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Trouble with ICS over wireless

Discussion in 'Networking & NAS' started by Mr.D, Jun 29, 2003.

  1. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Hi guys could do with a hand.

    After much messing about I finally got my two PCS ( serios workstation and HTPC) talking to each other over a couple of belkin 54g wireless PCI cards. Reception is normally reliable however it is normally very very low ie about 1-2Mbps instead of the mooted 54 ( I think).

    However I've managed to get files back and forth no problem and lets face it even 2Mbps is an improvement over my 56k dialup modem. So I follow the instructions on setting up ICS : workstation is host htpc is client. Great I thought now I can load patches direct to the htpc and do a little browsing without clunking up and downstairs.

    Cannot get the client pc to access the web . Explorer just gives the DNS error for no connection.

    ICS is supposed to be very simple to set up but I can't see anything else to do. Is it perhaps because of the noisy nature of my wireless LAN ( even at its min speed surely its fine for a dialup).

    Next thing to try is bringing the HTPC downstairs next to the host machine ( real pain did this twice to get the cards working in the first place)

    help me please
     
  2. salacious

    salacious
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    I previous had problems with using different version of Windows and ICS. One thing to check it to run ipconfig /all (if using NT4, 2000 or XP) or winipcfg (95/98/Me) and check what the DNS servers are on both PCs. You should be able to ping an external IP address (e.g. 128.9.0.107) from both PCs, if you can't there is something wrong with the ICS setup. If you can check the the DNS servers are set correctly and you could try to ping b.root-servers.net.

    Let me know how you get on
     
  3. JohnS

    JohnS
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    With ICS you check the box which shares the connection which automatically sets that machines ip to 192.168.0.1 and makes it a dhcp server to give out ip's for the other machine/s. If you have put a static ip on the HTPC then you need to fill in the dns server addresses of your isp or you'll get dns errors. If you allow it to get the ip from the "server" then you dont need the dns either.
     
  4. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Thanks for the advice much appreciated.

    I'll run ipconfig on both machines to check.
    The port on the host is set to obtain IP and DNS addresses automatically as is the client. Client is setup to never dial a connection and the LAN settings are all cleared .

    ICS and on demand dialing is enabled on my dialup connection on the host . ( I don't have to change anything on the wireless com port I assume).

    Thanks for the advice about pinging an outside ip address makes sense. I'm thinking it must be some issue with allocating addresses to the client.
     
  5. TEK

    TEK
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  6. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    You know sometimes it works fine. I can pull files back and forth from machine to machine no problem ( just did it with the latest download of Dscaler in fact). Then other times it won't work at all. Either I can see both machines in network places but get an unreachable error on the remote machine or its simply not there. Meanwhile the belkin utilty is happily telling me what the data transfer rate is in spite of the fact I can't ping the machines.

    Sometimes the machine locks up on log in and the only thing that will sort it is to turn the cards off (both machines). Then instantly everything unlocks.

    Having the machines next to each other doesn't improve things ( the data rate improves but the connection itself is still unpredictable and thats about it)

    You know what I get better overall transfer speed with a cdrw and my legs!

    As for ICS ..forget it .... I had a bash at looking into static IP addresses and DNS servers and DHCP but then I fell asleep ( also trying to track down a static IP address when it becomes obvious after 1 hour of tweaking about that both machines are changing at every boot up is just an enchanting experience).

    I'm for spending more time with the wife and kids.
     
  7. TEK

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    I get the same sometimes on my Belkin setup through a 54g router, 1 pci and 1 pcmcia. Wont connect, keep trying and on the 4th go it connects even though I have a steady 48-54mbps connection. Just one of the glitches of an unfinished protocol... or wireless networking in general.

    Still it's nice to take the laptop into the garden to get away from the wife and kids
     
  8. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    See its up fine at the moment. Just pulled some files over no problem. ICS is still knackered though and I can't find anything else left to do.
     
  9. salacious

    salacious
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    Here are the ICS settings that I have in the office
    PC1 (with ICS) is connected to the Internet
    Local IP is 192.168.0.1 Subnet 255.255.255.0
    DNS from ISP(Tiscali) 212.74.114.193, 212.74.112.66

    PC2
    Local IP is 192.168.0.2 Subnet 255.255.255.0
    DNS (from ICS) 192.168.0.1

    Does this help?
    Tell me what settings that the 2 PCs have
     
  10. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Thanks man stay tuned it'll take me a couple of days . The missus is about ready to dicorce me if I spend any more time on the wireless issue at the moment.
     
  11. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    OK I'm pretty sure the IP addresses on both my machines change every time I boot them.

    The subnet mask for the host PC is 255.255.0.0 (is this a problem?)

    The subnet mask for my dialup is 255.255.255.255 (again is this a problem..isp is LineOne which is Tiscali also.


    Just doing some experimentation to see if the local IP addresses are rotating ( I'm assuming the ISP one won't).
     
  12. feet14

    feet14
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    You might want to try a proxy server program if you can't get ICS working properly. The disadvantage is that (at least for me) they are a bit difficult to setup (especially for email). I used Spoonproxy which worked ok though it sometimes needed to be restarted.
     
  13. owain_thomas

    owain_thomas
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    I don't think it's possible to use Microsoft's ICS (as it comes with XP Pro) with static IPS. It has to have the PC connected to the net as 192.168.0.1 and it also has to have DHCP turned on and allocate the IPs of other machines dynamically.

    I've started using wingate as this allows the specific configuration I need.

    If I'm wrong about this I'd really like to know so that I can get rid of wingate, but I could find no way of doing it without third party software.

    Owain
     
  14. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Ah DHCP isn't enabled on the host machine!
    Just tried manually asigning IP addresses ...no joy.
     
  15. salacious

    salacious
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    As long as the range overlaps between the machines it wont be a problem. They both need the same mask, if you have a class B mask (255.255.0.0) it just means that you can have 65000 PCs on your network rather than 254 with a class C mask (255.255.255.0)

    Dial up subnet masks are always 255.255.255.255 and this isn't a problem.

    I use to use Wingate before ICS was available. It works great.
     
  16. owain_thomas

    owain_thomas
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    Does anyone know if I'm right about not being able to use static IPs and MS ICS? I can't get my active desktop elements to work with wingate and I can't use my xbox as a network media player with the DHCP used by MS ICS :(

    Thanks
    Owain
     
  17. TEK

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    You can use use them on standard networking ok but I've never tried on wireless although I'm sure I've read somewhere that somebody has. In fact the only way they could get theirs going properly was with static
     
  18. JohnS

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    You can use static ips with ICS. As you said the host machine is automatically added with 192.168.0.1 with a subnet 255.255.255.0 (although I dont think it shows if you do the tcp/ip properties). Manually set the other machines with ip 192.168.0.2 or 3or 4 etc with same subnet, the 192.168.0.1 as the gateway but you do have to also set the DNS servers of your isp on the non host machines otherwaise you will be able to connect but not get any web pages.

    This does work! I have had it working with W98, W2K and XP but now use a router for broadband as it saves having the host machine switched on. The XP host is the best option as it allows the use of the built in firewall which is easy to configure (tick the box) which although not great is better than nothing.

    Keith, another possibility with dns errors, have you got a firewall on either machine?
     
  19. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    I've got zonealarm on both machines. It doesn't run on the client as a matter of course (used to when it was doubling as HTPC and internet browsing machine but not anymore).

    Its normally operational on the host but I always disable it when I'm trying to get ICS working.

    When I get the time I'll go at it from scracth and set-up static IPs. I'm a little bit vague on the DNS aspect of things but suspect its fairly simple.

    My dial up was set-up on the client machine as it was used with a modem originally. I blew it away in case it was causing a problem. Am I right in thinking that I need to set it up again ? Any parameters I should change? ( the computer seems to remember all the relevant settings if I go through the wizard setup anyway.
     
  20. salacious

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    My friend had ZoneAlarm on his ICS server. He had to disable it sometimes to get ICS to work. Major pain, it should of worked but it didn't.
     
  21. JohnS

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    Keith, the DNS servers will just be two more ip addresses that you get from your ISP which you enter in the tcp/ip properties below the ip address of the card and the gateway.

    I think you need to get everything working without a firewall before you attempt to add it back in.

    You're using W2K?
     
  22. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    yep W2K.

    I ddi give it a whirl with static IPs and the DNS servers were the IP addresses of the dialup account ( found through ipconfig). It still didn't work but its not beyond possibility that I muffed something up along the way. ZoneAlarm has always been disabled (not running) when I've been mucking around with ICS. Still no joy.

    The only other thing I've thought of was I went through a W2K optimisation guide for video editing on the videoguys website on both machines but all the services I disabled were changed from auto to manual rather than disabled so would request a prompt rather than jsut not work. I've checked both machines and there were only "manuals" no disabled.

    IPconfig on the host returns that DHCP isn't enabled ??? Not a problem?
     
  23. JohnS

    JohnS
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    If DHCP isn't enabled then you definitly have to use static IP on the slave machine/s. Sounds like you have disabled it in the system services as it is normally enabled by default when you turn on ICS.

    Just run ipconfig on my xp machine which connects through my router (which is also a proxy dns server) and that doesn't show the outside dns addresses?

    If you go to your isp's website you'll find the dns servers primary and secondary addresses there.
     
  24. salacious

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    ICS is a stripped down version of DHCP server (I may be wrong here). I have set up DHCP servers before (on NT4 Server and W2K server) and it is a seperate installable service. When I set up ICS on W2K server, DHCP Server was not installed. What DHCP/ICS servers do is to have a pool of IP address that it can allocate to client PCs. The PC which connects to the Internet gets its DNS servers IP address from the ISP (it is a DHCP client). The DNS server address it gives to the client PCs is its own IP address. I don't think static IPs will work with ICS but I have never tried it.

    I hope the above makes some sense
     
  25. JohnS

    JohnS
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    As far as setting up DHCP is concerned W2K server is different in this respect to W2K pro or XP and W98. Yes with W2K server you do have to set up DHCP seperatly.
     
  26. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Hmm when my dial up is active on the host it returns the DNS server IP addresses for my ISP no problem ( one is the same as TEKs ...both of us are on Tiscali/LineOne).

    I'll get a chance to fiddle over the weekend.
     
  27. owain_thomas

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    yeah, the funny thing for me was that when I changed from DHCP to static IPs and entered the DNS addresses it all worked fine, then I restarted and nothing worked - going back to DHCP fixed everything though. From reading the MS blurb on XP's version of ICS it seems that DHCP HAS to be on for it to work from startup - changing it mid-session seems a bit cumbersome...

    again, if any one can confirm or refute these assumptions please do - I'd much rather use the built-in ICS if possible, just seems to me that it's not.

    Owain
     
  28. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Ok I managed to finally get ICS working... for all of about 10 minutes. I had everything configured the recommended way ie set IP allocation to automatic in all the relevant areas. The only strange thing I did was click the ICS option on my LAN connector ( I then got a warning about the assigned IP address changing and that ICS was already enabled for the dialup) so I cancelled that. Sure enough this seems to have enabled things even though no actual settings have changed.

    Managed 1 search in google and tried to repy here before I lost the connection.
    I think my wireless connection is so patchy that i drops out every so often and because of th eautomatic IP assigning teh IP address is changing every time the wireless connection comes back. So now I'll try assigning static IP addresses ( My LAN on the host is giving the expected standard IP address 192.168.0.1 after ICS is enabled on the dial up)
     
  29. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Just an update. I've got everything working smoothly now. I can surf the net on either my laptop or htpc using a wireless connection to my desktop PC using ICS.

    The host has a manually asigned IP address and the clients are dynamically asigned. Manually asigning the clients seems to screw things up.

    I can also now use radmin fomr my HTPC to my laptop ( saves powering up the projector) and this again all works fine using dynamic IP addresses ( in fact asigning manual ones instantly breaks things).

    Now all I need to do is improve the range on my wirless network a bit as it can be patchy at distance. ( old house thick walls)

    many thanks
     
  30. Steve Bate

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    Keith, I needed to improve the range in my WLAN also and put a new aerial on the Access Point, made a hell of a difference!!

    Steve
     

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