Question True 120hz 4k television for PC use

Discussion in 'What Is The Best TV For You?' started by Roxette, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. Roxette

    Roxette
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    I am interested in a true 120hz 4k television
    Budget : 1000GBP
    Brand : indifferent
    Size : 46" +
    Usage : Mainly gaming, content recording, some graphics work, general PC activities
    Sitting distance : Roughly one meter at desk / roughly three meters to couch
    Panel type : See question below
    HDR : See question below
    Freesync/Gsync : See question below
    Research : Too much to list (includes monitor knowledge as well and yes I have read through Guide: HDR TVs for gamers - 2016 Edition obviously some still applies)


    • There's concern that some televisions are not true 120hz and it's a marketing attempt(not to be confused with the old Plasma 600hz black frame fiasco). How can you tell the difference and discern?
    • Though claimed to be HDR capable, many models such as the Hisense H65U7AUK are really 8-bit that can accept 10-bit content and thus display HDR content (as opposed to actual 10-bit+ dynamic metadata) This is not an issue as far as I am aware though in the future will HDR games use the 10-bit +?
    • Does 10-bit/ HDR still cause added input lag versus standard 8-bit FCR for televisions?
    • Since VA panels in quality televisions are good(or at least better seemingly than their PC monitor counterparts), is it appropriate to go with VA to get that rich black and high contrast for a television used solely for PC?
    • Has anyone used a television for gaming at a non native resolution? When doing this on PC monitors, it often leads to noticeable blurry images and isn't merely case of things appearing larger. Does this also happen on the televisions?
    • There are Freesync capable television models though no Gsync ones and presumably Gsync will eventually get folded into some version of a VESA standard in the future. Yet the Freesync panels are not consistent in their performance and not held to certification as with Gsync products. Additionally, Freesync apparently only works at 1080p on the televisions?
      Is the Freesync technology in all 2018 televisions Freesync 2?

    • Connectivity would be over HDMI 2.0 or HDMI 2.1 to achieve 120hz at 4k? Modern GPUs do not yet support HDMI 2.1 and are still on HDMI 2.0b3.
    • 8k televisions are apparently coming, and also there's improvements for 4k televisions as per the recent CES extravaganza. Is it unreasonable or a bad time to buy now?
    • And what are your recommendations? So far I have been instructed to look at the :
    Q6FN series and NU8000 series. Both seem really close together and come with Game mode, HDR(8-bit), reasonable input lag and local dimming (edge lit) and Freesync 2
    Though one considerable difference would be that Q6FN has 120hz support at 120fps where as the NU8000 is only 60.

    What would the Q6FN/NU8000 series be comparable to in Dodge's HDR 2016 guide?

    H55U7AUK same as NU8000 from what I can tell minus the Freesync.


    Thank you
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  2. Angelo M

    Angelo M
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    The Q6FN is the best TV among the ones you mentioned.

    It has 120 HZ, 10 bits QLED panel with good blacks and vivid colors. :)

    .
     
  3. Roxette

    Roxette
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    Yes, all sans the 49" which is 60hz.
     
  4. zeppelino

    zeppelino
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    Save money and get the NU8000 in 55” and above. Q6 not worth the premium.

    Only certain Samsung models support freesync, no other brands currently do - this will change with 2019 ones being announced but they’ll be overpriced.

    8/10 bit doesn’t really matter.
     
  5. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    Televisions don't have 120hz panels for the same reason computer monitors do. They have them to interpolate and insert frames to improve motion on low frame rate content. Its only recently that some TVs have accepted a 120hz signal. Best thing to do is ignore any manufacturer specs unless it specifically mentions "panel hz". The crazy figures are just made up estimations of how they think their software performs.
    There is far more to HDR picture quality that bit depth, bit depth isn't important at all really.
    No.
    If you don't need wide viewing angles its fine. Response times won't be as fast as a computer monitor but I have used numerous TVs in this way without a hitch.
    It doesn't look great at all, but it looks better than on a computer monitor because the picture processing is better.
    You would expect it would merge into a universal format but I don't think it will be happening any time soon with Nvidia releasing large G-Sync compatible displays soon. Much like with computer monitors you have to pay a lot for a G-Sync display.
    It will be HDMI 2.0 and adaptive sync isn't officially supported by the HDMI 2 spec at all, its only Samsung that have enabled it. There is no completed HDMI 2.1 spec yet but they included the feature on their HDMI 2.0 TVs with 120hz panels (55 & NU8000 and up).
    The best time to buy is always buying a model in clearance from the year before, TVs are usually released between spring and summer this year so that is when the best time to buy a 2018 model will be. The 2019 models will be as much as 50% more expensive.
    If you place importance on HDR you need to set your heights higher than a TV like the Samsung Q6FN or NU8000, they will perform only "ok" with HDR but not spectacular. The best bang for buck TV for HDR is the Sony XF9005 or LG B8 OLED, but with those you lose 1440p support at 120hz, motion interpolation in game mode and Freesync.

    Sticking to Samsung really to compete with the Sony XF9005 with HDR you need to spend a lot more, the Samsung Q8DN is most comparable but the Q7FN or Q8FN sit somewhere between if you want a compromise, but as you will see, you pay a lot more for less HDR performance with Samsung.
     
  6. Roxette

    Roxette
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    Thank you.

    Yes, it seems the QxFN series are the more common sets with actual 120 panel hz though not the 49" Q6FN.

    I would go up to the Q7FN, as it matches the Q8FN/DN in terms of general performance, though only comes in 55" or larger and from what I can gather local dimming is noticeably better with the Q8FN/DN or higher due to full array, yett the budget gets noticeably stretched.

    It seems my choices are between 60hz with good imaqe quality/processing or 120hz with reduced IQ and that still not 4k at 120hz. It's a shame that the sets cannot overdrive to at least 75hz as that's quite an improvement over 60.

    Choice is now :

    Cheap - 49Q6FN
    Higher - 55Q7FN vs. 55B8

    EDIT: I was under the impression burn-in is not a thing for OLEDs any longer though there's specific mention of it for the B8 series. What are your thoughts? As a computer monitor effectively, it would be on a static image fairly often. I'd loathe having to always worry about 'afkng' from the PC.

    Also, B8/OLED have an issue with text when used with PCs due to WRGB. Maybe OLED isn't the right choice for PC use.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  7. Dodgexander

    Dodgexander
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    No they are not. Most mid range 55" models have 120hz panels.
    There is no point considering a 49" TV from Samsung if you want a 120hz panel because none of them have 120hz panels at this size. For that you need to go with Sony with their XF87/XF85/XF90 TVs for VA panels or LGs SK8500 for an IPS panel.

    The Samsung Q8DN is more similar to the Sony XF9005 in performance but its usually too expensive against the higher end Q9FN to be considered good value.

    The Samsung Q8FN has the same performance as the Q7FN.

    The Samsung Q6FN has the same performance as the NU8000 minus a wider colour gamut (few %, only beneficial with HDR)
    How are you comparing image quality or processing? What do you want in terms of image processing from a TV when you are going to run it as a computer monitor?
    Its no different to how it has always been on self emissive displays. There are measures you can take to reduce the risk such as a screensaver. Phones come with OLED displays and you don't often here reports of burn in on those even though their use contains more static elements than a PC monitor. There was also an Alienware 13 Laptop sold with an OLED screen. It can happen if you don't think about leaving static elements on the TV but I wouldn't worry about using an OLED as a monitor unless you can't help but not have a screen saver and leave static elements on the screen. Some people just don't like the idea of having to think about and just opt not to get an OLED, its up you!

    Its not a problem like it is with their LCDs using WRGB panels because the pixels are a lot smaller.

    So in summary:

    1. If you don't want to worry about burn in, don't get an OLED.
    2. If you can't fit 55" then don't look at Samsung. Look at Sony and LG models listed above instead but you'll have to choose between IPS (LG SK8500) and VA (Sony XF85 and higher) at this size.
    3. Its always better to go bigger if you can, more choice, more benefit to UHD. It will be hard for you to read text on an UHD TV without having to use poor quality scaling unless you are very close to a large TV.
    4. Some TVs are cheap at 55" and have 120hz panels but no ability to accept the signal. A good example of this would be the Hisense U7A which is a fantastic value TV but can't accept 120hz over HDMI.
    5. You're always going to be limited to 1080p or 1440p at 120hz with reduced chroma and no "full" RGB range anyway due to HDMI bandwidth constraints, this especially holds true for 1440p support on the Samsungs that only work with 4:2:0 chroma. With this in mind you may just be better off delaying your purchase until HDMI 2.1 becomes available. It may be this year but is looking more like the year after now.
    6. If HDR is important to you don't worry about bit depth and think instead about the qualities that make one TV better at displaying HDR than the next. For instance the Sony XF9005 with good local dimming is going to display HDR much better than the Samsung Q7FN. Even though the Samsung Q7FN gets brighter and has slightly better colours with HDR, it doesn't have good local dimming.
    7. HDR on windows and PC games in general is really buggy right now and not supported very well, expect problems with drivers etc trying to use it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  8. Analysis

    Analysis
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    Input Lag of TVs

    Scroll down and you will see what sets can accept a [email protected] signal.

    Once HDMI 2.1 is finalised then we will see [email protected]

    You might be better off going for one of the Asus or Samsung wide display monitors which are due to come out later in the year, and they should be within your budget.
     
  9. Roxette

    Roxette
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    Thank you all again. I will take this under advisement and at least wait till spring.
     

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