Tricky Situation - Advice and Opinions Sought

Tiger Rag

Active Member
If it makes you feel better you can report it, but as others have said I would probably move on.

Realistically the chances of anything happening even if you did report it are probably very slim (but then if we said that about everything nothing would get reported)

If you report it, it will get investigated.

I was reported in 2015 for "not being that disabled ". That was all that was said. I had to go into the job centre and checks were done.
 

tiacat

Member
I’m very sorry I’ve not responded to you. I might not have read your post, I might have ignored it. I might spend a small amount of time on AVF nowadays. That’s the Beauty of forums. Nobody owes anyone anything. This could be my last post for a month and I wouldn’t think twice about it.
Well then dont complain that 'people' are not talking about what you are talking about when they are and you havent noticed.
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
Benefit fraud comes in all shapes and sizes. As has been "discussed" here, a small proportion comes from people just playing the system, but there are plenty of other ways as well.

Example: One of those "Mega Churches" with thousands of members runs an community outreach project, which employs 20-30 young people as dancers and performers. They are all on a 2 day per week full time contract and are then told to claim benefits to top up their money so that they can actually work another 3 days on a "Volunteer" contract. In other words, they are coached on how to (legitimately) claim every benefit available so that the church can pay them less. This has been going on for more than 20 years to my knowledge and the church is a well respected organisation which also gets involved in lobbying parliament on social issues etc.

We all know work shy liggers who we see swanning off on holiday every 10 minutes, making money on the side at car boot sales and through FB marketplace, not paying tax and then persuading the assessors that they are too ill to work. They are a stain on the system, but it's a much smaller problem then many would like to portray. Ask yourself if you would want to work alongside someone like this? I know I wouldn't and would rather put up with paying what probably equates to £5 per month to keep them out of my way!
 

Wahreo

Distinguished Member
I disagree. I believe the amount of people sponging off the government is huge. If people can get something for nothing then they will take it. My recent experience of this was the furlough system and tradesmen going to work as normal but instead of being paid digitally, they were paid Cash.

FWIW, I don’t have an issue with people genuinely coming in to hard times, people with disabilities and low paid workers being subsidised.

To be fair, those people on this thread who have a disability and claiming benefits will naturally have a biased perspective on this based on their situation. Even more so if they have been investigated.
 

leamspaceman

Distinguished Member
I've found it quite ironic that many people who aren't in favour of the welfare state, or would like it to be even more draconian, were quite happy to accept their furlough income.

The money given out during furlough was and is welfare. The government decided that it wasn't safe for you to go to work, so they provided you with your income.

Likewise, the government has benefit systems in place to support those who can't work or have limited capability to work and whose health might suffer if they did work.

I was chatting with someone the other day who is quite the Nazi when it comes to the sick and disabled and the 'handouts' they receive. He was banging on about it again and using words like 'scroungers', 'spongers', 'low-lifes' etc etc. The usual language used by the uneducated. So I mentioned about the money he received from furlough. "But I couldn't go to work as it would have put me at risk" he said, "It wasn't my choice, the government made the decision." "Exactly, so the same as someone who is sick or disabled or has mental health issues" I replied. "Their health isn't their choice either and the government assesses their fitness for work."

He didn't like what I had said and walked off in a bit of a strop... like most people who spout off about benefit cheats without having an iota of insight.

I now have a 'real life' ignore list. That guy added himself to it.
 
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Tiger Rag

Active Member
As far has I'm aware it's for pensioners on a certain benefit and for other vulnerable people on a low income

No. Its only pensioners who receive it.

Those of us under pension age and on certain benefits may get a little bit of money if the weather is under 0c for 7 consecutive days, between November and March.
 

reiteration

Member
I disagree. I believe the amount of people sponging off the government is huge. If people can get something for nothing then they will take it. My recent experience of this was the furlough system and tradesmen going to work as normal but instead of being paid digitally, they were paid Cash.

FWIW, I don’t have an issue with people genuinely coming in to hard times, people with disabilities and low paid workers being subsidised.

To be fair, those people on this thread who have a disability and claiming benefits will naturally have a biased perspective on this based on their situation. Even more so if they have been investigated.

human nature I guess... there are people who know the 'system' and what benefits to claim for etc and it's like a career for them... but I reckon most aren't that well off unless they hide it well...

but talking of scammers - was in the local rag yesterday that 60 employees at Nissan are to be disciplined as one person was told to self isolate - then that same text message got sent out to upto 59 of his colleagues :D

mirror link here -
 
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leamspaceman

Distinguished Member
There's a cold weather payment and a warm home discount.

The CWP is made if the temp is below a certain threshold for a number of consecutive days.

The WHD is something you apply for through your energy supplier. Not all suppliers take part in the scheme. You get £140 credited towards your energy bill each year if you qualify. You can also get free appliances if your old one meets a certain criteria... age, energy rating.
 
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LakieLady

Well-known Member
Where are the statistics to prove that the majority of people who receive benefits deserve them?

Welfare rights officer and benefit trainer here, 14 years's experience dealing with approx 15 clients a week for 10 of those years, around 5 pw now (new job is part-time).

My outcome monitoring shows that over 70% of the clients I deal with aren't getting the benefits they're entitled to, either because they aren't aware they're entitled to them and haven't claimed or because of errors in their claims. In some cases, this has led to five-figure arrears payments.

In all that time, the number of clients who are getting benefits they aren't entitled to has been tiny. In approx 1/3 of those cases, that has been because of errors on the part of the DWP. My success rate at appeal tribunals is 100%, which to me indicates that an awful lot of errors are made by DWP and lots of clients are disadvantaged by incorrect decisions.

"Deserve" is a moral judgment, and I don't make moral judgments about clients' entitlement, only legal ones. Entitlement is set out in law and is not governed by value judgments about claimants' worthiness.
 

leamspaceman

Distinguished Member
Welfare rights officer and benefit trainer here, 14 years's experience dealing with approx 15 clients a week for 10 of those years, around 5 pw now (new job is part-time).

My outcome monitoring shows that over 70% of the clients I deal with aren't getting the benefits they're entitled to, either because they aren't aware they're entitled to them and haven't claimed or because of errors in their claims. In some cases, this has led to five-figure arrears payments.

In all that time, the number of clients who are getting benefits they aren't entitled to has been tiny. In approx 1/3 of those cases, that has been because of errors on the part of the DWP. My success rate at appeal tribunals is 100%, which to me indicates that an awful lot of errors are made by DWP and lots of clients are disadvantaged by incorrect decisions.

"Deserve" is a moral judgment, and I don't make moral judgments about clients' entitlement, only legal ones. Entitlement is set out in law and is not governed by value judgments about claimants' worthiness.
You'll be very unpopular on here* by posting actual facts and having years of experience regarding the matter at hand.

You might have to make some stuff up, or make some spurious claims in order to revive any popularity you might have had.

* not with me
 

Doug the D

Distinguished Member
What you onabout, Child Benefit is means tested. Some people have to pay it back

I think you're referring to Child Tax Credits. This is means tested. I used to receive it many years ago, then once my income went above a certain amount (I forget what it was), it stopped.

Child Benefit on the other hand I do receive. It's around £85 for my single child, but I think if you have more than one, the amount steps down for each child - again, I only have the one child, so imbw about that.

My personal view is this; I brought my child into the world (well okay, my wife might have done the hard work :)), she is and should be my financial responsibility to raise. I receive the payment and it goes into a bank account for my daughter's future. I am now in a financially better situation than I was when she was born and don't actually need the money, but I understand that there are millions of families that do need it.

If Child Tax Credits can be means-tested (which despite people thinking is hard to do, I'm fairly certain that it's done on your tax code/ earnings, although again, imbw) then why can't Child Benefit? Or better yet, get rid of one and roll them both into the same thing.

I'm of the belief that our entire benefits system is a safety net for those that need it, for whatever reason. There's not much point in believing otherwise imo. After all, we never know when we might come to rely on it ourselves.

As alcoholics say about the stereotypical drunk tramp on the park bench; 'We're all only ever one bad decision away from becoming that tramp' - it's very true, people end up in situations they'd never want to be in completely unexpectedly. Life changes can and quite often do happen very quickly.

As for all these tales of benefit 'cheats', 'scroungers' and the like; I see people every day that seem pretty work shy and lazy - but that's just me being a judgy prick when I'm having a bad day.
I have absolutely no idea of what's going on behind the doors of a complete stranger's house, or what they live like day-to-day.
I also feel that the way some of us look at others and compare them to ourselves is one of the negative side effects of Facebook and similar.

It's no good me looking at my neighbour who's got 2 working arms and 2 working legs and stating that he's a lazy layabout - how do I know he's not got some terrible bone wasting disease? The truth is, I don't.
 

Iancity

Active Member
Housing benefit? Possibly, though individual claimants wouldn't gain from this, just wealthy property owners.
? Not sure where you are coming from here...the claimant who forges there tenancy agreement to show £450 a month instead of £400..individual gains...the claimant who does not declare they are working...the individual gains ....the claimant who does not report other benefits...the individual gains...the claimant who does not report a partner living with them...the individual gains...the claimant who does not report their true capital...the individual gains... and so on and so on...
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
? Not sure where you are coming from here...the claimant who forges there tenancy agreement to show £450 a month instead of £400..individual gains...the claimant who does not declare they are working...the individual gains ....the claimant who does not report other benefits...the individual gains...the claimant who does not report a partner living with them...the individual gains...the claimant who does not report their true capital...the individual gains... and so on and so on...
I'll reply to this fully another time (or maybe @LakieLady can do so for me?).

Basically, what you're describing is your perception of the benefits system versus the reality, and they are miles apart.

It is very difficult to defraud the BA now as they require a near-mountain of evidence to support any claim, and they constantly check on your eligibility, they no longer just rely on your word and good faith anymore.

Now if only such vigilance would apply when it comes to Parliamentary lobbying or government PPE contracts, eh?
 

Iancity

Active Member
Sorry Derek, how do you think that my perception? Its not my perception, that is the reality. You stated the individual does not gain in housing benefit fraud when I have clearly shown that they do in certain (most) circumstances - or have I got that wrong?
Lakielady said her quota of people she has seen where they were not entitled to the money they were getting was very low, but of course it would be, who in there right mind fiddling the system would go and see a welfare benefit officer to complain they were not getting enough benefit!

Although, as you rightly state, it is very difficult now (well, I would argue 'more' difficult rather that 'very' difficult), the money lost to fraud in the benefit system is still huge.
 

Wahreo

Distinguished Member
Welfare rights officer and benefit trainer here

But It’s your job to ‘check clients are claiming all the benefits they are entitled to’

It’s a bit like someone arguing with a Plumber that water leaks in the home are quite rare.
 

spudtator

Well-known Member
Universal Credit are currently (have been since late last year) going back to claimants who claimed since the start of the COVID outbreak and checking everything, ID, children and housing are genuine.
The number of fraudulent claims are tiny compared to what they thought they were going to find. Very low single figures %.
Most of the mistakes are people claiming for older children who they thought they were entitled to support for, but weren't. These types of situations are classed by DWP as fraud, even if they are genuine mistakes and the claimants have to pay the money back.
Incidentally, approx 1.3M new claims were made to UC since the initial COVID outbreak.
 

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