Track lag / Network audio delay with PS Audio PerfectWave DAC II

Lee337

Novice Member
Hi

I posted not too long ago about my new Audiolab 6000N and the fact it takes 4 seconds for a track to start playing when I start a track, seek through a track or randomly pick a track. It was fine though when starting a new track after the one currently playing.

Turned out it was part of the DTS Play Fi system really and nothing to be done about it. Hence, it is going back as being useless to me.

Now I have managed to secure a PS Audio PerfectWave DAC with Ethernet / Network Bridge card.

So I had some trouble with this too. I am still getting the 4 second delay, weirdly! I am also experiencing the music dropping after 5 seconds every time. Following on from something Cebolla advised me to do with Foobar, my favourite, I amended the output on the upnp part of Foobar settings to WAV as default. This has stopped the issue of the music stopping altogether so that's great.

However, I still have the issue of the delay in the track starting. The only other experience I have with this type of thing is my SoTM SMS 200, which I am looking to replace possibly. This unit never has an issue. I put it into MPD/DLNA mode and it starts and stops and seeks immediately. So does anyone have any ideas as to why I am getting this delay with the PS Audio? Is it because it's upnp whereas the SMS 200 is DLNA/MPD? I really am lost. I have messed about with buffer sizes with no difference.

The PerfectWave sounds extremely good and if I can get this delay removed, or even shortened a bit, it would be amazing.

I'm only guessing here but could the issue be Foobar? Or these types of players? I have tried MusicBee with the same delay. I am curious whether me using Bubble or some other software and controlling via mobile would improve the delay? I don't understand the differences between the 2 methods well enough to know and would rather not spend days trying it out just to have the same delay, that has been the result of everything else I have tried to date lol.

Just seems really odd that out of the three streaming devices that I have tried, 2 have a delay. With the Audiolab it was part of the actual device and I am hoping it's not the same here. Thanks.

I don't have a complex system. PC with HD full of FLAC -> Virgin router -> SMS (-> DAC)/PS Audio -> integrated amp.
 

larkone

Member
If the PS Audio has a USB input why not try connecting the PC to it directly and take the network out of the equation as part of a process of elimination.
 

Lee337

Novice Member
Hi, I have done that as part of testing it upon purchase and to compare sound quality between sources. I found that via ethernet, as usual in my opinion, was significantly better. I couldn't use USB now, knowing the bridge sounds that bit better. As expected, there was no lag (latency?) at all via USB. Given the choice I would suffer the lag but I'd rather not suffer. Plus I'm convinced there's a way of decreasing or eliminating the lag. Thank you.
 

larkone

Member
The point is to now work back until it obvious at what point the lag is being introduced, I was not suggesting this as the solution.
 

Lee337

Novice Member
It would be the ethernet / bridge, but not necessarily that method completely as the SMS 200 works great. I didn't think you were, just explaining why I don't stick with USB. Can't understand why the SMS behaves perfectly and the 6000N and this PWD behave similarly with their delay. Software? Are the delaying devices buffering / storing?

My network seems good. Stumped.
 

Cebolla

Member
Had you said you'd acquired the infamous original PS Audio Bridge, you'd certainly be getting a reputation for picking lemons :)!
Having said that, the Bridge II was supposed to have been created from scratch to overcome the original's problems (especially its lack of gapless playback support), so it is (a bit) surprising that you are having issues with it.

Unlike the 6000N, the Bridge II is not a DTS Play-FI device and instead uses ConversDigital's mconnect hardware to provide it with its UPnP/DLNA renderer, ie, they are completely different streamers. So the Bridge II having a similar start streaming playback delay problem as the 6000N does make it advisable to carefully revisit the UPnP/DLNA controller software you've tried with them.

In your other thread, you mentioned getting the audio delay on the 6000N using 'BubbleUPnP', as well as MusicBee & foobar2000 (with the foo_out_upnp plugin). Can you confirm that you did mean the BubbleUPnP Android app?
Have you tested the BubbleUPnP Android app with the Bridge II yet?
Also, are you using MusicBee with its UPnP plugin configured to output as a continuous stream?


Incidentally, the sMS-200 uses the upmdcli application to provide it with a UPnP/DLNA renderer, ie, despite its name, you are getting a UPnP/DLNA renderer when the sMS is set to the DLNA/MPD mode.
 
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Lee337

Novice Member
Ahem, I'm not sure how to break this but it IS the Bridge I I believe! I did not know it didn't do gapless. Is that the issue then? Even if the next track plays as it should, if left to? In my defence I did choose well initially with the SMS 200. :)

I did mean the bubbleupnp app for Android yes. I must have tried lots, just to see if no gap was possible. I have a feeling that it might be Foobar being the problem. Most apps only saw Foobar as a source, so I guessed it was causing the delay. I did stumble upon a combination of software that gave me instant playback. I think it was a combination of Twonky on my PC and using mconnect on my phone. (I just need to know what to install on my pc and phone. What does what?)

I'm not too sure on using bubbleupnp to connect to the Bridge. I think I lack some of the basics as to what's needed, having relied solely on Foobar. Servers, media servers, renderers etc has me confused tbh. I'm going to back through everything now as I have updated the Bridge firmware, prevented the stopping of tracks and so just the delay now. I would happily go headless or use any software to be rid of the delay and having briefly glimpsed the possibility, there is hope! Having said that, I do enjoy it as a DAC and streamer so will learn to live with it if I must.

So, from what you say, am I right inn thinking that Bubbleupnp can link with the Bridge to 'pull' the music as opposed to Foobar pushing it or am I totally not understanding it all lol?

Many thanks.
 

Cebolla

Member
Blimey, it might be an idea to review your potential purchase streamer research skills. :D

We could get into a discussion about the various nuances of 'push & pull' (ultimately it boils down to the streamer always requesting the audio directly from a media server providing the audio anyway, ie, it's all 'pull' & there is no such thing as a physical 'push' of the audio). However, I don't think that's relevant here.

Given that you are no longer certain if the BubbleUPnP app also had the delayed start of playback problem with the 6000N, I now suspect the issue was actually due to the 6000N (& now also the original PS Audio Bridge) having a problem with the particular type of stream that foobar2000's foo_out_upnp plugin provides. It does not provide the actual individual audio files themselves, as media servers normally provide to streamers being controlled by apps like BubbleUPnP & mconnect Player. Instead, it provides the audio output resulting from foobar2000 itself playing the files in the playlist, so a single continuous audio stream - similar to an internet radio stream.

That's also why I asked in my previous post if you had set MusicBee UPnP plugin's output as a continuous stream option - which would get MusicBee to do similar:
1649092519057.png
 

Lee337

Novice Member
Harumph. Well, I admit that I am on the verge of returning and just getting a Lumin, which has it's own app or seems to behave with other apps. I am also eyeing the Cyrus Stream xa and Arcam ST60. I mention this as I am assuming you're going to laugh at my potential bad choices :D and can avoid them now!

Thank you for the advice. It's nice to know that I was 'probably' doing everything correctly but I just happened to pick two lemons in a row.

Do I win a prize if I pick 3 in a row?

I shall tinker further and with MusicBee and see what occurs.
 

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