Trinnov Altitude 16/32 Owners Thread

Ringnut

Distinguished Member
It would be nice to copy and paste room and speaker layout without starting from scratch over and over or overwriting an existing Preset.
You shouldn't need to do that unless something has changed. Once you have gone through the Wizard process just save that setting as 'Default' or similar in a Preset, then you can just return to that any time you want to start from scratch. Obviously if you change the room in some way or add/delete/move speakers, you will need to start from scratch again, but that's the same with any processor.
 

Manmc

Active Member
Interesting , when I start a new configuration neither the speaker array nor the assigned channel outputs are retained at the previous 7.1.6 setting of other presets . Its also hard to set levels properly when the MIC consistently reports one or other speaker is 'not located '. I mean , they are where they are .

~M~
 

mb3195

Distinguished Member
Interesting , when I start a new configuration neither the speaker array nor the assigned channel outputs are retained at the previous 7.1.6 setting of other presets . Its also hard to set levels properly when the MIC consistently reports one or other speaker is 'not located '. I mean , they are where they are .

~M~
It really sounds like you need someone who can do the calibration for you, whether remotely or on-site. Setting the speakers isn’t difficult, but you need to make sure they are named and allocated correctly, as if they’re not, the trinnov won’t know.

The interface takes a while to get your head around, but once you do, it’s relatively straightforward.

I really would suggest you learn and understand REW though, as without it, you’re guessing on some of the most important setup points, such as time alignment and crossovers.

Below are a list of questions that need to be answered to give you a chance of setting up the trinnov properly.

What crossovers are you using? Is this scientific, recommended or just guess work? What target curve are you aiming for? What do you like the sound of? What works in your room? Is you sub located in the best place? What is your sub response? Do you use a house curve on your subs? Are you speakers positioned correctly? Is your seating position ideal? Have you any room treatments?

All of the above questions are essential to know the answers to each of them. You are dealing with possibly the most sophisticated and best sounding processor on the market, but if your not giving it the right tools it will be like mowing a lawn with a pair of scissors.
 

Manmc

Active Member
" What crossovers are you using? Is this scientific, recommended or just guess work? What target curve are you aiming for? What do you like the sound of? What works in your room? Is you sub located in the best place? What is your sub response? Do you use a house curve on your subs? Are you speakers positioned correctly? Is your seating position ideal? Have you any room treatments? "

Room treatments are planned for New Year .Selecting crossovers when there are 13 speakers and 1 sub seems quite tricky eg. each speakers' data sheet refers to digital crossovers at 200hz and 2.6khz (7200 speakers) : frequency response 30hz to 20khz etc but my basics are not good enough yet to get into all that .

" the most sophisticated and best sounding processor on the market, but if your not giving it the right tools it will be like mowing a lawn with a pair of scissors."

Its because I agree with your valuation that I really want to get some decent sound to begin with , then I will be patient till I get a proper calibration.

Thanks for your advice , I won't kill the whole thread (yet ;) ) I will be back on the job at the weekend though

~M~
 

Ringnut

Distinguished Member
Its also hard to set levels properly when the MIC consistently reports one or other speaker is 'not located '. I mean , they are where they are .
IME a speaker being 'not located' is usually due to a close reflection of some sort. Look for possible reflections and deal with those first.
 
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yecora

Active Member
"a speaker being 'not located' is usually due to a close reflection of some sort"

Most likely this message appears if speaker posinioned not properly, i.e. if you use a horn loaded speaker and mic is outside of horn dispersion area. It might also appears if you are using line array speaker or planars or so on. Another one error you may get is "Crest factor too low" - this is usually about too much background noise in the room or a lot of strong reflections.

Try to move mic a bit, it may help. There is also some adjustmens in the interface available to try, but it better to be done by certified Trinnov calibrator.
 

Manmc

Active Member
Thanks to all for tips ! Great session with Uncle Antoine today ( Trinnov really should get award for Customer Service as they put many others to shame ) got me going again . These presets will be saved to usb I swear ! Still no luck with with 'not located ' speaker though even after moving mic . Its no nearer side walls than any of the other 5 in-ceilings and it cannot be moved . On another day perhaps some readings from alternative positions could be tried . None of this is to the detriment of the overall sound quality achieved though I have to say , much better balanced than before . Gosh , 'Meddle' 5.1 upped to Auro-3D is really , dare I say it , trippy :)
Unfortunately , clock-changing pops and clicks still present but are being actively investigated . The real test will be post-Covid to get someone in to test more . So , still no multi-format Roon playlists but very happy with playback sound quality otherwise .

Cheers

~M~
 

StephanG

Active Member
Room treatments are planned for New Year .Selecting crossovers when there are 13 speakers and 1 sub seems quite tricky eg. each speakers' data sheet refers to digital crossovers at 200hz and 2.6khz (7200 speakers) : frequency response 30hz to 20khz etc but my basics are not good enough yet to get into all that .
That's not something you'd want to adjust and you can't do it on the Trinnov either. It's the crossovers of the DSP in the speaker. Adjust for the full frequency response.

Still no luck with with 'not located ' speaker though even after moving mic .
Have you accidentally adjusted the Balance or Axis settings on the speaker? Might be best to double-check settings. If that doesn't help, re-type speakers and reset the 271.
Are you using a mix of DSP and active/passive speakers? What are you using for volume control (Trinnov or speakers?). Speakers set a reference level of 87 for the former? Have you compensated the 24ms delay (or 8ms if EBA is switched off) that each DSP adds?
 

Manmc

Active Member
Crossovers or PEQs I will leave to a calibrator.

Have you accidentally adjusted the Balance or Axis settings on the speaker? Might be best to double-check settings. If that doesn't help, re-type speakers and reset the 271.
Are you using a mix of DSP and active/passive speakers? What are you using for volume control (Trinnov or speakers?). Speakers set a reference level of 87 for the former? Have you compensated the 24ms delay (or 8ms if EBA is switched off) that each DSP adds?”

All bed level speakers were retyped . Heights have no control beyond selecting Left or Right speaker . I was using volume control from Trinnov , 271 at reference level 87 but as of today I’ve dropped 271 to 72 in an attempt to reduce impact of thumps through speakers.

EBA is turned off as although all speakers are dsps the 5000 sides do not have EBA . I cannot find any details anywhere on how to compensate correctly as you suggest for turning it off .

M
PS Thumps were happening from day one when system was only 7.1 so in-ceilings are not involved IMO
 

Seriously Ltd

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Our Altitude16 was re calibrated and sounding awesome in our media room following some changes.
 

StephanG

Active Member
EBA is turned off as although all speakers are dsps the 5000 sides do not have EBA . I cannot find any details anywhere on how to compensate correctly as you suggest for turning it off .
My bad, sorry. It shouldn't matter. The delay caused by the DSP should show up in the configuration details of the Trinnov. Proper way to deal with delay is to add distance to the DSP speakers in a mixed setup. Meridian used to have a Q&A on their website for the 271, but I can't find it right now. Not sure if they have removed it. Here's the part for mixed speakers and delay.

22. MY SYSTEM COMPRISES OF A MIXTURE OF MERIDIAN DSP LOUDSPEAKERS AND ANALOGUE LOUDSPEAKERS. DOES THIS HAVE ANY BEARING ON THE SET-UP OF THE AVR?

Yes. Audio is delayed by a small but appreciable amount when it passes through a Meridian DSP loudspeaker. This delay is known as “latency” and it does not exist on analogue amps and speakers. By default, all Meridian DSP speakers in the current range have a latency of 24 milliseconds. This delay must be taken into consideration when entering the relative distances of the various speakers during the set-up process for the AVR. The latency of 24 milliseconds equates to a distance of 24 feet (approximately 7.3 metres).

Therefore the distances used for the DSP loudspeakers need to be adjusted by 24 feet relative to the analogue speakers in the system. This can be done by adding 24 feet (7.3m) to the measured distances of the DSP loudspeakers.

It should be noted that, because the set-up of the AVR relies on relative distances rather than absolute measurements, the same effect can be achieved by subtracting 24 feet (7.3m) from the measured distances of the analogue speakers or by adding and subtracting to provide a combination which equates to a differential of 24 feet (7.3m).

If the differential of 24ms exceeds the range of adjustability available on the AVR, then one work-around is to disable “EBA” on the Meridian DSP loudspeakers. With EBA switched off, the latency of the Meridian speakers is reduced to 8 milliseconds. This equates to 8 feet (2.4 metres) so this should be used as the offset between the measured distances and the values entered on the AVR.
In any case, the center should be detected. Does it otherwise work as expected? Are you doing single or multi-point calibrations?
 

Manmc

Active Member
Antoine did make a few attempts at calculations with minor mic adjustments but although each speaker is fine with pink noise and plays fine in normal use I think he had to tweak something to make calculations for the optimiser . I read Meridian's Q+A ( it has more info than the User Guide in some ways ) . They have no customer service , as such , choosing to delegate to their dealers in an attempt to fob off customers with problems so I have had to put up with this problem for a whole year
despite Trinnov's very best efforts to help .

At least with the current calibration , playback audio quality is much improved but the constant muting on/off during disc playback and , particularly , during multi-format music playback is a major nuisance so nobody else is willing to use the system which was not intention when purchasing .

~M~
 

StephanG

Active Member
They have no customer service , as such , choosing to delegate to their dealers in an attempt to fob off customers with problems so I have had to put up with this problem for a whole year
despite Trinnov's very best efforts to help .
You've got a PM.
 

Seriously Ltd

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
The NAD should be absolutely fine.
We’ve paired the Trinnov with Lyngdorf, Yamaha, dARTS and Emotiva amps all with excellent results.
 

dfdd

Well-known Member
yes owned on bought off forums here-lovely bit of kit. sold to free up some funds after buying a lyngdorf. replaced with an equally capable nord multichannel, but the Nad build was superlative....should have kept it really
 

burtonpark

Well-known Member
yes owned on bought off forums here-lovely bit of kit. sold to free up some funds after buying a lyngdorf. replaced with an equally capable nord multichannel, but the Nad build was superlative....should have kept it really
yep, I remember you just beat me to buying the lyngdorf, and my finger was twitching when you listed your M27 on the forums. Have you bought a trinnov yet?
 

mb3195

Distinguished Member
gain is tad high at 29db
not really sure how much of a problem this really is. My Emotivas were fine, it just meant the volume knob was that bit lower for the equivalent volume level.
 

dfdd

Well-known Member
yep, I remember you just beat me to buying the lyngdorf, and my finger was twitching when you listed your M27 on the forums. Have you bought a trinnov yet?
Will try one at some point , however being time poor love the easy set up of the lyngdorf and best sound I have heard, especially stereo.
more complex set up of trinnov puts me off at the moment, but it looks extremely capable with some good pedigree user reports like yours! enjoy the nad
 

burtonpark

Well-known Member
not really sure how much of a problem this really is. My Emotivas were fine, it just meant the volume knob was that bit lower for the equivalent volume level.
would have loved the amplitude, but NAD is half the price, and hope performance will be 95% same.

To me it seems incorrect that the gain on the NAD M27 is set @ same 29db for both the RCA and the XLR inputs, when XLR should surely be set 6db llower gain than RCA because the XLR input voltage is typical 2x rca volts (Ie +6db). Eg My Yamaha MX-A5200 is 29db on rca and 23db on XLR, which is more sensible.

Anyway, the Alt16 XLR can output even more volts than most consumer AVR, so I suppose Trinnov chose 19db gain on the amplitude to keep the overall system noise floor low! (Lyngdorf also do similar)
further reading on why attenuators can help restore the balance below.
 

iamimpossible

Active Member
It would be a noticeable upgrade i would think. To be honest i don't rate the TDAI lyngdorf amps at all.

I did a back to back with TDAI 3400, a Macinttosh mc312 and the anthem STR.
the lyngdorf was a blunt instrument compared to them, lacking lots of detail.
 

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