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TT 2.0 Herecy?!!

Discussion in 'Desktop & Laptop Computers Forum' started by Steve Bate, Oct 15, 2004.

  1. Steve Bate

    Steve Bate
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    Is it a case of the "emperors new clothes"? I've looked at TT 2.0 albeit in a non-production environment ie on my laptop rather than corrupt my "live" HCPC and I've tried overlay, VMR 7 & 9 and also dabled with ffdshow and can I tell the difference?

    Given I uninstalled 1.5.64 first I cant do a back to back so I dont really know.

    For ref my normal viewing is on a 6" screen via a BarcoGraphics 808s via my HCPC with a Mike Parker modded Rageon 9500Pro. TT 2.0 looks good on a 16" laptop, but it would wouldn't it? I'm not looking at condeming Andrew @ TT he will resolve all the issues outstanding, he's pretty much proved that historically, but is it that much better than all the hype?

    Comments welcome :devil:

    Steve
     
  2. embee

    embee
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    I've no comments on TT sorry,but i'm curious.....what's a "Mike Parker modded Rageon 9500Pro" ?
     
  3. Steve Bate

    Steve Bate
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    Mike Parker is an American who specialises is modifying Radeon Cards for use with CRT PJ's, he plays around with the filters and increases the voltage of the output stage, he also mods the cards to output via 75ohm bnc's rather than a HD15 connector.

    Steve
     
  4. embee

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    ah right, not suitable for me but thanks for the info :thumbsup: sorry for taking your thread o/t ;)
     
  5. KraGorn

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    So far it's proving too fragile on my system to be able to compare like-for-like with my 1.5/FFDSHOW setup .. 'out of the box' I think the nVidia codecs are a bit more detailed but it's hard to be sure I agree. I think the acid test will be to compare 1.5/ATI with 2.0/6600 where there's a good chance for some really impressive PQ improvement I think.

    I like the new UI to some extent, and the ability to play .TS files is nice, for £20 I'll be happy if/when it gets stable.
     
  6. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    If we get to a point where TT2 can become the sole player of media files it will be worth it. There's a few places I feel TT2 has been a bit of a let down. I'm disappointed that we don't have 7.1 in the audio pack, that would have been sensible given that it's available to power DVD users already.

    Also, theres far too many quirks, let alone the bugs. I spent ages trying to calibrate today, if you leave it just a few seconds the calibration controls disappear and the setting revert to the previous saved configuration. If you've save the configuration the Config Menu buttons stay up, there's one market EXIT, hit that and it exits the player.

    I'm not impressed with the Hi-Def performance, my (legal - mods) Hi-Def trailers show many visible horizontal lines at certain times. I used to get these using VLC from time to time but the blend filter fixed that. No such filters are apparant in TT2.

    I think we're a little way away from TT2 being what we expected it to be "out-of-the-box", but I bet it won't be long before we get pretty close to it.

    With my Radeon9600 I have to use overlay mode to get anything like reasonable performance with Hi-Def and WMV titles. MPG encoded Hi-Def trailers are as Jerky as hell.

    Not happy with it, but the DVD picture quality is still excellent, probably is better than before on my 10ft screen and I'll just have to keep using other players for anything else for now.

    They say you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs, well right now we've got a load of broken eggs, lets hope Andrew finds the recipe again soon.

    Mark.
     
  7. KraGorn

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    I think his beta testers let him down, many of the glitches people are seeing are pretty basic it's amazing they weren't picked up by the testers. Yes, I know they're un-paid and all that, but at present the product is still very much beta quality IMHO.

    Clearly Andrew's comment back in June aboutit being "a few weeks" was wildly optimistic.

    Still, as you say Mark, the basis is there for a good product.
     
  8. Paul D

    Paul D
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    I've observed that TT2.0 is slightly more detailed, but found better de-interlacing to be the most obvious difference.
    WMV-HD playback shows great potential, DRM/video controls bugs aside!
    I haven't had any major problems apart from the "acknowledged" ones.
    I activated the software on the first boot-up, and wonder if this is why i haven't had many problems?
    I'm upgrading to MediaCentreEdition2005 today, so didn't do much more testing.

    The patch fixing the initial bugs should also be out today.

    Just hope the switch to MCE2005 doesn't introduce new bugs, as not many users are using it yet!:suicide:
    (might actually fix some!)
     
  9. Mr.D

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    Changing the YUV to RGB mapping from PC 1-255 levels to sRGB 16-235 has made the roll off into the peak whites noticably smoother , I doubted this myself but it has made an improvement to the picture. Better video deinterlacing for sure.
     
  10. Rob.Screene

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    Chroma detail on the Bourne Identity DVD looked better too, reds on the warning front page were clearly cleaner, all at standard video settings in a Radeon 9500.

    I like the high-def 1080i .ts file playback I've seen, when combined with the aspect ratio controller to get exactly 1920x1080P or 1440x1080P, 1280x720P, etc.

    VLC would play them, but without any aspect/resolution controls.

    I also noticed TT2 played the HALO2 1080 .wmv trailer without big pauses, unlike the Windows Media 9 player(!) which pauses twice, dropping about 50 frames. This trailer is pretty well known for being the toughest WM9 playback challenge without a DRM license encryption.

    This is on a P4 2.8GHz/533 running at 3GHz/568fsb with 256MB of DDR400 CAS2-3-3 memory. Memory speed and fsb seem very important to 1080 playback BTW, the extra 7% timing really gets me out of trouble here.

    Only watched a few short clips mind and I know there's a bug navigating after 7mins in to a clip, but it looks very promising.

    cheers,
    Rob.
     
  11. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Where do you change this setting?

    Thanks,

    Mark.
     
  12. Mr.D

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    Its not a user control. If you look at a pluge pattern on video essentials ( or somthing with below black) you'll now see the below black bar. Previously on 1.5 you wouldn't as it clips the video values at 16 and 235 then maps them to 1 to 255. Now they are not clipped and mapped directly to 16 and 235 retaining any information beyond these points.

    Everyone I've spoken to is adamant that dvd should not contain useful info beyond 16 and 235 but retaining the headroom does seem to give a healthier mapping into rgb space.
     
  13. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Thanks for that Keith, once again a clear explatantion of what it is and why but.....Where/how do you change this setting from PC 1-255 to RGB 16-235? :)

    Are we simply talking re-calibrating using Avia etc. but with fancy words to confuse us mere mortals?;)

    Thanks,

    Mark.
     
  14. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    You can't change it. Its how the colourspace is mapped from YUV to RGB (sRGB). You will likely need to recalibrate your display (probably why some people are complaining of milky blacks.

    Incidentally I found the default TT 2.0 settings to be bang on for my radeon 9800 pro.
     
  15. UrbanT

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    I can only comment from a DVD playback perspective, as I don't use HD material, or need the audio pack. I didn't have any problems changing from 1.5 to 2.0, and all my old FFDShow settings worked OK first time. The only annoyance's I had were:

    . the left mouse button for play/pause (fixed in patch)
    . the 'top' menu 'exit' button actually exiting the player rather than menu (mentioned above). This is easy now the left hand mouse button is functioning again.

    For DVD's, playing both versions back to back, v2.0 does appear to offer greater depth in the picture. The colours seem slightly deeper and playback is very smooth.

    For my purpose, its been a good upgrade :)
     
  16. Steve Bate

    Steve Bate
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    It's always interesting to hear others when you cant do a back to back yourself. The patch has sorted out a lot of issues for me but I'm really struggling playing my ripped DVD's now thro' DVDLobby, 1.5.64 worked perfectly. Until I get this to work I wont be subjecting the picture to my PJ & Screen.

    Steve
     
  17. KraGorn

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    2.01 has fixed most things for me.

    Andrew just posted in the TT forum about a command-line change, there's now a /PL switch, I've no idea about problems with Lobby but maybe that's caused by this change?
     
  18. Steve Bate

    Steve Bate
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    Mario Cascio (Cinemar) has now got TT 2 so problems should be resolved pretty quickly.

    Steve
     
  19. KraGorn

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    Yes, I just saw your post and Andrew's answer .. I was coming back here to delete my pointless comment. :)
     
  20. cosmic023

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    Well i've gone back to TT v1.5.64 after v2 being very unstable (That's including the update patch)

    Faults so far........
    Couldn't get Girder / remote to work properly, very bad stutter from my DVD drive, colours were very over saturated / cartoon like, and OSD graphics were too big to fit on screen. Plus the fact my CPU kept maxing out at 100%, i don't get that with the earlier version.

    It does look like a great package (and Andrew has done a great job), but i'll stick with v1.5.64 till the bugs get sorted out.

    Just my thoughts.......
     
  21. Paul D

    Paul D
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    Mark,
    the new XP MediaCentreEdition "MCE2005" software maps to video levels(16-235), instead of PC levels(0-255)

    I too thought Keith(Mr D) had found a way to alter normal XP into doing video levels!
    Keith, are you talking about TT2.01 or XP?
    Please don't tell me i just wasted £80...! :rolleyes: :laugh:

    As i'm using DVI, WMV-HD video levels, used to have to be remapped within media player to PC levels.
    This conversion introduced banding in smooth colour transitions, like water/sky etc. And since WMV-HD has it's own false contouring in the lower bitrate scenes, made it near unwatchable.

    MCE has fixed the conversion problems, with WMV-HD looking fantastic.
    I have to run WMV-HD in VMR9, as overlay is trying to run back at PC levels.
    I think my system needs an update, as i'm still suffering the odd dropped frame even though i'm running at 48hz.
    The MCE remote is very good, and even lights up. It makes navigating the Media front end a breeze. The remote, even works some of TT2.01 functions!

    I've found a couple of new bugs with MCE2005 - TT2.01, mainly in TT2.01 video controls not working in VMR modes.(perfect in overly etc)

    I need to delve in a little deeper before i say anymore, but so far it seems as if MCE2005 is a must for any HTPC owner until/if XP goes video level.
     
  22. Mr.D

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    TT2.01 under XP with dvds using VMR7 ( VMR9 kills my installation with dvd but its fine for WMV) is definitely using 16-235. This is easily seen on VE ( the original one) as the pluge now displays the below black bar. This is with the video settings at default ( brightness 0 , don't know about contrast as it won't come up with VMR7)

    Can't speak for overlay at the moment as I've been too busy trying to get the rest of TT 2 working! However I know of no reasons why you couldn't get 16-235 working with overlay its just a question of specifyinf it in the transfer function ... I think.

    The WMV clips I ran through looked similar level wise , I didn't notice any increase in banding to be honest .

    I haven't yet got .ts working , nor reclock and this is with the latest patch.
    reverse play at any speed doesn't work for me either on dvds , it runs forwards instead!
     
  23. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    I'm dumping TT2.01. Going back to 1.5.
    TT2.0 has too many bugs to be useful.

    pausing loses sound on restart
    Pal looks soft and I don't like having to manually toggle between the two formats (talk about US centric).
    it has little losses of sync followed by jumps as it resyncs and reclock doesn't work.
    reverse does not work.

    Hate the flakey OSD : exit shuts down TT!
    Hate the timebar.

    Can't believe they shipped this without a manual.

    I beta test compositing software all the time at the work (Nuke at the moment) and I'm not doing it at home.
     

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