Transferring from recorder to PC

Hi,

The problem of DVD-RAM discs being rendered unreadable is still being reported on the CD Freaks forum. Read this:-
http://forum.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=122274

It looks as though the LG Guru over there 'Kenshin' is not yet aware of the common nature of the problem or how to resolve it either but I have posted over there to see if he or anyone else can come up with anything.

Added to this post at 1649 hrs 15th Jan - German guy named Frank who has some experience of the PanasonicDVDR/LG burner problem using different combinations of equipment, has posted on the CD Freaks site (above link) that he has never experienced the fault when using 2x DVD-RAM media. Makes interesting reading.

The obvious question to ask is if any member over here on AV Forums has ever had a problem with 2x DVD-RAM media under the circumstances relevant to this thread only?

Could 2x media be an answer??

Thanks,
Steve
 
Hi Steve,

Interesting post.

The Memorex discs I've used don't state the speed on the box, but putting the Part Number through Google produces a specification chart which lists them as x2 max. I was using the x3 Panasonic DVDs when I had all the problems.

Maybe that's why they work with my setup. I might just try re-installing InCD.............then again, Match of the Day seems more appealing!

Gavin
 
After much searching I have managed to find some 2x Panasonic DVD-RAM discs gathering dust in a local electronics shop. I have bought a pack of 5 and will try them out at the beginning of the week (no time before then).

I notice these discs do not support CPRM, which is potentially another culprit.

Steve
 
Just to assist you guys with troubleshooting I am using Panasonic 3x (and old 2x) DVD-RAM with the LG4120 without problems.
 
Hi,

The CPRM potential 'theory' is worthy of some investigation and I will do a bit of research on it. It's interesting I think because it is a copy protection system on the disc that involves an element of being triggered somehow and that is what is happening the moment a disc is merely read by the writer and is then 'written' to somehow.

The Panasonic recorders are CPRM equipped and are then reporting a 'write protect' issue.

As the 'problem' seems to occur with random machinery but with whole batches of discs i.e. to certain individuals rather than all individuals randomly, an individual burner or some feature of the host PC may be the trigger for the CPRM coding on the disc.

The fact that older 2x speed discs may not experience this problem and may not have CPRM coding on them is potentially significant and worthy of further consideration and research.

I am interested to know if anyone with non-CPRM discs has experienced the 'problem'.

Steve
 
Rasczak said:
Just to assist you guys with troubleshooting I am using Panasonic 3x (and old 2x) DVD-RAM with the LG4120 without problems.

Which Panasonic recorder(s) are you using?

Steve
 
My LG drive seems to have no problems with RAM discs, or rendering them unuseable.
 
Reading all the posts on all the forums it appears that those with the problem have an E50, E65 or E85. Those not experiencing the problem have an E55 or E95 (this agrees with what delta123 on the cdfreaks forums says).

Absolutely no idea what to make of this, or how it helps! :laugh:

Steve
 
Hi again,

It might be worth asking a few questions of everybody at this juncture:-

1. Stevedangerous has done some research and has suggested that this problem only seems to manifest itself on Panasonic E50, E65 and E85 DVD recorders. Does anybody know different?

2. I have read through all posts on here and CD Freaks forum and can only find instances of this happening with Panasonic DVD-RAM 3x discs. Does anybody know different?

3. Those LG burner/Panasonic DVDR who have suffered the problem with Panasonic DVD-RAM 3x discs seem to have achieved success by then going on to use other (sometimes cheaper) media. Is this a general experience?

I have posted the same questions on CD Freaks.

Thanks,
Steve
 
It occurs to me that there are four factors influencing the manifestation of this problem:

1. The media
2. The Windows OS version
3. The LG drive type
4. The Panasonic recorder type

Steve999's mini-poll addresses points 1 and 4. I have couple of observations regarding points 2 and 3.

Firstly, I gather that Windows support for CPRM was only fully implemented with DirectX 9.0b, and that a hotfix is required for this to work properly with Windows 2000. This might explain why the problem only seems to affect XP users.

Secondly, the problem only seems to occur with LG drives from the 4120 onwards. The 4120 drive was the first one NOT to ship (I believe) with the Panasonic DVD-RAM drivers. The significance of this is that compatibility tests with Panasonic drives/media/software may not have been fully undertaken from this point on. Bugs could have crept in, or at the very least differences in the interpretation of the DVD-RAM standards could have arisen.

One aspect of this problem that I am particularly interested in is the fact the once a disc has been corrupted in this way although the disc is rendered virtually unusable in the recorder that wrote the disc in the first place, it can be successfully re-formatted and written to in a another machine of the same type (I have experienced this and so has "hammy" here http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1349990&postcount=13 ). This would suggest that a recorder retains a memory (perhaps in static RAM) of discs it has recently written to. This might be purely subjective but I have often thought that a DVD-RAM disc loads a lot quicker a second time in my E85. Similarly, if a RAM disc has not been used for a while it seems to take longer to load again - perhaps its putative slot in memory has been reused.

How about this for a wild speculative theory?! When a CPRM disc is inserted in a machine running XP, Windows tells the drive to do "something". A bug in recent LG firmwares causes the drive to mark the disc as read-only on receipt of this instruction. Either by design or as a result of another firmware bug, some Panasonic recorders are unable to ignore this flag when they recognise the disc as having been one that they have written to previously.

Marks out of ten for craziness, please! :)

Steve
 
Hi SteveDangerous,

I don't think you are crazy. I tend to support just about everything you have said.

The exact cause of the problem may well not be firmly proved as we can not hope to be totally scientific about this but I am hoping that some anecdotal evidence may well enable a workaround i.e. avoid certain media with certain hardware.

The research so far seems to be be pointing at the avoidance of a certain type of media unless somebody comes up with a goal in injury time.

Have you tried those non-CPRM 2xspeed discs yet? I have ordered some Memorex 2xspeed as others have reported no problems with them.

Steve
 
I have E85 & 4120B
I have the same problem in W2K and XP with Panasonic DVD-RAM driver.
Media: Panasonic 3x.

My 'unusable' DVD-RAMs were reformatted by Panasonic support using a notebook with 'Panasonic OEM' DVD drive, XP, Panasonic RAM driver.

They show me an interesting thing: if we format a RAM with non Panasonic driver, take it into E85 (LP mode), it displays the available time as 4:00. If we re-format the RAM with Panasonic driver, the available time becomes 4:14. There is some difference in the file structure. But the 4:00 RAM is usable in E85, if it was not formatted with LG, but Panasonic DVD drive.
 
Hi there.

My "system" details:

Unworkable system;
Panasonic E85
Windows XP SP2
Discs - Panasonic x3 CPRM
LG 4160
Ram driver - InCD, Panasonic Ram driver using already failed Panasonic discs

Working system;
Panasonic E85
Windows XP SP2
Discs - Memorex x2
LG 4160
Ram driver - Panasonic Ram driver

Regards
Gavin
 
Steve999 said:
Hi SteveDangerous,

Have you tried those non-CPRM 2xspeed discs yet? I have ordered some Memorex 2xspeed as others have reported no problems with them.

Steve

:D Success! :D

The problem did not manifest itself using the Panasonic 2x non-CPRM discs!

I copied a full 4 gigs worth onto my PC's hard disc using the LG4120 drive, performed a binary comparison on the files to check for transfer errors and then successfully re-formatted the disc on my E85. :)

For the record, I am using the native Windows XP DVD-RAM drivers. I have nothing else installed.

@Steve999
Where are you sourcing your Memorex discs from?

Steve
 
Steve,

Can you write to your DVD-Ram discs?

I was under the impression Windows XP supports reading/writing to Fat32 but only reading of UDF formatted DVD Ram discs i.e. no native support for writing in UDF. This means you do need to install a third party driver if you want to write to the discs.

Gavin
 
GYoung said:
Steve,

Can you write to your DVD-Ram discs?

I was under the impression Windows XP supports reading/writing to Fat32 but only reading of UDF formatted DVD Ram discs i.e. no native support for writing in UDF. This means you do need to install a third party driver if you want to write to the discs.

Gavin

I can't write to the discs on my PC, but then I don't want to. I don't really use discs for backing up so I have no need.

I'm just glad that I can use my internal LG drive now instead of having to use my Samsung DVD-ROM drive in an external casing. This solution has always been a bit flakey.

Steve
 
Steve,

Memorex 5 pack DVD-RAM from here http://***********/4aruz (wrong picture but right product). I'll let you know how they go but I'm fairly confident from what we've learned so far that they'll be okay. ;)

I also have a couple of cartridge based double sided datasafe RAM's which I guess aren't CPRM as they will no doubt be Ritek made. I haven't had the guts to risk one of them yet though as they are very useful for daily use in the recorder.

Steve
 
Kabelnet said:
Steve,
what is the type (code) of the Panasonic disc you used without problem?

Hi,

The part no. appears to be DDOMAF120E. However, I fear that these discs are no longer made. I got mine from a shop that had some old stock hidden away.

Steve
 
Hi Steve,

Wow, that must be old - nothing on Google!.

I'm pleased that you've found something that works but on a logical level, incredulous to think that the issue is one of mere speed as intimated by our German friend on CD Freaks.

Although the content of this and similar threads are somewhat unscientific, it is very noticeable that the problems when they have occurred have done so by users of Panasonic 3xspeed media which is CPRM coded. Older media (2xspeed) is unlikely to be so coded and coincidentally or otherwise, has not had any write protection issues.

I will be looking for non-CPRM media on which to transfer data (JPEG's) from my 4160B via DVD-RAM to my E65 in future and hope that my hunch pays off. Hopefully though, the 5 pack of Memorex will provide for my requirements in this direction for a few years to come. I'll let you know if they are okay.

Good luck, :thumbsup:

Steve
 
SteveDangerous said:
Reading all the posts on all the forums it appears that those with the problem have an E50, E65 or E85. Those not experiencing the problem have an E55 or E95 (this agrees with what delta123 on the cdfreaks forums says).
Steve

Quite disturbing reading all of these problems with compatibility issues surrounding the DVD-RAM format in these Pannys... My situation is as follows:

Recently bought a Panasonic E55 (Very happy with it so far!)
Have ordered a bunch of Verbatim Type 4 (Double sided, cartridged) disks, and I'm currently using a TDK Type 4 disc.

I already own a Pioneer DVD-Writer, but it doesn't do DVD-RAM, so I'm about to buy one of the LG Writers (I'm not aware of any alternatives)

I have access to the following models, which one is going to be compatible? (I've listed them in order of my preference, so hopefully the one at the top will serve my purpose.

4120B
4160B
5120D (External)
5160D (External)

I really only need to read the RAM discs, as all I want to do is be able to transfer the odd recorded program to my PC for editing and then I'd write to a DVD-R or DVD+R to keep.

Would appreciate people's comments...

From the quote above, is it true that the E55 does not exhibit any of these compatibility issues and I can buy any of the drives in my shopping list?
 

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