Transducer setup issues, thoughts wanted.

Member 639844

Former Advertiser
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
14,796
Reaction score
1,172
Points
2,051
Age
43
Location
Lancashire
I have my bass shaker powered from a pro amp that also powers my sub. It doesnt do a bad job, although I need to get a crossover sorted out for it yet. Ive found that the shaker works well when set right, but if I adjust the system volume, then the shakers response is changed. I dont want this to happen, and I'm thinking a fixed line output is going to be better, so the shakers response is the same no matter what volume I play the AV system at. I'm thinking that maybe using the sub pre-out on the Onkyo will work better, which I will try soon (shaker is offline as Ive re-located the noisy pro amp to another room, and need to purchase some addition speaker wire to reconnect it up again).

Has anyone else had this issue, and/or resolved it. I dont have the amp that is supplied for the shaker, so I'm unfamiliar with how they would normally work, but I'm finding it a little annoying that if I turn the system right up, or have it on quite low, the shaker goes from being sweet, to either doing nothing, or bottoming out.
 
Hi Dan,
Are you running any EQ before the pro amp? If you are maybe its affecting the Quake response. If you run from the sub preout on the Onkyo via Y split then bypass the pro amp what will power the Quake?
I haven't noticed any gain control problems with mine. I have set so its sweet for movies at my usual movie listening volumes. About -12 for me. (0=75db SPL) I never go much louder than this either. If I turn it down from -12 the shaking effect is reduced, as is the sub, as expected. There will come a point where it does nothing. I think they do need a bit of ooomph to feel the shake. I can't say i have noticed any issues because the only quiet listening I do is TV (no LFE) and music (not much LFE).
What I would have liked to is to get a shaker amp with presets so you could save the gain settings and crossover for various listening modes.
eg
game
action movie
low volume
showing off
music
etc

ps I forgot to say,, I am using the XJ600 amp but this is basically a sub amp, nothing special. I am not aware that it was especially made or setup for the Quake.
 
Last edited:
The pro amp I have is a dual channel amp, with a dedicated input for each channel. Currently I split the sub woofer output and that goes into each channel of the pro amp, and the gains are set accordingly.

As you note, the shakers response increases and decreases with volume changes, as the subwoofer does, but I dont want it too. Once the shaker is set it really should perform the same no matter what the volume shouldnt it. I'm thinking the pre-outs that would normally run to another amp are normally a fixed line output, which if fed to a channel of my pro amp would mean the shakers output would be fixed. This seems like a better setup to me, rather than having to watch at a set volume for the shaker to perform at its optimum, but it sounds like no one has considered this, and the design isnt configured to run this way.

I may have to experiment, and try it to see if I like it. I dont have any eq on the shaker yet, so its responding upto 80hz, which is ok, but probably not best.
 
Transducers do take a lot of setting up wrt x-over, EQ and gain, it took me a while to get something I was happy with, but once properly tweaked should behave as an extension of the sub (imo). I can't imagine having the shake level independent of audio volume, I don't think it would work - turn the volume down to answer the phone and it's still shaking like mad :confused:.

The setup is obviously a personal choice, but for me the goal is to give the illusion of a ground-shaking sub. Maybe more tweaking/EQ is required..

m4rky - if you want presets you could try using a Behringer DCX2496 before the amp, which has as many preset settings as you like (you can name them) and also does x-over, parametric EQ, phase, dynamic EQ (EQ that varies with volume), per-input gain, per-output gain and a bunch of other stuff. It has 3 inputs which can be matrixed in any combination to 6 outputs - eg 1 LFE input outputting to subs and shakers, each output with its own settings. I'm not sure the gain is saved with the presets, but you could achieve similar using an EQ boost. You can also just press a button underneath any input or output and adjust its gain. It's a very cool gadget.
 
Maybe I just need to get the EQ in it sorted out better. It does bug me when it stops responding on lower volumes though, but maybe its something I will just have to live with. Thing is I would actually want the shaker more on lower volume to make up for the sub being quieter, and if I balance it to work just right at lower volumes, then turning it up has it bottoming out.

Part of my issue with it bottoming must have more to do with 40hz-80hz reproduction. I need to get my BFD going I think, but Ive just not been bothered with all the sub building :D
 
Transducers do take a lot of setting up wrt x-over, EQ and gain, it took me a while to get something I was happy with, but once properly tweaked should behave as an extension of the sub (imo). I can't imagine having the shake level independent of audio volume, I don't think it would work - turn the volume down to answer the phone and it's still shaking like mad :confused:.

I thought the same. I can't see whats wrong with less shaking at lower volumes. That is how it should be. Unless you are trying to use it as some sort of low volume dynamic EQ night mode thingy...

The setup is obviously a personal choice, but for me the goal is to give the illusion of a ground-shaking sub. Maybe more tweaking/EQ is required..

+1 to that,

The tendency for me at first was to have it cranked up too high. It adds a lot fun to otherwise lack lustre movies but in the end adding gain to boost poor LFE soundtracks resulted in too much shaking when a good LFE movie arrives. I have mine way down compared how I began and I just accept some films are just not supposed to be that exciting in the infrasonic.

I note that few others have trod the same path too. :)

Add in the mounting options and rubber feet and there is quite a bit of tweaking to had :)

I think its well worth running spot frequency checks to understand how the whole system is behaving. If you have any EQ options just for the transducer you can then decide if you want to aim for a flat response or not. If you aim for pure fun over accuracy I think will you end up boosting around 20hz.

I have said much of this before :rolleyes:

m4rky - if you want presets you could try using a Behringer DCX2496 before the amp, which has as many preset settings as you like (you can name them) and also does x-over, parametric EQ, phase, dynamic EQ (EQ that varies with volume), per-input gain, per-output gain and a bunch of other stuff. It has 3 inputs which can be matrixed in any combination to 6 outputs - eg 1 LFE input outputting to subs and shakers, each output with its own settings. I'm not sure the gain is saved with the presets, but you could achieve similar using an EQ boost. You can also just press a button underneath any input or output and adjust its gain. It's a very cool gadget.



Thanks, I checked it out and it seems like a cool gadget. There's quite a lot to figure out and think about. I am not sure if its worth the expense and complication for what I wanted.
I couldn't figure how low the crossovers go. It would be good to give the Q10B a boost below 10hz. It seems to naturally peak around 20hz, or maybe thats just on my sofa.

So far I managed to live without presets and just aimed to set it up for movies. Which it does very well.
 
Last edited:
I notice that you guys do not say what transducers you have in your signatures! Too embarrassed ?

I simplified my sig a long time ago, so now no kit at all ......
 
I actually just never thought to update it :blush:, gimme ten

EDIT:

How's that?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Likewise, too lazy to update my sig :D

I know what you mean Dan about making up for lower volume, when you want some bass but can't have it loud. No reason not to crank the gain for those situations, of course. As mm says, LFE varies enormously from film to film and I do find I need to tweak the gain. If I'm having people over for a film I'll run the bass-heavy sequences beforehand to get an idea for the best gain for the shakers and usually tweak the sub gain as well. It helps to have a reference film to calibrate the shakers to the sub (I use "9").

Re the EQ, the lowest is 20Hz like the BFD (it is designed for speakers after all) which is not ideal, but you can have it flat extrapolated to lower frequencies, and by layering a couple of EQs with different slopes you can get a curved attenuation up to 40Hz or so. It is firmware updatable so maybe I'll get onto Behringer to see if they can change it to go down to 10Hz, just for me :laugh:.

FWIW the price of the DCX2496 and a EPX2000 amp (which will drive two shakers on each of its stereo channels) comes to less than the buttkicker 600 amp alone, I think :cool:. Oh dear, I think I am becoming a Behringer fanboy... :blush::)
 
I have the 2496 just sat here doing nothing, and the Behringer I have is used to power my sub, and I had a spare channel so my shaker amplification is pretty much free :D

Ive put the amp in another room because of the noise it makes (cat hear it at all now :grin), so tweaking the gain will be a pain. I usually have favoured settings, but I just memorise all the settings rather than having to put a film on or whatever. Ive shy'd away from the BFD a little because of the hum some people get, and because Audyssey does a good job on my sub apart from a 30hz dip I have (which its probably already trying to boost) that probably shouldnt be pushed up any more anyway.
 
Likewise, too lazy to update my sig :D

I know what you mean Dan about making up for lower volume, when you want some bass but can't have it loud. No reason not to crank the gain for those situations, of course. As mm says, LFE varies enormously from film to film and I do find I need to tweak the gain. If I'm having people over for a film I'll run the bass-heavy sequences beforehand to get an idea for the best gain for the shakers and usually tweak the sub gain as well. It helps to have a reference film to calibrate the shakers to the sub (I use "9").

Re the EQ, the lowest is 20Hz like the BFD (it is designed for speakers after all) which is not ideal, but you can have it flat extrapolated to lower frequencies, and by layering a couple of EQs with different slopes you can get a curved attenuation up to 40Hz or so. It is firmware updatable so maybe I'll get onto Behringer to see if they can change it to go down to 10Hz, just for me :laugh:.

FWIW the price of the DCX2496 and a EPX2000 amp (which will drive two shakers on each of its stereo channels) comes to less than the buttkicker 600 amp alone, I think :cool:. Oh dear, I think I am becoming a Behringer fanboy... :blush::)

The XJ600 amp has EQ points at 20, 30 and 40hz with lowest xover at 40. I found my Quake plus sofa seem to be natuarlly strong at around 20hz. The response falls quite steeply after 10hz. When listening at my shaker reference levels I find I can just about feel 5hz whereas 20hz is plenty. Would be great if I could give it a boost below 10hz.
 
Likewise, too lazy to update my sig :D

I know what you mean Dan about making up for lower volume, when you want some bass but can't have it loud. No reason not to crank the gain for those situations, of course. As mm says, LFE varies enormously from film to film and I do find I need to tweak the gain. If I'm having people over for a film I'll run the bass-heavy sequences beforehand to get an idea for the best gain for the shakers and usually tweak the sub gain as well. It helps to have a reference film to calibrate the shakers to the sub (I use "9").

I stopped doing this as it's just such a pain in the arse to be constantly fiddling with levels. I now have my shakers set to give good sensation with well mastered films (wotw, bolt etc), at my normal listening levels and if other films don't come up to scratch on bass, then the shakers dont really come on much. Now, with some films it's great, others not so much. Otherwise I found that when my mates were over, I was constantly fiddling with gain controls and not really watching the film. It takes self control, but you can do it too.:thumbsup:
 
Youve probably hit the ail on the head there, but I do think that the shakers would benefit from some sort of DEQ, where the bass response is augmented depending on volume. The difficult thing is getting that to work independent of you sub, which would required an independent processor with DEQ included, which is an expensive way to setup the shaker.

I think a dedicated shaker amp, with pre set eq modes and DEQ would be wicked, and I reckon thats the way forward with shaker technology.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Is 4K Blu-ray Worth It?
Subscribe to our YouTube channel
Back
Top Bottom