Trinnov ST2 HiFi vs Lyngdorf RP

You are absolutely correct. However do we know what the difference is between my generation of RP and the current?

And to complicate the issue further; my first step was to compare a modern TDAI machine directly with RP1 + my dac + my preamp. The latter clearly sounded better to my ears, it wasn't a small difference and thats despite multiple additional AD DA conversions.

So in order in ascending order

1) TDAI sounded the worst (I don't mean it sounds bad by an means, it's just the ranking)

2) My Legacy RP1 + my dac + my preamp + my amp

3) Trinnov + my dac + my preamp + my amp

This is just what I've found in my system and to my ears, and I don't have golden ears. However it's not a scientific experiment conducted under lab conditions so all manner of known unknowns and unknown unknowns lol exist.

Make of the whole thing what you will or even ignore the whole thing as garbage (a valid position btw). However knowing my system, my room and my music very well I have come to the conclusion that Trinnov when paired with other high level electronics sounds significantly better the a RP1 with the same electronics or a TDAI.

Regards

I always learned that if you want to compare, only change one element in the chain. You could have tried the modern TDAI with your DAC, preamp and amp and my expectation is that with this setup you wouldn't doubt that RoomPerfect has not evolved a lot. There is a lot of processing power needed for DRC and this is much more easily and less costly implemented nowadays compared to over ten years ago. And this is only one aspect.
 
I always learned that if you want to compare, only change one element in the chain. You could have tried the modern TDAI with your DAC, preamp and amp and my expectation is that with this setup you wouldn't doubt that RoomPerfect has not evolved a lot. There is a lot of processing power needed for DRC and this is much more easily and less costly implemented nowadays compared to over ten years ago. And this is only one aspect.


Completely agree, it's very difficult when you make these kinds of comparisons; so many variables.
However I wasn't aware you could bypass the volume control on the TDAIs and use a preamp. Can that be done? So you can use a TDAI purely for its Room Perfect?
 
Completely agree, it's very difficult when you make these kinds of comparisons; so many variables.
However I wasn't aware you could bypass the volume control on the TDAIs and use a preamp. Can that be done? So you can use a TDAI purely for its Room Perfect?

Yep, home theater mode.
 
I feel the urge to repeat myself so people reading this thread understand correctly: you did not compare Trinnov room correction with the current iteration of Lyngdorf's RoomPerfect. You did compare Trinnov to the first stand-alone RoomPerfect processor (the RP-1) Lyngdorf introduced in 2005 or 2006 if I remember correctly. Over 13 years ago and light years in modern electronics. Just to sketch the right context.

Hi Sanderweb, can I check I'm properly understanding the implication of what you've written? It seems to me - if new products evolve in the same way as the evolution from RP1 to TDAI - then you're saying that if I were to purchase a TDAI today, I would not have the same version of Room Perfect that newer products would have, once they came out. i.e. that Lyngdorf products do not allow for upgrades as the room correction software develops?
 
Hi Sanderweb, can I check I'm properly understanding the implication of what you've written? It seems to me - if new products evolve in the same way as the evolution from RP1 to TDAI - then you're saying that if I were to purchase a TDAI today, I would not have the same version of Room Perfect that newer products would have, once they came out. i.e. that Lyngdorf products do not allow for upgrades as the room correction software develops?

The software part of RoomPerfect is upgradeable and new, improved versions have been offered by Lyngdorf several times. I believe this was also the case for the RP-1, it was definitely so for the TDAI-2200, a unit more or less from the same generation and a product I owned. Lyngdorf stopped further development when these products became discontinued.
 
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I feel the urge to repeat myself so people reading this thread understand correctly: you did not compare Trinnov room correction with the current iteration of Lyngdorf's RoomPerfect. You did compare Trinnov to the first stand-alone RoomPerfect processor (the RP-1) Lyngdorf introduced in 2005 or 2006 if I remember correctly. Over 13 years ago and light years in modern electronics. Just to sketch the right context.

Actually Trinnov ST2-Hi-Fi was released somewhere in 2009-2010, it was first product Trinnov did for the consumer market and they did no hardware updates for it, as far as I know. So pretty fair comarison, no? :)
 
Actually Trinnov ST2-Hi-Fi was released somewhere in 2009-2010, it was first product Trinnov did for the consumer market and they did no hardware updates for it, as far as I know. So pretty fair comarison, no? :)

I have no problems with the comparison, only wanted to put things into perspective. People might generalise the findings and be misled by the title of the thread.

BTW, the Trinnov ST2 is still the actual two channel product of the company and, most probably, kept up-to-date software-wise, the Lyngdorf RP-1 isn't.
 
Completely agree, it's very difficult when you make these kinds of comparisons; so many variables.
However I wasn't aware you could bypass the volume control on the TDAIs and use a preamp. Can that be done? So you can use a TDAI purely for its Room Perfect?

Your question got me thinking (again): why didn't you keep the signal all digital when utilising the ST-2? So, put the ST-2 before your DAC? This should lead to (much) better results because you'll eliminate the extra A/D and D/A.

A TDAI can used the same way for RoomPerfect only: digital in, digital out.
 
Are DEQX based in Australia? Trinnov did mention them while I was over doing the training and did say at the time they were the only other company attempting to do any type of phase correction.
Would there be any benefit in using the ST-2 with an existing AV receiver/processor with Dirac or are we venturing into the impractical? There’s a significant cost increase up to the Altitudes..... (that’s probably what they are named Altitudes? :) )
 
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People might generalise the findings and be misled by the title of the thread.

BTW, the Trinnov ST2 is still the actual two channel product of the company and, most probably, kept up-to-date software-wise, the Lyngdorf RP-1 isn't.

Exactly. Somebody who wants to get one of two products deserves to know that 10 y.o. Trinnov unit is still up to date but Lyngdorf is not :)
 
Your question got me thinking (again): why didn't you keep the signal all digital when utilising the ST-2? So, put the ST-2 before your DAC? This should lead to (much) better results because you'll eliminate the extra A/D and D/A.

A TDAI can used the same way for RoomPerfect only: digital in, digital out.

Hi
There's lots of different ways to configure it, I just chose an easy way to crack on with because I had a limited amount of time with it. I had already spent time setting up screen sharing, VNC, remote access for the dealer to help with set up etc.
One quesion, you've mentioned a couple of times that RP has been improved and is significantly different in the TDAIs as compared to my RP1. Would you know what the differences actually are? During the time that my RP1 was current there were no real significant software updates.
 
Hi
There's lots of different ways to configure it, I just chose an easy way to crack on with because I had a limited amount of time with it. I had already spent time setting up screen sharing, VNC, remote access for the dealer to help with set up etc.
One quesion, you've mentioned a couple of times that RP has been improved and is significantly different in the TDAIs as compared to my RP1. Would you know what the differences actually are? During the time that my RP1 was current there were no real significant software updates.

Well, a lot can be said about Lyngdorf but not that they communicate thoroughly about these things. May be one of their representatives on this forum can chime in. I know that the TDAI-3400, since it was released, had two software updates that I believe also had effect on RoomPerfect.

If I had to describe the differences between RP in the TDAI-2200 and the TDAI-3400 from a subjective point of view, I would end up with the same characteristics as you did. So, a more believable soundstage, more coherent ass well, better tonality and detail retrieval and - especially - even more control over the lower frequencies and better subwoofer integration. With the TDAI-2200 I always ended up with room nodes not completely cancelled and very different results with focus measurements at the MLP only one or two centimeters from each other.
 
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In my longish narrow room (around 5m by 2.7m), the biggest improvement came from getting matched subs for both front corners and then running roomperfect. In the smaller room (MLP 2.5m away), it sounded ok with one sub in a rear corner.

Having the subs positioned in the front corners with appropriate delay added via the Lyngdorf 3400 setup menu transformed the sound and timing, especially for voice and bass. Far better than a single sub arrangement or 1 front 1 rear sub.
 
Well, a lot can be said about Lyngdorf but not that they communicate thoroughly about these things. May be one of their representatives on this forum can chime in. I know that the TDAI-3400, since it was released, had two software updates that I believe also had effect on RoomPerfect.

If I had to describe the differences between RP in the TDAI-2200 and the TDAI-3400 from a subjective point of view, I would end up with the same characteristics as you did. So, a more believable soundstage, more coherent ass well, better tonality and detail retrieval and - especially - even more control over the lower frequencies and better subwoofer integration. With the TDAI-2200 I always ended up with room nodes not completely cancelled and very different results with focus measurements at the MLP only a one to two centimeters from each other.


Thanks. Could the TDAI 2200 not be software upgraded so that it would have the most current iteration of RP and so sound as good as the 3400? Curious why you had to buy a new piece of hardware.

Cheers
 
Thanks. Could the TDAI 2200 not be software upgraded so that it would have the most current iteration of RP and so sound as good as the 3400? Curious why you had to buy a new piece of hardware.

Cheers

The TDAI-2200 was discontinued when the TDAI-2170 came out. After that the product is not longer (actively) supported. The new TDAI's are a total redesign hardware and software wise.

RP was not the only reason for me to upgrade from 2200 > 3400. The 3400 is also better as an amplifier.
 
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The TDAI-2200 was discontinued when the TDAI-2170 came out. After that the product is not longer (actively) supported. The new TDAI's are a total redesign hardware en software wise.

RP was not the only reason for me to upgrade from 2200 > 3400. The 3400 is also better as an amplifier.

Ah, yes, my mistake. I was getting the 2200 and the 2170 mixed up. I had a TDAI on home demo last year, it would have been the 2170. So can I assume that the 2170 I had is the same (RP wise) as your 3400? I'm just trying to figure out if I've heard the latest RP version (minor software updates excluded)

Cheers
 
Would there be any benefit in using the ST-2 with an existing AV receiver/processor with Dirac or are we venturing into the impractical? There’s a significant cost increase up to the Altitudes..... (that’s probably what they are named Altitudes? :) )
You typically wouldn't use it in conjunction with DIRAC. In theory you could remove the DIRAC EQ from the input you are using and use the optimiser for the correction. But then you would be using a DIRAC product as a Hi-Fi pre-amplifier, then using an ST2 to correct it, that just wouldn't happen in the real world I dont think.

If you wanted a slice of Trinnov for multi-channel EQ alone you would use a Magnitude, which is essentially a multi channel ST2.
 
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Interesting thread about another competitor!

I found this post very informative, especially the last part about body in vs. out chair... Something to experiment with because of the large differences!
 
Interesting thread about another competitor!

I found this post very informative, especially the last part about body in vs. out chair... Something to experiment with because of the large differences!

Wow, thanks for that. That guy certainly seems to have experienced eq devices over the years. Funnily enough @dazed&confused asked whether I had considered the dspeaker in the second post on this thread. I must admit I'd never heard of this device, I always associate dspeaker with that cheap little black box I bought many years ago to eq my cinema sub. Obviously they have upped their game.
I haven't read the whole article properly. When I get a quiet hour to myself I'll immerse myself in it.
Thanks for sharing!
 
Just read the whole thing. What a shame Tom never used a Trinnov as that would have been a fantastic comparison. He didn't seem particularly impressed by the Lyngdorf TDAI 2175 though.
The X4 seems interesting, especially this feature where is determines the optimal cross over point for subs (even though personally I don't use a sub for 2ch music)

What's disappointing though is a lack any real detail of how the X4 goes about it's business. For example, does it correct phase?
 
Just read the whole thing. What a shame Tom never used a Trinnov as that would have been a fantastic comparison. He didn't seem particularly impressed by the Lyngdorf TDAI 2175 though.
The X4 seems interesting, especially this feature where is determines the optimal cross over point for subs (even though personally I don't use a sub for 2ch music)

What's disappointing though is a lack any real detail of how the X4 goes about it's business. For example, does it correct phase?
 
A lot of words but very little data

the claim that it didn't do much to his speakers because not much needed doing seems incredible based on the graph presented (even though that graph is tiny and heavily smoothed)

Re phase correction, the fact they don't say so strongly implies it doesn't do this.
 
Interesting thread about another competitor!

I found this post very informative, especially the last part about body in vs. out chair... Something to experiment with because of the large differences!


Interesting links indeed.

Recently I discussed Lyngdorf's MP-50 vs Trinnov's Altitude 16 and someone requested me to look at Illusonic's IAP 16 ("Immersive Audio Processor"). Thought I share this brand with you as another potential candidate in the RC arena. Admittedly I had never heard of them but from what I see on their website it looks promising. For those of you planning to visit the High-End 2019 show next month in Munich, Illusonic demonstrates their updated version of this device (at least that's on their website).
 
the lack of a published price is always a worrying sign :) I found a price on the HK distributor site, if that is accurate then it seems *extremely* expensive for what it offers.
 
Purite Audio (Keith Cooper) in London has the IAP in his portfolio.

I'm not sure but I think they retail for around 20k EUR (comparable to Trinnov a Altitude 32).
I think that is also whom they see as their major competitor.

A lot of money for a "computer", that is for sure.

But as long as no one is able to tell me how to achieve something similar with e.g. mini-DSP with Audiolense or Acourate software in an end-user friendly fashion I'm afraid that I have to put the cash on the table.

End-user friendliness was also what triggered my attention when reading through the review on the DSPeaker X4 and what brought me to investigate Lyngdorf's MP-50.
 

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