TV aerial extension query for use with freeview HD

azzy129

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I live in a block of masionettes and the property management company have recently installed new communal digital tv dishes and aerials. My coax aerial scoket is located in the sitting room (ground floor). I want to run an extension from that to the bedroom upstairs. The TV I'm locating to that bedroom will be used for freeview HD. What I wanted to know is can I use a regular coax cable extension kit (that is commonly available from high street stores) or do I use a satellite digital cable (the type that is used in a dish to receiver setup). I am concerned that if I use a regular extension cable, then it might not give me a good or high level of signal for freeview HD.
I should also mention that the length of cable I intend to use is going to be 20-25 meters.
 
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Hi,a regular extension cable should be ok,but remember you may be subject to signal loss.at those kind of lengths,if thats the case you could try/use a signal boooster, also make sure the cable is of good quality and well screeened,and try to keep it away from electrical cables,eg power cables etc.Jimmo.
 
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I'd advise against the cheapo thin coax used in the high street 'kits'.

Instead get proper double-screened 'satellite grade' coax WF100 or similar) and either f-connectors with adapters or good aerial plugs and make up your own. (You can get TV plugs that screw on like f-connectors, Labgear iirc).

B&Q, Screwfix, Maplin and any local aerial shop will supply the bits... as will a number of web vendors.
 
Thanks for the above 2 replies. Since posting this thread I've done quite a bit of research on this matter. I'm not going to go for the bog standard regular coax cable that has no proper shielding and doesn't handle HD that well. Instead I'm going to get a good quality coax cable that handles HD transmission, is copper foil insulated and has low loss. It's supplied off the reel and can be bought from electrical suppliers like screwfix and Maplin. I'm also going to connect gold plated coax connectors on each end. It's a project I'm confident with, as I've just yesterday successfully mounted the TV wall bracket on my bedroom wall.
 
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Thanks for the above 2 replies. Since posting this thread I've done quite a bit of research on this matter. I'm not going to go for the bog standard regular coax cable that has no proper shielding and doesn't handle HD that well. Instead I'm going to get a good quality coax cable that handles HD transmission, is copper foil insulated and has low loss. It's supplied off the reel and can be bought from electrical suppliers like screwfix and Maplin. I'm also going to connect gold plated coax connectors on each end. It's a project I'm confident with, as I've just yesterday successfully mounted the TV wall bracket on my bedroom wall.

PF100 or WF100 is the cable. Gold plating will not make the slightest difference. Best to use F connectors and fit F to Belling Lee converters where required (Gold plated if you wish :rolleyes:).

How to fit F Connectors to coaxial cable (forget the grease) if you must use a wallplate make sure it's fully screened. Better still make up a f to f wall outlet using Screwfix's modular range. F connectors have lower losses than Belling Lees which don't terminate at 75ohms very well.

HD makes no difference the uhf carrier frequencies are the same however if your transmitter is one of the temporary low power transmissions the lower losses and better screening of the cable will help.
 
2 of you guys are telling me to use F connectors. I did consider this. But I am not clear on how this setup will work. If I explain. I have the standard wall socket that you get in flat's/blocks (newly built or recently upgraded). It's got the normal TV coax socket, FM/DAB socket and SAT 1 and SAT 2 socket. I take it the SAT 1 (and SAT 2) will take the F connector. If I do this can my Sony TV which has Freeview HD receive pictures/signal through this method? I should also mention (and as you will know) on the TV side it is a regular RF connection, so I won't be able to use an F connector to the TV. Maybe you thought I had a stand alone Freeview box, which might have a F connector to it.
 
Screwfix 78129 is the screw-on TV plug I mentioned. Ideally the centre pin requires soldering but it's not essential in most dry homes.

Alternatively you use Screwfix 39772 at each end of a cable terminated in F-plugs (Screwfix 17061).

There's nothing wrong with 'Belling Lee' connectors in my opinion, although they are trickier to terminate properly.

These are all available elsewhere in smaller quantities (but I find Screwfix prices are quite keen for these items - you'd probably pay the same for one in some of the diy sheds as for a pack of 10).
 
" If I do this can my Sony TV which has Freeview HD receive pictures/signal through this method? I should also mention (and as you will know) on the TV side it is a regular RF connection, so I won't be able to use an F connector to the TV" Yes you can just screw a F connector at the wall socket end ,and another F connector at the TV end and then add a male adaptor to screw into said TV F connector,plug into TV and voila you should be up and running,
 
Screwfix 78129 is the screw-on TV plug I mentioned. Ideally the centre pin requires soldering but it's not essential in most dry homes.

Alternatively you use Screwfix 39772 at each end of a cable terminated in F-plugs (Screwfix 17061).

There's nothing wrong with 'Belling Lee' connectors in my opinion, although they are trickier to terminate properly.

These are all available elsewhere in smaller quantities (but I find Screwfix prices are quite keen for these items - you'd probably pay the same for one in some of the diy sheds as for a pack of 10).

Belling Lee plugs were invented in the 1930's when TV was in its infancy and transmission frequencies were much lower (Band 1 VHF), they have no way of stopping them falling out, the sockets lose their tension and the plugs fall out (just like scart connections). They need soldering unless you get the screw type. They introduce reflection from the poor 75ohm matching and should have been consigned to the connection dustbin years ago. It's no coincidence that good kit for terrestrial now uses F connectors. Compare the insertion loss of a F to F joint with a barrel connector at at 1GHz compared to a male female Belling Lee connector, no problem if the there's lots of signal but trying to receive a weak signal every dB counts.

I imagine the only reason in the UK is that f connectors mean satellite, the Aussies caught on quicker.
 
I imagine the only reason in the UK is that f connectors mean satellite, the Aussies caught on quicker.

The Aussies and all PAL/Secam countries use Belling Lee connectors for TV aerials. NTSC countries use F connectors.

If you use F connectors you will have to use adapters to plug into your wall plate and TV anyway so all those reflections and poor 75 ohm matching will still be there, and of course the whole lot will be heavier and even more likely to fall out.
 
As far as I am aware (and by doing further searches) I cannot get freeview transmission be it HD or non HD by connecting to a Satellite dish (communal or stand alone). Freeview is through an aerial/digital aerial. Therefore using an F connector is irrelevant. As we all know, aerials use coaxial connectors i.e. male/female/plug/socket. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
 
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As far as I am aware (and by doing further searches) I cannot get freeview transmission be it HD or non HD by connecting to a Satellite dish (communal or stand alone). Freeview is through an aerial/digital aerial. Therefore using an F connector is irrelevant. As we all know, aerials use coaxial connectors i.e. male/female/plug/socket. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

No one is suggesting using a satellite dish. Freeview is through an aerial. There is no such thing as a digital aerial.
What is being suggested is that you use F connectors on your extension lead with adapters but as I said above there is no real advantage in doing so.

Also as I said above aerials use F connectors in NTSC countries (US, Canada, etc). Some aerials here actually now use F connectors on the aerial itself rather than saddle and clamp connections. But no TV's here have F connectors on their inputs.
 
No one is suggesting using a satellite dish. Freeview is through an aerial. There is no such thing as a digital aerial.
What is being suggested is that you use F connectors on your extension lead with adapters but as I said above there is no real advantage in doing so.

Also as I said above aerials use F connectors in NTSC countries (US, Canada, etc). Some aerials here actually now use F connectors on the aerial itself rather than saddle and clamp connections. But no TV's here have F connectors on their inputs.

I don't understand the logic. If I'm not directly using the F plug/socket connector on my socket wall mount i.e. the SAT 1 (which has this fitting and is for the communal satellite DISH feed) but instead using the traditional coaxial TV aerial connection (which I assume feeds to the new high gain antenna) then why not just do without the F connectors and have some sort of adapters to go on to the latter connection (As people have suggested). I could just connect coaxial male/female connectors without the need for any additional bits and pieces. After all it's these types of connectors that go with the TV aerial wall socket mount and the TV RF input. Am I making my point clear or have I still missed a trick? Another way to put it is... it's like having a UK 3 pin mains plug but then connecting it to a worldwide travel plug adapter, using the UK 3 pin adapter within the UK!!
 
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I don't understand the logic. If I'm not directly using the F plug/socket connector on my socket wall mount i.e. the SAT 1 (which has this fitting and is for the communal satellite DISH feed) but instead using the traditional coaxial TV aerial connection (which I assume feeds to the new high gain antenna) then why not just do without the F connectors and have some sort of adapters to go on to the latter connection (As people have suggested). I could just connect coaxial male/female connectors without the need for any additional bits and pieces. After all it's these types of connectors that go with the TV aerial wall socket mount and the TV RF input. Am I making my point clear or have I still missed a trick? Another way to put it is... it's like having a UK 3 pin mains plug but then connecting it to a worldwide travel plug adapter, using the UK 3 pin adapter within the UK!!

The discussion about the relative merits of F connectors and Belling Lee connectors may have misled you here.

Contributors have been suggesting their use because of the slightly critical nature of the installation.

Despite F connector superiority, countless millions of standard coax connectors are in everyday use without any problem.

You can use either you prefer: Coax or F-connector with an adaptor, but bear in mind the points raised when making your decision.
 
Top tips.

As others have said, use fully screened "satellite" cable (CT100, WF100 etc). I`ve changed loads of those thinner, white coax leads that a lot of retailers sell. Most of those cables are fully screened, but the thinner cable and moulded plugs seem to cause lots of problems. I recently replaced a 5 metre extension cable that a customer had purchased from a reputable independant TV dealer (I would have thought they would know better). The loss down that cable was quite high. The other common problem is that when I held the cable close to the back of the TV, interference could be seen on analogue TV channels, a sign of poor screening.

If you are going to split an aerial outlet, I recommend the use of a metal splitter with F connectors. Again, the white plastic splitters that are commonly sold aren`t fully screened, and the sockets often break if any strain is put on them.

"Twist on" aerial plugs are what I use. The belling lee type plugs are fiddly to fit (and may be technically worse, as Graham has pointed out). Soldering the centre core of the coax to the middle pin might be preferable, by I make sure that I expose enough of the centre core of the coax so that a bit is exposed when I twist the plug on. I can the give the end of the centre pin a "crimp" so that a decent connection is made. I also put a kink in the centre core before I fit the plug, again this ensures that the cable touches the centre pin.

When you run a coax cable around your property, avoid sharp bends and damage to the cable (such as squashing it, or putting a tack through it). If the cable gets badly squashed or pinched, increased signal loss will occur, particularly at higher frequencies.
 
The Aussies and all PAL/Secam countries use Belling Lee connectors for TV aerials. NTSC countries use F connectors.

If you use F connectors you will have to use adapters to plug into your wall plate and TV anyway so all those reflections and poor 75 ohm matching will still be there, and of course the whole lot will be heavier and even more likely to fall out.

In Oz as in the UK high quality terrestrial kit including antenna, splitters and amplifiers all now use f-connectors. Look at the vision and other good kit ranges.

If you read my post I said to use a back to back F connector for the wall plate (Keystone Single Modular Faceplate - Screwfix.com, Where the Trade Buys, Keystone F Connector Female to Female Jack - Screwfix.com, Where the Trade Buys)

No adaptors needed. THe only adaptors are needed at the connection to the TV. All the others can be made using purely F connectors and f barrel joins

Labgear F Plug to F Plugs Pack of 10 - Screwfix.com, Where the Trade Buys

Wapedia - Wiki: TV aerial plug.

Which TV - Aerial Connectors

TV aerial plug

In its simplest form all thats needed is 3 f connectors, one barrel joint and a single F to Male Belling Lee converter

Labgear F To Coax Plugs Pack of 10 - Screwfix.com, Where the Trade Buys
 
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Graham,

The use of "F sockets" for aerial outlets is probably the best way to proceed for maximum signal integrity, I`d suggest that if this is done, that the outlet is clearly labelled as UHF Aerial, otherwise Sky might come along at a future time and think it`s their lucky day !

I tend to replace "normal" coax outlets with plates that have a fully screened connector on the back for the incoming coax (these are available as either modular units, or full sized signle plates). On the ones I use, the socket itself is rather good quality, which means that the coax plug fits in soundly. I`ve never had an issue with using twist on coax plugs and these fully screened outlets. I haven`t tested it, but I suspect that there would be very little difference between this arrangement and using F socket/connectors as far as signal is concerned.
 
Graham,

The use of "F sockets" for aerial outlets is probably the best way to proceed for maximum signal integrity, I`d suggest that if this is done, that the outlet is clearly labelled as UHF Aerial, otherwise Sky might come along at a future time and think it`s their lucky day !

I tend to replace "normal" coax outlets with plates that have a fully screened connector on the back for the incoming coax (these are available as either modular units, or full sized signle plates). On the ones I use, the socket itself is rather good quality, which means that the coax plug fits in soundly. I`ve never had an issue with using twist on coax plugs and these fully screened outlets. I haven`t tested it, but I suspect that there would be very little difference between this arrangement and using F socket/connectors as far as signal is concerned.

Hi Andy

It always seems a bit odd to me to specify top grade coax and then to fit a 90 year old connector to it rather than the type designed for the cable. In any case I find F connectors are much easier to fit than the conventional Belling Lees. I have loads of kit where the sockets are now so loose that it's hard to stop the cables falling out never a problem with F connectors.
 
Global Outlet plate (Non-isolated) - DASTV.co.uk

plus

Coax Aerial Plug Male Screw On Easy Fit - Detailed item view - Spares, Parts, Cables, Accessories, Gadgets

equals :thumbsup:

I`ve had very few, if any problems using these products. The aerial plugs never fall off the cable, or even become loose. Those plates are really good, unlike the ones where the socket goes "wobbly" after a year or two.

The loose sockets aren't in wallplates (avoid them wherever possible) which are easy to change but in kit like my Humax Freeview pvr which is not so easy to fix. There's 6 Belling Lee's on the rear of my Topfield 5800 alone, wish they were the more secure design.
 
The loose sockets aren't in wallplates (avoid them wherever possible) which are easy to change but in kit like my Humax Freeview pvr which is not so easy to fix. There's 6 Belling Lee's on the rear of my Topfield 5800 alone, wish they were the more secure design.

I don`t have any problems with the plates and plugs that I install (and believe me, if I did, I wouldn`t use them). I agree that the sockets on the back of equipment can be a bit "dodgy". F connectors would be a lot better, but the only problem would be that consumers (and probably myself !) would have more problems with getting connections mixed up.

I`ve always wanted RF2 out on Sky boxes to be an F connection, then there would be less "Hello, it`s Mrs Jones here. those room eyes that you installed last year have stopped working". Again, the problem might be that someone might connect the RF2 feed cable to the dish input socket. I wonder if room eyes and remote powered distribution amps would survive 18volts being fed into them ? I suppose having different types of sockets on the back of equipment lessens the risk of wiring erros/damage, but some connectors could be better designed.
 

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