TV blink on freeview

zaffy

Standard Member
LG37LE4900 TV (37" LED)

Freeview HD channels issue.

I'm getting a black blink periodically when watching HD channels (all channels).
The blink is like a camera flicker - just lasts a split second. Picture quality is great. TV is new.

Standard channels are OK.

Any idea what is causing the issue and if a firmware upgrade is required

LG state that they are working with TV provides to sort out the issue.
Has anyone solved this issue by either firmware upgrades or other means.

Thanks in advance
 

lbear

Novice Member
After initial trials on BBC HD, all the HD channels are now using a slightly different transmission system. Previously all were transmitted at 1080i/50 (that is 1080 pixels high with half the picture transmitted every 1/50th of a second so a complete "interpolated " picture is sent every 1/25th of a second. The alternative now also used is 1080p/25 in which the whole picture is transmitted at one time every 1/25th second. That gives a more detailed image on slow moving images but would be jerky if used for fast scenes like sports.

The channels now often use both within the same programme, changing it from scene to scene to give you the best picture depending on the content. The times you are most certain to see the effect is on the BBC HD "great moments" promotions. The nature scenes are in 1080p/25 but the end with the "crystal" graphics is 1080i/50.

Some television makers did not take account of the ability for broadcasters to use this dynamic switching, even though it is part of the Freeview HD specification. The change from one mode to another should be seamless but some IDTVs have a slight delay caused by either the software or hardware (or a combination). I believe Sony had the problem with some sets and have released a software update to correct it.

LG appear to be not taking responsibility and are fobbing people off with that nonsense about consulting broadcasters. They had a similar problem with their Freesat televisions not being able to access BBC iPlayer and eventually gave out complimentary Freesat boxes to their customers.

My advice is to notify your retailer that because of this fault your set is "unfit for purpose" and ask them to collect the set and give you a full refund. (That wording is from the English Sale of Goods Acts, if you are in Scotland or Northern Ireland ask your local tranding standards people for the equivalent). In England, if you purchased it on a credit card or with a credit agreement, the credit company has joint responsibilty with the shop and you should make a claim on them if the shop refuses.

If you do not want to change the set immediately, still notify the retailer - NOT LG even if the shop tries to convince you they are responsible. Hopefully the fault can be corrected by a firmware update but request the shop corrects the fault.

One compromise you may want to suggest as a temporary measure is for them to refund you £25 so you can purchase a refurbished Freeeview HD box from Tesco's Ebay store and an HDMI lead (which you can get in a pound store). That can be set to send the best quality 1080p/50 signal to your TV which will then not have to do the internal switching that is causing the problem.
 
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Tight Git

Distinguished Member
Although I'm not affected by this problem, just like to say what an excellent explanation from lbear. :thumbsup:
 

zaffy

Standard Member
Thanks Ibear - a very good post and very informative.
I phoned the retailer I bought the TV from and they did exactly what you state : fobbed me off with "call LG" and stated that they had never heard of the problem.

I will ask for my money back as the TV was only bought for the 1080p as I had a 720px before. To be honest, I wasn't overly impressed with the TVs quality : sound was poor and picture has flickers on complex backgrounds . I had a Panasonic before and it appeared better quality all round.

I would like to buy another Panasonic and would like to know if Panasonic has this problem. If anyone can help I would me most appreciative.
 

lbear

Novice Member
Thanks Zaffy,

Well my immediate reaction was that if your retailer had not heard of the problem, LG certainly has because they have their excuse off pat - I have seen others who have posted a similar response from them.

For some reason is seems to crop up a lot more with IDTVs than separate HD boxes all of which seem to cope with the switching.

I would not like to recommend any make as completely clear of the problem. I mentioned Sony had it but seems to have cured it with an update. I have not heard of problems with Panasonic but their record on getting BBC iPlayer on their first tranche of Freesat HD IDTVs is not the most distinguished - I should at least give LG kudos for giving out free Humax freesat boxes when they gave up on trying with their efforts.

My own preference is to avoid the "all in one" aspect of the very latest technology and go for separate "set top" boxes. If you are OK with a separate box, get one of the £20 ones I mention above and wait till after Christmas. I reckon a lot of places will be clearing out their stocks of large screen TVs without Freeview HD tuners so there should be some bargains about.

For several reasons, not the least being their product knowledge, I always recommend people go to Richer Sounds, the "Which?" retailer of the year, if you have a branch near you. They will also have their stock on display working so you can check sound and vision before you buy.
 

ard126k

Active Member
I've a Panasonic (G20) and I didn't even know they had started the i-p switching malarkey! Also iPlayer works fine after a downloaded update.
Alex.
 

lbear

Novice Member
I've a Panasonic (G20) and I didn't even know they had started the i-p switching malarkey! Also iPlayer works fine after a downloaded update.
Alex.

From what I have read, the iPlayer problem only still affects the 2009 versions of the Freesat HD Panasonics. There was a relatively recent update for the 2010 models and the 2011 models were OK.

Freesat HD has had a broadcast version of iPlayer accessed through the red button service since Christmas 2009. There is an option on the front page of the text pages. A similar service has launched on Freeview HD but used a version of the MHEG software that only became compulsory in April this year. As far as I am aware, only the Sony PVR has passed the new testing procedure that was introduced then (this may well be out of date for the "2012" models) and the BBC will not allow access to this version unless it has passed this testing.

Other Freeview HD equipment that accesses iPlayer use an "app" included as part of the software or access a portal to a web page with a further link to a similar app. As an example, the non-Freesat Panasonics used a Vierralink app (or so I believe) while the Humax FVHD boxes access a portal page. Neither are the same as the "broadcast" versions of iPlayer. Actually the red button accessed versions are not as good in my experience as others like the Humax portal can link to a version with a HD (720p) option.

Good to know that the Panasonic range appears to have not been affected by the mode switching problem - I presume you have checked the FVHD setting rather than just using Freesat if your set has both tuners?
 

zaffy

Standard Member
I have just spoken to the retailer that sold me the LG TV.

They spoke to LG and LG state that the TV is not defective and that it is a problem cause by the broadcasters on freeview. They maintain that there is not a TV out there which isn't suffering with the same and that this is not an LG specific problem. They cite SONY as also suffering from the same issue.

LG will send out an engineer to inspect the TV but will change in the event of no fault being found.(which probably they will decide)

I am told that I will have to wait until a resolution is reached between LG and the broadcasters.

I find this totally unsatisfactory and have asked for a full refund or the option to do a swap-out with another brand of TV. The shop has declined on both accounts stating that the TV is not considered defective by the manufacturers and thus there is nothing they can do.

The shop have offered to lend me a freeview box to see if this sorts out the problem. If it does, then my view on this is that if the box manufacturer can work successfully with the broadcasted freeview signal, why can't LG.

I'm left with a product which is not functioning through no fault of my own.
 

Pilgrim42

Novice Member
Anyone else begin to smell a rat here? If LG are still persisting with the "it's the broadcasters' fault" myth, even though they must know that other manufacturers have found fixes, could it be that they know they've cocked up but CAN'T fix it without a recall, and are wriggling to save face and expense?
Mike.
 

Rodders53

Distinguished Member
The Sale of Goods Act and your local Trading Standards office (and/or the retailers' local TS office) are your friends... call them to get their view and, perhaps, assistance.

You will need to put your rejection of the "unfit for purpose" goods in writing to the retailer, though, asap.

NB The broadcasters launched the new method on the Freeview BBC HD channel only some time ago to allow manufacturers time to identify problems, develop and upgrade firmware for their units (where necessary) ... now all 4 HD channels use it in order to allow a 5th channel to fit in the available bandwidth.

Rest assured the BBC, C4 & ITV would not 'carry on regardless' unless their broadcasts were 100% compliant with the published engineering standards. The fact set makers don't meet those standards is an inherent manufacturing defect.

See BBC - FAQs - Why am I experiencing audio gaps or black flashes on the BBC HD channel on Freeview?
 

lbear

Novice Member
All excellent advice.

I will just add two points, speak to the trading standards people before you write but you used to have to include the phrase "I reject these goods as being unfit for the purpose it was purchased", namely the reception of HD television in the UK.

Secondly, just a reminder that the credit card company is jointly liable if you purchased it on a card (or with a credit agreement) and the item costs over £100 which presumably this did. Again, trading standards will advise on the exact wording you should use to tell them that you have been sold a pup.

In the meantime, decide if you want the set fixed or an immediate refund. The shop has admitted the fault by offering you a separate box (make sure it is Freeview HD) but this is taking you down the route of allowing them to remedy the position rather than refund.

As is pointed out, the change affected the sound on some other TVs, including Sony. I found this on the What HiFi site that explains other manufacturers were aware of the problems with the dynamic switching in June and issued software updates, unlike LG!
 

lbear

Novice Member
I mentioned that LG had problems with their software for the iPlayer on freesat. I have found this on the joinfreesat site - you can google the exact page by using a chunk of the text as the search criteria as I am unsure about linking to another discussion board here:

Following on from our previous post regarding the lack of BBC iPlayer on LG televisions with Freesat built-in, it would seem that LG are now offering customers of the LG LF7700 television a free Freesat digital box, so that they can receive iPlayer.
This would strongly suggest that LG have no plans to make iPlayer available on their now discontinued LF7700 range, choosing to supply all customers who ask with a separate receiver; maybe it is cheaper to buy receivers than develop their software for iPlayer, or they simply cannot get it to work; either way, this does seem an acceptance of blame which they have denied for so long.

The discussion has some very familiar sounding excuses from LG why that fiasco took place.
 

timbo22

Standard Member
LG37LE4900 TV (37" LED)

Freeview HD channels issue.

I'm getting a black blink periodically when watching HD channels (all channels).
The blink is like a camera flicker - just lasts a split second. Picture quality is great. TV is new.

Standard channels are OK.

Any idea what is causing the issue and if a firmware upgrade is required

LG state that they are working with TV provides to sort out the issue.
Has anyone solved this issue by either firmware upgrades or other means.

Thanks in advance

Hi everyone,
I am having the same trouble with my Samsung LE46D580. Have found a firmware fix, which gives me 2 options

T-MST4DEUC -1025.0
T-MSV4DEUC -1005.0

both were released on 26/10/11

Does anyone know which is the correct one for my TV?

Many thanks,
Tim.
 

zaffy

Standard Member
I think I'm going to speak to the trading standards.

Tried a BUSH set top box loaned to me by the shop and the problem disappeared.
 

zaffy

Standard Member
Hi everyone,
I am having the same trouble with my Samsung LE46D580. Have found a firmware fix, which gives me 2 options

T-MST4DEUC -1025.0
T-MSV4DEUC -1005.0

both were released on 26/10/11

Does anyone know which is the correct one for my TV?

Many thanks,
Tim.

Would imagine the higher number T-MST4DEUC -1025.0 at a guess

found these downloadable firmwares (to see how the file names work) from 2009 (21-09-09) and (30-09-09)

2001.1 - date is earlier than 2005.0 so 2005 should be the more up to date
So go for the higher number in your case which is 1025.0
-------------------------------------------------------------

T-CHL7DAUC - 2001.1
SWU_T-CHL7DAUC_002001_I02_ES000DS000_090921
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/FM/200911/20091127101733312/T-CHL7DAUC.exe
T-CHL7DEUC - 2005.0
SWU_T-CHL7DEUC_002005_I02_ES000DS000_090930
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/FM/200910/20091030222802906/T-CHL7DEUC.exe
-------------------------------------------------------
 

Colin London

Novice Member
Can't believe the BS response from LG claiming that the problem affects all TVs and citing Sony.

OK Sony had to be cajoled via Internet forums earlier this year to fix this, but they put the investment in to do so and it is fixed, for all their Freeview HD models.

LG need to be embarrassed that they clearly don't want to invest in customer support and would rather fob off people with lies and half-truths.
 

timbo22

Standard Member
Would imagine the higher number T-MST4DEUC -1025.0 at a guess

found these downloadable firmwares (to see how the file names work) from 2009 (21-09-09) and (30-09-09)

2001.1 - date is earlier than 2005.0 so 2005 should be the more up to date
So go for the higher number in your case which is 1025.0
-------------------------------------------------------------

T-CHL7DAUC - 2001.1
SWU_T-CHL7DAUC_002001_I02_ES000DS000_090921
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/FM/200911/20091127101733312/T-CHL7DAUC.exe
T-CHL7DEUC - 2005.0
SWU_T-CHL7DEUC_002005_I02_ES000DS000_090930
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/FM/200910/20091030222802906/T-CHL7DEUC.exe
-------------------------------------------------------

Thank you Zaffy will give it a try and report back.
Tim.
 

lbear

Novice Member
I think I'm going to speak to the trading standards.

Tried a BUSH set top box loaned to me by the shop and the problem disappeared.


OK now we know you are getting the run around from Argos too!

At least you have confirmed the television cannot properly display current television broadcasts which in my book makes it 'unfit for purpose' within the meaning of the SOGA.

Tell Argos (and the credit card company if you use one) that you want your money back now and go to Richer Sounds. You will be shocked at the price difference and quite how much extra Argos try to charge you for a 3 year warranty extension compared to RS who charge 10% of the purchase price for 5 years in home service (over 32 inch screens)
 
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grahamlthompson

Distinguished Member
OK now we know you are getting the run around from Argos too!

At least you have confirmed the television cannot properly display current television broadcasts which in my book makes it 'unfit for purpose' within the meaning of the SOGA.

Tell Argos (and the credit card company if you use one) that you want your money back now and go to Richer Sounds. You will be shocked at the price difference and quite how much extra Argos try to charge you for a 3 year warranty extension compared to RS who charge 10% of the purchase price for 5 years in home service (over 32 inch screens)

If you don't claim in the 5 years you get your guarantee money back as well. :D
 

lbear

Novice Member
If you don't claim in the 5 years you get your guarantee money back as well. :D
I am afraid the TV warranty is different and has other conditions. You do not get your money back after the 5 years and sets under 32 inches have to be returned for servicing. The money back element still applies to other equipment including PVRs.
 

zaffy

Standard Member
OK now we know you are getting the run around from Argos too!

No, it was not Argos

At least you have confirmed the television cannot properly display current television broadcasts which in my book makes it 'unfit for purpose' within the meaning of the SOGA.

I agree. The shop are speaking to LG again to try and resolve.
If they say "No refund or swap-out" that is when I begin the legal stuff.

Tell Argos (and the credit card company if you use one) that you want your money back now and go to Richer Sounds.
I might explore that possibility (credit card company) but I expect they will have a problem with this if the shop state that the TV is not defective. But, I may try.
Thanks all for the advise.
 
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winston2010

Well-known Member
Have you had this LG less than 6 months? If so under the sale of goods act you don't have to prove it's faulty. The shop has to prove it's not.

Start the legal process immediately, don't mess about.
 

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