't look noticably better, so it must have been the settings in the store that stood out to you if colour popped more. Admittedly the 2016 OLEDs have improvements in contrast and near black levels too but whether its worth that extra money I'm not sure. If you think you will utilize HDR maybe, if you don't mind about SD looking worse, maybe.

I haven't heard anything about a new FHD OLED. It would be nice if there was but I can't see LG doing that when they are so focused on cutting production costs of the UHD panels.

Price wise its a gamble, the 2016 models will likely go down in price some, but how much they go down for and how soon they sell out is anyone's guess. I doubt they are still producing 2016 models but I don't know. I don't think anyone does.
 
I think the sensible thing regardless is to waiting for the new models to drop and see how that affect pricing on 2015/2016 models. You'd hope there would be some deals to be had, but judging by how much they've ramped up to now (B6 at 1999 most places), makes you wonder how much of a price drop they'll give them. B6 was 1500-1600 around Black Friday time, but can't imagine they'll slash 500 off the price just like that?

I also read in another thread that LG are possibly looking at an A7 FHD? Has anyone else heard that?
the Prices on the UHD OLEDS B6, C6, etc have gone up in the last few weeks probably because British laws around 'sales' state a product must be on sale for 28 days at the higher price to advertise it as a reduction. In other words, in the 4 weeks prior to a seasonal sale period some good's prices are inflated or maintained in order for the discount come sales time to look worthwhile. This applies to more than just TVS, it's standard retail practice.

In other words, the UHD OLEDS will probably drop by a couple of hundred quid if not more come Easter sales. There can be dramatic price drops in TVs when the new models start to come out.

As for Plasma comparisons, that's a different ball game. Plasma production ceased before any viable alternative to LCD/LED was widely available to consumers. Prices went up as AV enthusiasts created a demand with few sets available and no real alternative on the horizon, so yeah there were cases of plasmas going for silly money. Even now a good second hand plasma is worth far more than it's used LCD equivalent because there are no new models.
 
For sure. I have no doubt they are being setup to drop, as per most things in retail. I'm just wondering how much they'll get reduced and when?

Is there a comparison with models/sales last year when the new range hit?

Have we got any fixed dates for the new LGs/Samsung/Sony/Panny/Philips to hit the shelves as yet?

If the 'cheapest' new OLED is going to start at £2500, I can imagine there may be a bit of a rush on the old stock.
 
I also went into currys today. I wanted to see the 910v vs B6 (which ended up having to be the C6, as no B6 on display - same thing though).

They didn't have any live or 'normal' feeds, so had to make do with their USB with some HD content on (think it was the demo stuff for the 910). Anyhow, Watched on the 910v first, and thought that's pretty good, good blacks, good picture etc. Now let's try on the C6 (B6), I thought. After discussing here, i thought it likely won't be much better, I'm not going to notice much difference as it's only HD anyhow. Unfortunately I was wrong! Straight away the B6 seemed to just pop, the colours looked more vibrant, more bright, and guess it must naturally upscale too. I didn't want to find much of a difference, but in the 5-10mins I watched, I have to say, I did. Whether it's worth 600 more is another question though :(

Three points:
1) Most HD content that doesn't come from a disc or console isn't true 1080, it's compressed etc.
What that means is that the upscaled picture you viewed on the B6 via USB, may not be as good as an upscaled picture from a standard domestic source e.g Sky, Virgin, Netflix, good old fashioned aerial. Filling all those extra pixels on a 4k TV with a downgraded or poor HD source will cause more picture quality issues than a 1080p TV due to processing artifacts etc. The 4K TV has to do more work to get the signal on to the screen and that may cause juddering, pixellation, polarization etc.


2) Precisely because of 1 above. A 4k broadcast, (non disc source) will look better than a broad cast HD picture if it falls not too far outside of the viewing distance graphs everyone loves on these forums. These graphs are based on perfect sources not the poorly compressed rubbish that most of our TVs are being fed. So you might not be able to notice the 4k but you will notice that a 4k broadcast picture will look better than a 'HD' one. Over on the OLED forums, new UHD owners say 4k Broadcasts look like good Blu-ray transfers of course HD broadcasts should look that good but they don't see point 1 above, so there is something to be said for having 4k even if the charts say you won't benefit providing, you are not sitting 12 plus feet away from a 55"

( the charts are relevant but only as a guide, due to the nature of our sources, If you plan on your TV mostly for disc based content then they should be used as the rules, not for guidance)

3) Did you check the settings on the B6 vs the 910v in Currys e.g brightness OLED light, contrast etc. Some retailers may want to make the more expensive sets look better on the shop floor than their cheaper equivalents.

Anyway more thoughts to confuse the issue. Truth be told when I purchased my 910v the B6 was around the £2200 mark, almost twice what I paid for my 910V. Now if you shop around and wait for the sales the B6 could be had for £500 more. That wouldn't change my mind, but for someone who already has access to UHD and could be watching content in this format then I say go with the B6
 

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