Trinnov Altitude 16/32 Owners Thread

grit

Member
Thanks, I'll give it a read.

My passion is more for trying to fine-tune my 2ch music and sqeeze every last inch of perfection out as best as possible. My REALITY though is that, as a family, we watch TV or movies 90-95% of the time. I rarely get to sit down and listen to 2ch music.

I know I can do better than my current system. I just don't want to give anything up at this point. But I feel like it makes more sense to angle toward what we use most, rather than investing more heavily in something i presently use at best once a month for a few hours.
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
I'm on the verge of purchasing an Altitude 16 and I'd really like some owner feedback on 2-channel music reproduction. I'm unable to demo a Trinnov unit at this time, so any input is incredibly valuable.

My system is in an untreated "great" room of our home. It doubles as my 2-ch stereo music listening area as well as our "home theater". I'm considering replacing my Bryston SP3 processor, Bryston BDA-2 DAC, and Bryston BDP-2 digital player (via Roon) with a Trinnov Altitude 16 (I also have an Oppo BDP-203, Apple 4k TV, and Kaleidescape Strato for sources).

My concern is how 2-ch stereo music will sound with the Trinnov, as it becomes the digital player, DAC, and pre-amp. Any comparrison or impressions anyone has had using the Altitude in this capacity would be invaluable!

Thanks,

- Garrett
I think it depends on your priorities, from my limited encounters playing familiar material on the Trinnov, the good was resolution, I say resolution and not detail as I find a lot of detail comments mean unnaturally bright with too much ambiance. Also a distinct lack of glare that as we know can plague high resolution digital. My only question mark was I had a nervousness that I’d respect it and not love it, only because their seemed like a lot of control and less flow than more analogue solution. It did provide really great musical insight and clearly has great separation.

Be ineterested in how you get on with any comparison
 

StephanG

Active Member
My concern is how 2-ch stereo music will sound with the Trinnov, as it becomes the digital player, DAC, and pre-amp.
It performs as good as it gets, you won't find anything better. Not multi-channel and not 2-channel. The rest is up to your calibration, if the rest of your gear stays the same.
 

grit

Member
It performs as good as it gets, you won't find anything better. Not multi-channel and not 2-channel. The rest is up to your calibration, if the rest of your gear stays the same.
Thanks for that feedback StephanG.

I guess what I'm wondering is how will the Trinnov sound BEFORE calibration. I understand that the calibration is amazing part of the Trinnov, and one that I'll use. I think I'm trying to decern if what comes out before calibration is at least as good as what I have.

I know there's no substitute for an in-home comparrison, but for now, I'll have to settle for user feedback and make my own extrapolations.
 

StephanG

Active Member
I guess what I'm wondering is how will the Trinnov sound BEFORE calibration. I understand that the calibration is amazing part of the Trinnov, and one that I'll use. I think I'm trying to decern if what comes out before calibration is at least as good as what I have.
The Trinnov is transparent, so it doesn't sound or have its own sound characteristic in a way that it's changing the sound. If you will, it represents the source without altering it. This can be good or bad. Good for excellent recordings and bad for low quality recordings, because it won't "smooth" or "sweeten" it. It will reproduce it exactly the way it is.

Whether you like this or not is a personal preference. Some people like tube amps because they sound "warm", others don't. I have not compared the Bryston setup you're using to the Trinnov, so I can't say if they sound the same or similar. However, ages ago I've used a dedicated 2-channel system with source, DACs, preamp, mono amps, Nordost cables and all the audiophile shebang. Then I switched to a Meridian 861, which worked for me for both 2-channel and multichannel. The Trinnov is not any worse when it comes to 2-channel, but much better for multichannel audio. If I had to build a dedicated 2-channel rig from scratch, my money would still be on Trinnov, knowing that it's brutally honest sounding and also giving me the option to make it sound the way I want it.
 

grit

Member
I think it depends on your priorities, from my limited encounters playing familiar material on the Trinnov, the good was resolution, I say resolution and not detail as I find a lot of detail comments mean unnaturally bright with too much ambiance. Also a distinct lack of glare that as we know can plague high resolution digital. My only question mark was I had a nervousness that I’d respect it and not love it, only because their seemed like a lot of control and less flow than more analogue solution. It did provide really great musical insight and clearly has great separation.

Be ineterested in how you get on with any comparison
Thank you IWC Dobblel. I completely understand and agree with your use of "resolution" vs "detail". I think one of the reasons people have audiophile disagreements is that we frequently don't have an agreed upon defiinition for the adjectives we use. Your clarification was ideal.

And I think I'm feeling something similar... I'm sure I'll respect it; I also want to love and enjoy it. I'll be happy to share whatever experience I end up having.
 

grit

Member
The Trinnov is not any worse when it comes to 2-channel, but much better for multichannel audio. If I had to build a dedicated 2-channel rig from scratch, my money would still be on Trinnov, knowing that it's brutally honest sounding and also giving me the option to make it sound the way I want it.
Perfect, and exactly what I'm looking for.

You mentioned cables... what have you found with the Trinnov? Do cables still impact what you hear, or does the Trinnov correction make differences in cables less relevant?
 

mb3195

Distinguished Member
You mentioned cables... what have you found with the Trinnov? Do cables still impact what you hear, or does the Trinnov correction make differences in cables less relevant?
i would absolutely amazed if people could hear the difference in a blind test, even more so when EQ is applied.
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
i would absolutely amazed if people could hear the difference in a blind test, even more so when EQ is applied.
It's very easy really to see what you might gain if anything. Cables is a challenging subject with many saying they make no difference, most will say this without actually trying different cables in their system. If you have heard something when changing cable in 2 channel then this is EXACTLY the same in multichannel I remember running my system with QED 79 strand in 2009 and when an opportunity came up form another system just try different L,R I realised its just the same.

I make up my own analogue interconnects as its so darn expensive and do a little experimentation with inexpensive cables like Sharkwire, Mugami and so on. Occasionally I will make up an 'expensive interconnect' when say I find an old unused Audio Note cable and just see on the centre channel if it makes a difference. Having tried probably hundreds of cables in different systems over the years (no exaggeration) I HAVE NEVER PAID SILLY MONEY FOR A CABLE because I have never heard anything worth silly money, there is a lot of absolute rubbish written about this on both sides of the table. I would start with cheap reasonable quality OFC which can be had for £1 a meter or less for interconnect and 1-2 for speaker cable. Then when you are bored just make up another interconnect cable using something different and see if it makes any difference at all (say on the centre channel). Cable in my experience are very system dependent but over the years the ones I like at reasonable money are Sharkwire, Mugami, some microphone cabling for interconnect. Alas branded cables are huge money spinner so uneconomic to look at IMO 99% of the time. 15 years ago I borrowed 10 or so interconnects from KJ West One and with my brother A-B'd blind tested them over a long weekend the two better cables in that set up were one from KJ and one I was given from a friend made up with old BBC microphone cable. You can guess which one stayed in the system !
 
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dBrowne

Active Member
The Trinnov is transparent, so it doesn't sound or have its own sound characteristic in a way that it's changing the sound. If you will, it represents the source without altering it. This can be good or bad. Good for excellent recordings and bad for low quality recordings, because it won't "smooth" or "sweeten" it. It will reproduce it exactly the way it is.

Whether you like this or not is a personal preference. Some people like tube amps because they sound "warm", others don't. I have not compared the Bryston setup you're using to the Trinnov, so I can't say if they sound the same or similar. However, ages ago I've used a dedicated 2-channel system with source, DACs, preamp, mono amps, Nordost cables and all the audiophile shebang. Then I switched to a Meridian 861, which worked for me for both 2-channel and multichannel. The Trinnov is not any worse when it comes to 2-channel, but much better for multichannel audio. If I had to build a dedicated 2-channel rig from scratch, my money would still be on Trinnov, knowing that it's brutally honest sounding and also giving me the option to make it sound the way I want it.
Thanks for the insight. I went the MP-60 route also coming from an 861v8, and it is also immeasurably better than the Meridian on movies, but whilst it is certainly transparent and precise, I am less convinced by its musicality in my room. It’s early days so far, and I haven’t yet had a chance to tweak my own voicings, but it is interesting that you have felt no loss in that area with the Trinnov.
 

StephanG

Active Member
You mentioned cables... what have you found with the Trinnov? Do cables still impact what you hear, or does the Trinnov correction make differences in cables less relevant?
I've changed the camp when it comes to cables. While I still think cables matter, I think the best you can do is a cable that is used for studio applications. So buy a solid cable that is matched to your system. For speaker cables that means large enough cable cross section for your speakers/amps. For interconnects, properly shielded and correct wave impedance for the used connection. And the cable shouldn't break when you bend it a little. Same is true for connectors, large area for the connection, preferably gold, even though silver would be better (but you have other problems with silver). If you have interference on cables, a twisted cable might help (Kimber, etc.).

You don't have to spend an arm or leg for cables and I'm not doing that anymore either (it's from my analogue days and many rigged demos). I make my own cables, usually with studio cables like Mogami (you can order these per meter) and connectors from Neutrik. Solder with some silver content as well, which I found to work well.

And it is also immeasurably better than the Meridian on movies, but whilst it is certainly transparent and precise, I am less convinced by its musicality in my room. It’s early days so far, and I haven’t yet had a chance to tweak my own voicings, but it is interesting that you have felt no loss in that area with the Trinnov.
Different beasts I think. The MP-60 isn't a bad processor by any means. But I consider it more to be a end-user solution for those who don't want to tweak a lot. The Trinnov is a different animal when it comes to setup and calibration. The amount of flexibility you have there is breathtaking. For example, many people consider speakers like Alcons, Ascendo, Wisdom and so on above the likes of JBL, Procella, QSC, Meyer, etc. But with the Trinnov, throw in a bunch of filters and you can make the difference disappear. This isn't an easy task and might require professional help, so this has to be added to the total cost of ownership. The MP-60 can't do this and neither can other processors to that degree. On the other hand, this allows to build a system with "cheap" speakers like QSC, Procella, JBL, Ascendo (passives) that is right on top there with the most expensive Alcons, Wisdoms or Steinways. As for the other differences, there's plenty of info in the Lyngdorf threads.
 

burtonpark

Well-known Member
I'm on the verge of purchasing an Altitude 16 and I'd really like some owner feedback on 2-channel music reproduction. I'm unable to demo a Trinnov unit at this time, so any input is incredibly valuable.

My system is in an untreated "great" room of our home. It doubles as my 2-ch stereo music listening area as well as our "home theater". I'm considering replacing my Bryston SP3 processor, Bryston BDA-2 DAC, and Bryston BDP-2 digital player (via Roon) with a Trinnov Altitude 16 (I also have an Oppo BDP-203, Apple 4k TV, and Kaleidescape Strato for sources).

My concern is how 2-ch stereo music will sound with the Trinnov, as it becomes the digital player, DAC, and pre-amp. Any comparrison or impressions anyone has had using the Altitude in this capacity would be invaluable!

Thanks,

- Garrett
I’m a Trinnov Alt16 owner and big fan (unfortunate pun intended), BUT the Alt16 has two fans and although quiet.... they are audible whereas the MP60 doesn’t have any, you will only hear the Alt16 fans in a silent listening room, in a cinema room the background noise of a Projector
Most probably sets the background audio noise floor.
 

sebna

Well-known Member
I wish it was all that simple. Cables or room EQ is in effect the same. You release purity of the recorded signal (with flawed recording equipment) to be influenced by third party, be it algorithm creator disregarding electrical and digital noise he is introducing into equation or imperfections of his model which by definition are just approximation of reality. Or cable creator who tries his best (or not) but who really is like a blind men in the analogue world of infite permutations trying to create and certainly market his cable as jack of all trades perfect for all systems without usually any scientific backing (but with usually at best random effects).

With my very limited experience with room correction I find cables (no matter how inefficient in reaching their goals) to be closer to the intent of what they try to achieve by being less destructive to signal in the process. I think it is better to manipulate signal in analogue domain in compare to digital. Although much more tiresome as changes are subtle at best, requiring the whole system to grow organically, to extract maximum out of every otherwise insignificant improvement. It can lead to very rewarding systems but the path can and usually is very frustrating at the same time.

There you go. I just summarised my last 10 years as audiophile hobbyist :). Now experimenting with basic room correction and HT setups :).
 

ianwilsn

Standard Member
My system is in an untreated "great" room of our home. It doubles as my 2-ch stereo music listening area as well as our "home theater". I'm considering replacing my Bryston SP3 processor, Bryston BDA-2 DAC, and Bryston BDP-2 digital player (via Roon) with a Trinnov Altitude 16 (I also have an Oppo BDP-203, Apple 4k TV, and Kaleidescape Strato for sources).

My concern is how 2-ch stereo music will sound with the Trinnov, as it becomes the digital player, DAC, and pre-amp. Any comparrison or impressions anyone has had using the Altitude in this capacity would be invaluable!
Hi Garrett

I did almost exactly what you're describing and haven't looked back !

I moved from a Bryston SP3 to a Trinnov A16 and the list of benefits is enormous but I would split your requirements into two halves... in terms of features then its apples and oranges, because the Trinnov offers a power and flexibility that is the best available in the market bar none. I had a Classe SSP800 before the Bryston and missed that capability, so I would suggest you will have absolutely no regrets on that front. I won't say more at this stage, but happy to expand on this if that would help.

I always believed I'd have a nice pre/pro and a separate analog pre-amp and DAC & player, since it seemed the two could never meet in the middle. The Bryston SP3 was that "in the middle" processor. It is essentially an analog preamp with a processor included. But, it won't support Atmos/DTS:X, and it's slow when switching audio formats, which happens ALL the time these days (nearly every time I press a button on my Apple TV, going from a video to the menu, etc).
I completely agree, and this brings me to the second half - sound quality. That was the main benefit I gained moving from the Classe to the Bryston, and for all the Classe's bells and whistles and really useful features, it wasn't even close, the Bryston was (is!) simply stunning as a preamp... but I went ahead because the sound quality was so much better and I was prepared to live with its other shortcomings.

As you may hear others say about Trinnov - 'I wish I'd bought one years ago' - and I am definitely in that camp and think that I have a processor that exceeds the capabilities of the ones above and many more besides (I've owned Arcam, Cary, Meridian and Theta in the past).

Finally, as James at Bryston says ' The Demo is Everything' so I nevertheless strongly recommend you try to hear one, especially with your speakers (what do you have and are they all the same? If not that's another reason to get a Trinnov...) The SP3 preamp stage is exceptional and the BDA2 is very good, so will give the Trinnov a run for its money on pure sound quality, but everything else is a whole other level.

Hope that helps -

Ian
 

Jmhenrie

Novice Member
Hi Garrett

I did almost exactly what you're describing and haven't looked back !

I moved from a Bryston SP3 to a Trinnov A16 and the list of benefits is enormous but I would split your requirements into two halves... in terms of features then its apples and oranges, because the Trinnov offers a power and flexibility that is the best available in the market bar none. I had a Classe SSP800 before the Bryston and missed that capability, so I would suggest you will have absolutely no regrets on that front. I won't say more at this stage, but happy to expand on this if that would help.



I completely agree, and this brings me to the second half - sound quality. That was the main benefit I gained moving from the Classe to the Bryston, and for all the Classe's bells and whistles and really useful features, it wasn't even close, the Bryston was (is!) simply stunning as a preamp... but I went ahead because the sound quality was so much better and I was prepared to live with its other shortcomings.

As you may hear others say about Trinnov - 'I wish I'd bought one years ago' - and I am definitely in that camp and think that I have a processor that exceeds the capabilities of the ones above and many more besides (I've owned Arcam, Cary, Meridian and Theta in the past).

Finally, as James at Bryston says ' The Demo is Everything' so I nevertheless strongly recommend you try to hear one, especially with your speakers (what do you have and are they all the same? If not that's another reason to get a Trinnov...) The SP3 preamp stage is exceptional and the BDA2 is very good, so will give the Trinnov a run for its money on pure sound quality, but everything else is a whole other level.

Hope that helps -

Ian
I am looking at Moving from the Classe SSP800 to the Trinnov Altitude 16 also. to me the Classe is a very neutral sounding preamp are you saying the Trinnov gives a different sound quality? 300 miles from nearest dealer and not sure if they have one set up.
 

grit

Member
I'm in a similar situation... too far/difficult to get to listen to competing processors and preamps. As such, I REALLY appreciate everyone's insights!

I haven't heard a Classe SSP800 in a while. And, like many audiophile companies, Classe seems to have abandoned their processor line to focus on all analog. Their new Delta series doesn't seem to have any plans to incorporate a SSP, and I understand why.

Finally, as James at Bryston says ' The Demo is Everything' so I nevertheless strongly recommend you try to hear one, especially with your speakers (what do you have and are they all the same? If not that's another reason to get a Trinnov...) The SP3 preamp stage is exceptional and the BDA2 is very good, so will give the Trinnov a run for its money on pure sound quality, but everything else is a whole other level.

Hope that helps -

Ian
Ian, when you wrote that the SP3 and BDA2 will give the Trinnov a run for it's money on pure sound quality, does that mean that they perform similarly? Or does the SP3/BDA2 beat out what the Trinnov can do?

My front three speakers are all timbre matched (Aerial Accoustics), but the surround sounds are relegated to in-ceiling B&W speakers.
 

Rob Sinden

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
FYI Meridian are now recommending the Lyngdorf MP60 Processor for use in their cinema systems. They have tested Trinnov, Storm, Arcam and Anthem and found all of them changed the sound of their speakers.

RoomPerfect is the only system they have found they corrected room errors and that preserved the performance of their speakers.
 

mb3195

Distinguished Member
FYI Meridian are now recommending the Lyngdorf MP60 Processor for use in their cinema systems. They have tested Trinnov, Storm, Arcam and Anthem and found all of them changed the sound of their speakers.

RoomPerfect is the only system they have found they corrected room errors and that preserved the performance of their speakers.
this isn’t relevant to the trinnov owners thread. You’ll also see plenty of ex-Lyngdorf owners now on this thread happy they made the move.
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
FYI Meridian are now recommending the Lyngdorf MP60 Processor for use in their cinema systems. They have tested Trinnov, Storm, Arcam and Anthem and found all of them changed the sound of their speakers.

RoomPerfect is the only system they have found they corrected room errors and that preserved the performance of their speakers.
They might or might not have added or subtracted something during EQ or processing In the same way Lyngdorf might or might not but they didn’t do anything to the speakers unless you physically changed drivers, speakers or crossovers.
 

mb3195

Distinguished Member
If you are interested in how the Trinnov compares to the Lyngdorf, I’d highly recommend a visit to Seriously Cinema where you can hear both. I think it’s the only showroom in Europe with both on dem.

I can hear how the Trinnov has changed the sound of the MK’s which is exactly what Meridian have found.
He has the Lyngdorf in a dedicated room with mk300 and the trinnov in a not so ideal room with the mk150.

I’m in no way knocking his setup, but it’s not exactly an apples for apples comparison.

No one on this thread in interested in hearing how roomperfect supposedly doesn’t change the sound of your speakers, we have around 15 other threads for that.......
 

Apollo

Active Member
FYI Meridian are now recommending the Lyngdorf MP60 Processor for use in their cinema systems. They have tested Trinnov, Storm, Arcam and Anthem and found all of them changed the sound of their speakers.

RoomPerfect is the only system they have found they corrected room errors and that preserved the performance of their speakers.
Please stop it with the sound of your speakers spiel :(

I‘ve still not read or seen anything credible to back this up or explain how it can even tell speaker from room given it is listening to both as whole with all their interactions.

I think Trinnov owners know what they are looking for and have made a choice based on that.
 
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ianwilsn

Standard Member
I am looking at Moving from the Classe SSP800 to the Trinnov Altitude 16 also. to me the Classe is a very neutral sounding preamp are you saying the Trinnov gives a different sound quality?
In my experience the Classe was indeed very neutral, but an aspect I liked was how forgiving of poor recordings it was. Combined with it's ability to digitally 'correct' anomalies and also offer many more decoding options than the competition (for a long time it had almost twice the processing power of any competitor), made it a superb choice and still great value I think.

It was only when I demo'd and then switched to the Bryston, that I found that the sound staging and 'presence' could be even better, with musicians having a greater 'solidity' in space... and all down to that exceptional pre-amplifier circuitry. I also found that, by comparison, the Classe was a little 'polite' (perhaps why poor recordings sounded better) whereas the Bryston took no prisoners and provided a greater depth and insight, but that meant warts and all and - occasionally - I found music I liked rather difficult to listen to for extended periods. It also started to fall behind the competition, and the SP4 wasn't the step-change I was looking for.

The Trinnov is transparent, so it doesn't sound or have its own sound characteristic in a way that it's changing the sound. If you will, it represents the source without altering it. This can be good or bad. Good for excellent recordings and bad for low quality recordings, because it won't "smooth" or "sweeten" it. It will reproduce it exactly the way it is.
I agree completely with Stephan's description but that can also been viewed as a fantastic foundation on which you can build in any way you desire. Because the Trinnov can do things in 3d space (literally 'move' a speaker) combined with target curves and other audio manipulation tools that far, far exceeds the Classe and Bryston one, could if you wanted, make it sound like them !

You may know this but it bears repeating, because the Altitude platform is SOFTWARE then it can be upgraded time and again and, combined with Trinnov's great relationships with Dolby and DTS, then they are able to offer new decoding formats before the competition as well as offer new features at least once a year, sometimes more. Because of this, while 'value' is a tricky concept, I would nevertheless state that the Trinnov is actually a good return on investment... if you use it every day for 10 years, it works out costing less than two take away coffees a day... :)

Finally, as others will point out, there is some competition at this price point, so I would definitely encourage you to list your requirements and see which products match your needs the closest.

Ian
 

ianwilsn

Standard Member
Ian, when you wrote that the SP3 and BDA2 will give the Trinnov a run for it's money on pure sound quality, does that mean that they perform similarly? Or does the SP3/BDA2 beat out what the Trinnov can do?
To my ears and talking about 2 channel 'direct/unprocessed' only, I would put the SP3/BDA combo slightly ahead... but... as soon as you factor in any additional channels and then apply Auro, the sound reproduction from the Trinnov is on a whole other level.

It's been a very long time since I heard a 3d reproduction of music that I liked (we're talking Meridian's Trifield back when I had a 562/565 combo, which would have been back in the 90's I think!) so it took some convincing, but after about 2 months of back-and-forth I was a Convert and now very rarely listen to 'plain' stereo anymore...

...and I guess this is part of the difficulty in focusing on one specific criterium, because the Altitude platform does *so much* and *so well*, that its kinda a game-changer and you may find your behaviour alters as a consequence.

My front three speakers are all timbre matched (Aerial Accoustics), but the surround sounds are relegated to in-ceiling B&W speakers.
Nice ! :)

So by way of another example of the Trinnov's capabilities, it will listen and calculate what your speakers do well and not so well... and it's then your decision whether to 'correct' them, or to keep their idiosyncrasies, or even to apply those same characteristics to the other speakers you have, even across manufacturers... and the great thing is that there's no 'right' or 'wrong', its down to your preference and that's fundamentally what I like most about the platform, it gives you the power...

...though of course, with great power comes great responsibility :D

Ian
 

indus

Distinguished Member
Please stop it with the sound of your speakers spiel :(

I‘ve still not read or seen anything credible to back this up or explain how it can an even tell speaker from room given it is listening to both as whole with all their interactions.

I think Trinnov owners know what they are looking for and have made a choice based on that.

I see nothing has changed around here. I've avoided this forum for about 6 months for exactly this reason; fed up by reading the same unfounded and unsubstantiated claims.
My first visit back and it's exactly the same...

Thanks for calling it out.
 

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