Trump Administration . " Its Impeachment then "

Trumps unique diplomacy, blessing or curse

  • I like his take no nonsense approach to politics

    Votes: 12 22.6%
  • He is still naive in the world of politics

    Votes: 3 5.7%
  • He is a real and present danger to geopolitics

    Votes: 36 67.9%
  • He is a catalyst for real global change

    Votes: 2 3.8%

  • Total voters
    53
  • Poll closed .

Pacifico

Distinguished Member
This is a different kettle of fish my friend and deep down you know this even though you will never admit such .

This is not US military might going for oil or regime change to benefit themselves. This was a coalition to take away the ISIS Caliphrate and it's threat to the west .

To declare victory when ISIS is still a clear and present danger to the west was stupidity on behalf of the Administration. Military and advisors in the region say as much .

To pull out and leave and leave the Kurds that have fought and and died along side US troops in this goal is a pussy move that the world now sees as a weak and back step administration .

For all the tough talk on Twitter don't make up for for a President that is a weak arsed gimp on the phone to his masters .

What a wimp .
Where is the EU Army?. You are very brave with the sons and daughters of other people but if you really believe that pulling western military troops out of the region is a mistake then I'm sure that the EU will fill the gap - after all Turkey is a candidate state for membership so they have an incentive to get involved.

Stopping the endless overseas wars that swallowed many american lives was a campaign promise by Trump - he is simply delivering to the people that elected him. If anyone in Europe doesnt like what he has done then Europe is free to get involved - although there seems to be no appetite for that from either the people of europe or the policitians.
 

Mevlock

Well-known Member
Where is the EU Army?. You are very brave with the sons and daughters of other people but if you really believe that pulling western military troops out of the region is a mistake then I'm sure that the EU will fill the gap - after all Turkey is a candidate state for membership so they have an incentive to get involved.

Stopping the endless overseas wars that swallowed many american lives was a campaign promise by Trump - he is simply delivering to the people that elected him. If anyone in Europe doesnt like what he has done then Europe is free to get involved - although there seems to be no appetite for that from either the people of europe or the policitians.

I'll sorry, have you mistaken this for the Brexit thread?

This is a thread about Donald Trump.
 

Pacifico

Distinguished Member
I'll sorry, have you mistaken this for the Brexit thread?

This is a thread about Donald Trump.
Indeed - and he is getting criticised for pulling US troops out of Syria. Exacly the same conflict where the UK Parliament voted to not send UK troops.

The hypocrisy is staggering.. :rotfl:
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
I'll sorry, have you mistaken this for the Brexit thread?

This is a thread about Donald Trump.
Waste of time. His post shows that he hasn't got the slightest clue what's actually going on.

Or he's a Trump supporter. Unfortunately they do exist on this forum.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
“They didn’t help us in the Second World War, they didn’t help us with Normandy."

There really are no words to describe all this anymore.
 

Pacifico

Distinguished Member
And here is Lady Nugee criticising Trump for pulling out the troops - and yes its the same Lady Nugee who voted against putting UK boots on the ground.. :rolleyes:

 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
Indeed - and he is getting criticised for pulling US troops out of Syria. Exacly the same conflict where the UK Parliament voted to not send UK troops.

The hypocrisy is staggering.. :rotfl:
What are you on about, there are British troups there in Syria
Hundreds of British special forces soldiers will be pulled out of Syria if the US military withdraws completely, The Times has learnt. US exit will mean British special forces leave Syria
 

Pacifico

Distinguished Member
What are you on about, there are British troups there in Syria
Hundreds of British special forces soldiers will be pulled out of Syria if the US military withdraws completely, The Times has learnt. US exit will mean British special forces leave Syria
They are there because Parliament had another vote in 2015 (which again Lady Nugee voted against) that did finally approve military intervention in Syria.

I dont mind people calling for UK and EU boots on the ground in foreign conflicts - I just find it rather hypocritical when people are calling for boots on the ground as long as they are someone else's.

Trump has decided to withdraw US troops - if the EU and anyone else are unhappy they are perfectly able to supplement those troops with their own. We will see how keen they are....
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
They are there because Parliament had another vote in 2015 (which again Lady Nugee voted against) that did finally approve military intervention in Syria.

I dont mind people calling for UK and EU boots on the ground in foreign conflicts - I just find it rather hypocritical when people are calling for boots on the ground as long as they are someone else's.

Trump has decided to withdraw US troops - if the EU and anyone else are unhappy they are perfectly able to supplement those troops with their own. We will see how keen they are....
if he’s simply fulfilling a campaign promise from 3 years’ ago, why did he (apparently) make the decision entirely independently without any recommendation or support from his many advisors/departments, and announce it on the spur of the moment via Twitter? When even Lindsay Graham is saying he was wrong to do it, that really says something.

It’s certainly a convenient media distraction from impeachment. Just a shame that he is playing with American soldiers’ lives to do it.

As for your ‘whatabout’ point about British boots and Lady Nugee, the point you’re missing is that Britain can be both against sending troops themselves in the first place, and against Trump playing at being a General for his own benefit, at the same time.
 

Pacifico

Distinguished Member
As expected the Guardian is criticising Trumps decision - the same Guardian who supported the Labour Party when they voted against UK involvement in Syria... :rolleyes:
 

Pacifico

Distinguished Member
if he’s simply fulfilling a campaign promise from 3 years’ ago, why did he (apparently) make the decision entirely independently without any recommendation or support from his many advisors/departments, and announce it on the spur of the moment via Twitter? When even Lindsay Graham is saying he was wrong to do it, that really says something.
Not sure that Libndsy Graham was ever a Trump supporter in the election - neat idea though..


As for your ‘whatabout’ point about British boots and Lady Nugee, the point you’re missing is that Britain can be both against sending troops themselves in the first place, and against Trump playing at being a General for his own benefit, at the same time.
You are talking about peoples lives here. To be against UK boots on the ground but to be in favor of US boots on the ground is pure hypocrisy and you should be ashamed.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
They are there because Parliament had another vote in 2015 (which again Lady Nugee voted against) that did finally approve military intervention in Syria.

I dont mind people calling for UK and EU boots on the ground in foreign conflicts - I just find it rather hypocritical when people are calling for boots on the ground as long as they are someone else's.

Trump has decided to withdraw US troops - if the EU and anyone else are unhappy they are perfectly able to supplement those troops with their own. We will see how keen they are....
The issue being discussed is not that the US is withdrawing troops, but that they are withdrawing them to allow Turkey to attack the former allies of the USA, the mainly Kurdish SDF who had the most troops on the ground in the fight against ISIS and suffered >10,000 casualties as a result.

SDF forces are currently holding roughly 11,000 ISIS detainees across more than 30 detention facilities, according to Marine Capt. Marisa Roberts, a spokeswoman for the the U.S.-led mission to defeat ISIS in Iraq and Syria known as Operation Inherent Resolve.

Among those detainees are also nearly 2,000 foreign fighters, “who would otherwise try to return to their home countries and plot attacks on innocent civilians,” Roberts said.
US withdrawal in Syria is only a small number of special operators, says Trump administration


That is several hundred ISIS fighters being kept out of the UK by the SDF who Trump has just stabbed in the back. Donald Trump has suggested he is not concerned some Isis fighters could escape in the chaos of a Turkish attack on Syria because they’re going to be escaping to Europe”. Trump not worried about Isis fighters fleeing Syria because 'they're going to be escaping to Europe'

And in another gem Trump said of the Kurds “They didn’t help us in the second world war, they didn’t help us with Normandy … but they’re there to help us with their land.” Turkish troops advance into Syria as Trump washes his hands of the Kurds
 

Pacifico

Distinguished Member
The issue being discussed is not that the US is withdrawing troops, but that they are withdrawing them to allow Turkey to attack the former allies of the USA, the mainly Kurdish SDF who had the most troops on the ground in the fight against ISIS and suffered >10,000 casualties as a result.

Well if you dont like it you can put other troops on the ground. Would you support the UK Army going in, or how about the Wehrmacht?
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
Well if you dont like it you can put other troops on the ground. Would you support the UK Army going in, or how about the Wehrmacht?
:facepalm::facepalm:
The Wehrmacht was disbanded in 1945 and officially dissolved in 1946. You are 73/74 years out of date with your knowledge of what is going on in the world. What a surprise...

The reason that other troops on the ground weren't needed was that the SDF did the job rather well: We would have not been successful against ISIS in Syria without them Former U.S. CENTCOM commander Ret. Gen. Joseph Votel.
 
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weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
Not sure that Libndsy Graham was ever a Trump supporter in the election - neat idea though..




You are talking about peoples lives here. To be against UK boots on the ground but to be in favor of US boots on the ground is pure hypocrisy and you should be ashamed.
As ever, you’re deliberately ignoring the point. Saying I should be ashamed is just deflecting from the fact Trump has single-handedly decided to leave the SDF behind to be slaughtered by Turkish air strikes, potentially because he was played by Turkey and Putin.
 

justincase

Well-known Member
I dont mind people calling for UK and EU boots on the ground in foreign conflicts - I just find it rather hypocritical when people are calling for boots on the ground as long as they are someone else's.
Yeah i don't think people are that keen to send their own sons and daughters of to fight and die in some dusty rubble strewn area of Northern Syria to clean up the mess of a failed US/Western attempted regime change..
Cavalier attitude to sending forces from other countries though when they won't be getting the knock at the door or the letter informing them their offspring is dead..
 

kav

Distinguished Member
According to some logic in here, deciding not to sh*te in someone else's bathroom is the same as deciding to take a big steamer in someone else's bathroom and then leave without flushing. 🤔
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
According to some logic in here, deciding not to sh*te in someone else's bathroom is the same as deciding to take a big steamer in someone else's bathroom and then leave without flushing. 🤔
Suggesting it as even logic, you actually do the word a disservice here! :laugh:

Beyond words,does he ever engage his brain,before he speaks o_O
He doesn't know how. Something just pops in there and he acts on it.

A megalomaniac Homer Simpson.
 

Pacifico

Distinguished Member
:facepalm::facepalm:
The Wehrmacht was disbanded in 1945 and officially dissolved in 1946. You are 73/74 years out of date with your knowledge of what is going on in the world. What a surprise...

The reason that other troops on the ground weren't needed was that the SDF did the job rather well: We would have not been successful against ISIS in Syria without them Former U.S. CENTCOM commander Ret. Gen. Joseph Votel.
Either foreign troops on the ground are needed or they are not - you cannot have it both ways. If you are bitching about Trump pulling out US troops then they can quite easily be replaced by troops from other nations should those other nations decide they want to get involved and put their citizens in harms way.
 

Pacifico

Distinguished Member
As ever, you’re deliberately ignoring the point. Saying I should be ashamed is just deflecting from the fact Trump has single-handedly decided to leave the SDF behind to be slaughtered by Turkish air strikes, potentially because he was played by Turkey and Putin.
If you think that pulling western troops out of Syria is going to have that effect then simply replace them with other troops - step up to the plate and stop sending other countries kids to die.
 

Mevlock

Well-known Member
We shouldn't have to step in and clean up America's mess.

American troops got involved and they should see it through. Especially since it will leave American allies worse off and the threat to America increased.

I have no problem with Trump refusing to get involved in future conflicts. But he represents everyone in America not just those who voted for him and he should be taking the security of the whole of America into consideration when making these decisions.

I wasn't happy about our involvement in the Iraq war but once we were involved I was against pulling out until the country was in a secure a state as possible.

There is no hypocrisy at all in the criticism Trump is getting. You can be against Americans getting involved in conflicts around the world and at the same time be against them prematurely pulling out leaving allies abandoned and matters in an even worse state.
 

Pacifico

Distinguished Member
We shouldn't have to step in and clean up America's mess.

American troops got involved and they should see it through. Especially since it will leave American allies worse off and the threat to America increased.

I have no problem with Trump refusing to get involved in future conflicts. But he represents everyone in America not just those who voted for him and he should be taking the security of the whole of America into consideration when making these decisions.

I wasn't happy about our involvement in the Iraq war but once we were involved I was against pulling out until the country was in a secure a state as possible.

There is no hypocrisy at all in the criticism Trump is getting. You can be against Americans getting involved in conflicts around the world and at the same time be against them prematurely pulling out leaving allies abandoned and matters in an even worse state.
Well I admire your optimism that conflict in the Middle East is going to end sometime soon just as long as the Yanks stick around a bit longer, but I would suggest that you are not being totally in touch with the reality of the situation. The Middle east has been in conflict for thousands of years, whether there were foreign troops on the ground or not has made very little difference.

Trump made a promise to the US electorate to bring home the troops after ISIS were defeated - well ISIS have been militarily defeated and he is doing what he was elected to do. There was nothing about staying in the region to protect the Kurds so if that is what you want then perhaps you should camapign to send UK troops in and allow them to face the danger.
 

Mevlock

Well-known Member
Well I admire your optimism that conflict in the Middle East is going to end sometime soon just as long as the Yanks stick around a bit longer, but I would suggest that you are not being totally in touch with the reality of the situation. The Middle east has been in conflict for thousands of years, whether there were foreign troops on the ground or not has made very little difference.

Trump made a promise to the US electorate to bring home the troops after ISIS were defeated - well ISIS have been militarily defeated and he is doing what he was elected to do. There was nothing about staying in the region to protect the Kurds so if that is what you want then perhaps you should camapign to send UK troops in and allow them to face the danger.

“ISIS is not defeated, my friend. The biggest lie being told by the administration is that ISIS is defeated,” Senator Lindsey Graham told “Fox and Friends” in a phone call Monday. “The Caliphate is destroyed, but there’s thousands of fighters” still there.

Representative Peter King, a Republican from New York, tweeted that the move “betrays Kurds, strengthens ISIS and endangers American homeland.”

But sure, it's MISSION ACCOMPLISHED..... again.
 

Mevlock

Well-known Member
What the UK should or shouldn't do is irrelevant to this this thread.

But if we had been involved in the way America is then yes I would be against us pulling our right now.
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
If you think that pulling western troops out of Syria is going to have that effect then simply replace them with other troops - step up to the plate and stop sending other countries kids to die.
Again, not the issue at hand. Simply trying to point the finger of hypocrisy towards me, when you can't even see the bigger issue of the US President apparently deciding on his own to pull out troops and leave their allies in the middle of airstrikes, is blatant deflection.

I don't disagree with US troops pulling out, but it should be a planned strategy, in partnership with the SDF who have been supporting them, rather than yet another paddy from Trump which is clearly only in the best interests of other nations (and probably his own bank balance with Trump Inc in Turkey).
 

justincase

Well-known Member
rather than yet another paddy from Trump which is clearly only in the best interests of other nations (and probably his own bank balance with Trump Inc in Turkey).
Isn't that how politics work,,,parent comes to some arrangement with a country then the off spring roll in and collect the money..:D




You've mentioned Russia benefiting from this withdrawal and the best interests of other countries etc but what real benefit is there in US troops remaining.are they only there putting right a failed regime change that they and the west apparently orchestrated..

Genuine question.....Has Trump removed any of the troops from Syria,,seen reports that approx 50 have been moved out of the 1000 who are still there
 

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