Tv advice please (oled for mixed viewing?)

-Matt-

Active Member
My current tv is a Panasonic plasma (TX-P55VT50B). Picture quality is fairly nice but I'm looking to upgrade to 4k HDR and a larger size. I've loved the concept of OLED since they were first released and so I'm likely to go down that route.

For normal tv viewing the sofa is about 16ft from the tv. The room is fairly bright during the day but I don't consider daytime tv to be critical viewing and so THX bright mode has sufficed. I have self calibrated profiles (i1 display pro, hcfr) for evening viewing. Larger size and HDR are therefore likely to be the main benefits for normal tv (4k res will be wasted).

For gaming I sit about 1ft away from the screen! 4k will benefit here and I'm also hoping for sharper detail in motion (no trails behind moving objects and hopefully 4k 120Hz VRR - I'll be buying a PS5 when available).

For movie watching (which is the aspect of performance I care about most) I have the option of placing chairs about 8ft from the screen and fully darkening the room. (Though WAF will only allow this infrequently)! I mostly play blurays via a media pc.

Image problems that bother me most are near black handling (current plasma seems good for this), banding and posterisation, judder, unrealistic colors, horizontal artifacts near bright features i.e. credits (I'm fairly picky on image quality).

Models that I'm considering so far are Sony A90J 65", LG 65" G1 (although I'd need a stand as wall mounting is not possible), and I'm eagerly awaiting news on Panasonic JZ1500 65". Perhaps a 77" like Sony A80J could be better in my use case although I've been holding out for 4K 120Hz for a while now and I'd probably prefer one of the newer pro panels with a heatsink really.

Any recommendations or opinions?

Edit: Forgot to say I have a surround sound system so don't care about the tv sound performance at all.
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
You won't be getting many trails from objects using an OLED since they have next to no motion blur, that's whether you use VRR or not.

VRR will however reduce tearing in games.

I'd consider if you want value in your purchase not to consider newly released models right now as they are currently very overpriced. Instead look at stock from 2020 at a discount such as the LG CX.

If you do instead feel a 2021 model seems more appealing (for example, because of the new evo panel tech) my advice would be to wait to buy at a better time to get a nice discount, if you buy right now you can end up paying as much as 50% more due to inflated release pricing. More detail on that here:

From 2021 ranges and since you have a PS5 the Sony A90J or Panasonic JZ2000 would be suitable. Both TVs having cooling plates and use new EVO panels to get brighter than other OLED TVs. However you do pay a big premium for these TVs..not becuase of the panel, but things like premium built in sound, these TVs in most circumstances won't look that much better than the much cheaper OLED TVs.

TVs like the LG G1 do not have a cooling plate, so can't get as bright, although since you are a gamer you have plenty of reason to go LG instead just because they have better gaming centered features than Sony such as Dynamic Tone Mapping and HGIG support. Most games are also tested on LG OLED TVs, so with gaming as a priority, it just makes sense to get one.

To cut a long story short, the TV to buy currently for value for money, and the best all round choice would be the LG CX. Spend the money you save on something else instead, or upgrade your TV later, sooner.
 

-Matt-

Active Member
You won't be getting many trails from objects using an OLED since they have next to no motion blur, that's whether you use VRR or not.

VRR will however reduce tearing in games.

I'd consider if you want value in your purchase not to consider newly released models right now as they are currently very overpriced. Instead look at stock from 2020 at a discount such as the LG CX.

If you do instead feel a 2021 model seems more appealing (for example, because of the new evo panel tech) my advice would be to wait to buy at a better time to get a nice discount, if you buy right now you can end up paying as much as 50% more due to inflated release pricing. More detail on that here:

From 2021 ranges and since you have a PS5 the Sony A90J or Panasonic JZ2000 would be suitable. Both TVs having cooling plates and use new EVO panels to get brighter than other OLED TVs. However you do pay a big premium for these TVs..not becuase of the panel, but things like premium built in sound, these TVs in most circumstances won't look that much better than the much cheaper OLED TVs.

TVs like the LG G1 do not have a cooling plate, so can't get as bright, although since you are a gamer you have plenty of reason to go LG instead just because they have better gaming centered features than Sony such as Dynamic Tone Mapping and HGIG support. Most games are also tested on LG OLED TVs, so with gaming as a priority, it just makes sense to get one.

To cut a long story short, the TV to buy currently for value for money, and the best all round choice would be the LG CX. Spend the money you save on something else instead, or upgrade your TV later, sooner.

Thanks for the reply.

It feels like I've been waiting for a long time already; I guess I can hold out a bit longer. Especially as stock availability could be tricky at the moment anyway.

My worry is that by black friday we will have next generation fully hdmi 2.1 compliant models within sight and it would then be prudent to wait until the following black friday to buy one of those! Not sure I can hold out that long! This is a frustrating time for buyers.

I'd add that I'm only a casual gamer and also consider image quality and hdr when gaming to be of relatively low importance. (I'm happy to turn down image quality for higher frame rate and smoother motion). Image quality in dark room blu-ray viewing is my top priority. I've previously been put off LG oleds by the impression that they crush blacks and can be susceptible to flickering artefacts in dark scenes (but perhaps my knowledge is out of date here). Defects like this during critical viewing would be a show-stopper for me.

I've mentally accepted a budget of £3-4k although lower would be better, of course. Perhaps mistakenly I thought the A80J was a previous years model and this is why I though the 77" might be feasible for the same price as a newer 65" with the evo panel. Any advice/opinions concerning prioritising size over new hdmi 2.1 features and evo panel (given my viewing distances etc)?

Edit: By the way, I'm sure you are right that the CX would offer better value (also wouldn't need to buy a stand). And LG currently seem to be the closest to implementing hdmi 2.1 properly (with 4 ports and not requiring possible future updates for vrr etc) and with none of the current oleds offering 48gbps inputs (as far as I'm aware).

Also, I mentioned the JZ1500 since I understand this would have the evo panel and should therefore share the image quality of the JZ2000 but without the speakers and price tag. Of course, I have to wait and see how these review.
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
I'm not sure with the JZ1500, it may be like the LG G1 and come without a cooling backplate. Seems there are three tiers of OLEDs in the new ranges. The standard kind that are still using old panels. Those that are updated with the new panel, and those that use the new panel+cooling backplates.

Of course each time you step up you get improved picture quality, but I don't personally think it will be groundbreaking to justify the extra cost. LG did solve the near to black issues on the CX recently, took a while but they did do it.

I think if its movies>games then that's the reason to look at Panasonic instead who still seem to have the best image accuracy when it comes to HDR mode. Sony's are a bit more like LG, but they have the best motion.

You mention you don't care so much about HDR picture quality, but for SDR any of these TVs has already reached the pinnacle. There's no improvement going with Panasonic over LG for SDR use at all, both TVs are very accurate out of the box and TVs saturated the entire SDR colour spectrum a few years ago.

Can't see 48gbps mattering at all unless you're connecting up a computer for image or video editing.

Regarding size versus distance and picture quality I'd definitely place sheer size ahead of anything else. Its not a massive change having the evo panel. I'd personally go with a larger standard panel OLED over a smaller EVO panel one. 16 ft is a long way away to view, even from a large TV.
 

-Matt-

Active Member
Thanks again.

I thought you would likely favour the larger size over the newer panel but wanted to confirm.

The info about the evo panel on the JZ1500 was from here (of course we will have to wait for reviews to confirm). (It could be that the JZ1500 has the evo panel but no heatsink, as you suggest).

When I said I didn't mind too much about HDR image quality, I was referring only to gaming. I absolutely do consider HDR image quality to be of the highest importance for movie watching.

I'd likely be very happy to go with a Panasonic set (I've been happy with the last 2 plasmas). However, I have little confidence in their commitment to correcting issues (let alone adding new features) via firmware updates. In particular I'm refering to the half vertical resolution on 4k 120hz content. Whilst this is of lower importance to me than HDR movie viewing it will be a shame to have to a product that (relative to subsequent generations) will appear to be broken. I tend to make large tv purchases infrequently and hope that this will last many years.
 
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-Matt-

Active Member
By the way, I'm not sure about the reliability of the data on this site but when I check the price history for the 65" HZ1500 the launch price didn't seem to be too dramatically inflated. Prices were actually lower in October prior to Black friday. They didn't really drop until the following Feb.

Screenshot_20210607-175752_Firefox.jpg
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Its not entirely clear from that video whether the TV is going to have a cooling backplate or not. It only mentions the EVO panel. We will probably have to wait for tests of the JZ1500 and JZ2000 brightness figures to see if there's any difference.

Not sure if I made it clear enough, so my apologies if its confusing (its stupidly complicated) but:

Tier 1 OLED TVs include both EVO panel + cooling backplate. These will be TVs like the Sony A90J and Panasonic JZ2000 (unsure of the JZ1500 yet)
Tier 2 OLED TVs include only the EVO panel. These are TVs like the LG G1 (I'd say the HZ1500 is more likely to fit in this category).
TIer 3 OLED TVs include the standard panel.

To give an idea of the difference in picture quality between EVO and EVO+cooling backplate here's a comparison between the A80J (Tier 2) and A90J (Tier 3).
1623088939360.png

Notice the TV that includes the backplate can be as much as 200 nits brighter on average (real scene highlight).

-------
More rambling:

There's always a downside to each TV. With Panasonic have this problem with micro stutter occasionally in films, and they still have the infamous 50hz frame repeat bug they have had for years, even as far back as their Plasma days.

They also don't seem to have the resources of some larger companies, so there development of smart TV is quite poor, fixes and updates are rare. They are still using their own version of Firefox TV from 2016, which is one of the poorest smart systems, with the least amount of app choice out of all.

Regarding the VRR 120hz issue, the chipset used seems to have issues in every TV. Sony have the advantage of using it already in their 2020 models like the XH9005 and they seemed to have worked around the issue in 2021 ranges by including their own new picture processor that now works with HDMI 2.1. Perhaps a good reason to wait anyway until buying.

Release pricing is always a lot higher. I think that's a mistake in pricing by pricespy (perhaps a listing mixed the 55" with 65"?), since you can see the same TV was reviewed last year here with a current price of 3500:

Here's a graph from pricerunner:
1623088549976.png


TVs tend to get a small discount, or sometimes a promotion between release and Black Friday but its definitely a trend that they remain too expensive until later in the year. Its something that is practically always the case, usually with no exception. I can think only the Chinese manufacturers don't heighten their release prices so much, but the Japenese/South Korean ones definitely still do.
 

-Matt-

Active Member
Ah, that pricerunner data makes a lot more sense. Yes something must be wrong on pricespy.

I will keep my fingers crossed that the JZ1500 will turn out to be tier 1 (evo + heatsink) but I fear that you may be right and it will be evo panel only. If so, Panasonic will fall well down my leaderboard of new tv contenders! Especially since they don't offer 77" oleds.

The brightness difference between A80J and A90J is actually even higher than I thought (thanks for posting the data). I was starting to lean towards getting a larger tier 2 set rather than a 65" Tier 1; this gives me pause for thought. Nevertheless, I think you are right and the larger panel should win out overall (if my wife will agree to it)! 16ft is quite far away after all.

It is really good to hear that LG have improved their near black handling.

If the 77" LG CX is now top contender, what would be the Sony equivalent (and what would I be losing in terms of 4k 120hz etc relative to the newer models)? Any other 77" models to consider?
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Only the Sony 77AG9 which was a 2019 model they still produced in 2020. It doesn't have HDMI 2.1 at all so lacks VRR support completely. Also has a picture processor that's a year older than the A8H. Although its still a very good TV.

Thing is, with the AG9 you are paying for the premium built in sound more than anything, most people would take the CX over it if they have their own sound system.

The other 2020 models from LG like the GX and ZX are models that have no better picture quality, but better aesthetics/sound built in.

If you're looking at 21 models (for when prices come down) then Sony have the new A80J, LG with the C1 and B1 and Philips with the OLED806.

Its said that some LG C1s are coming with EVO panels that may be able to be unlocked unofficially. It all depends which plant the TV comes from.
As time goes on, its more likely there are more EVO panels on the C1 (despite them currently being locked to lower brightness levels) as LG move production to new methods.

Also has to be said that the new panels are not only brighter, but also more durable, which may be something you can consider if you also contemplated waiting to buy.
 
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-Matt-

Active Member
Thanks for the info.

It seems to be coming down to an LG CX 77" soon, or a 2021 model later.

I will have to do some reading of CX reviews and keep an eye on the 2021 prices. Thanks for helping to pass some of the waiting time until the purchase is finally possible! And for the advice, of course.
 

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