TPS meetup part-2

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golden phoenix

Distinguished Member
i would like the question answered by steve

which is best

VT50 calibrated
ST50 calibrated with a lumagen

which has the better picture
 

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
i would like the question answered by steve

which is best

VT50 calibrated
ST50 calibrated with a lumagen

which has the better picture
lol good luck, I asked that on the day and got a chocolate bar thrown at me and no answer.:laugh:
 

aandpwoodley

Distinguished Member
golden phoenix said:
i would like the question answered by steve

which is best

VT50 calibrated
ST50 calibrated with a lumagen

which has the better picture
I believe the answer is it depends on the light levels in your room & will depend if you need the filter on the VT
 

Insanity202

Distinguished Member
golden phoenix said:
i would like the question answered by steve

which is best

VT50 calibrated
ST50 calibrated with a lumagen

which has the better picture
I would say a st50+luma because it will give miles better control over the image. More than what the vt alone can do, BUT only if you lighting is low.
Then you have a fantastic processor for any future upgrades ;)
 

Gboardman1959

Active Member
i would like the question answered by steve

which is best

VT50 calibrated
ST50 calibrated with a lumagen

which has the better picture
Will be a very difficult question for him to answer remember Mark how the filter on the VT made such a big difference when we saw them in Manchester .It all depends on the room they are viewed in unless you are in some sort of Bat cave
 

golden phoenix

Distinguished Member
Will be a very difficult question for him to answer remember Mark how the filter on the VT made such a big difference when we saw them in Manchester .It all depends on the room they are viewed in unless you are in some sort of Bat cave
most of my viewing is in the evening (other than weekends)..looking at johns pics...to be honest i can't tell the difference. on TPS1 the only difference i noticed was the colour was better on the VT, but throw a lumagen into the mix and were in a different ballpark i suspect with the ST's.

the filter is magnificent on the VT's but my light comes in the room from the side. and i wouldn't particularly call it a bright room.

Geoff how are you enjoying your 65" VT giving you plenty of pleasure i presume, now white strips etc
 

Gboardman1959

Active Member
most of my viewing is in the evening (other than weekends)..looking at johns pics...to be honest i can't tell the difference. on TPS1 the only difference i noticed was the colour was better on the VT, but throw a lumagen into the mix and were in a different ballpark i suspect with the ST's.

the filter is magnificent on the VT's but my light comes in the room from the side. and i wouldn't particularly call it a bright room.

Geoff how are you enjoying your 65" VT giving you plenty of pleasure i presume, now white strips etc
yep the 65" is great still not had it calibrated but i will do eventually
 

Nevaborn

Well-known Member
stucarblne said:
Don't know why it matters anyway. Dither can be turned off on 9G's in the service menu and after a few tweaks be fine.

Or it can be dealt with by the Luma - either way - that's why kuro owners report clean images with lumi's after set up.

My krpa like i always said was incredibly minimal with regard to dither on a good clean source. Sitting a foot away and really needing to look for it sort of thing. I expect my m to be no different.
Im glad people enjoy the kuros an its a good legacy for Pio but after seeing one especially next to a Panny i wouldnt touch the Kuro. The black difference is minimal to none and the Panny wins in every other area.

The comparison done was very detailed and I cant see the hype now. Back in the day of the 20 series then yea but not now.
 

aandpwoodley

Distinguished Member
Nevaborn said:
Im glad people enjoy the kuros an its a good legacy for Pio but after seeing one especially next to a Panny i wouldnt touch the Kuro. The black difference is minimal to none and the Panny wins in every other area.

The comparison done was very detailed and I cant see the hype now. Back in the day of the 20 series then yea but not now.
You have to remember 5 yrs ago the Pioneer changed everything.

The TV's we have today are because of what Pioneer did.

The 9g's are still the bench mark everything has to best, thankfully the VT's stand up well but I would still say they are no better, they do however look sexier due to the Pioneer looking a little long in the tooth.
 
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middleweight

Well-known Member
Im glad people enjoy the kuros an its a good legacy for Pio but after seeing one especially next to a Panny i wouldnt touch the Kuro. The black difference is minimal to none and the Panny wins in every other area.

The comparison done was very detailed and I cant see the hype now. Back in the day of the 20 series then yea but not now.[/QUOTEs so when are you getting one then
 

Gordon @ Convergent AV

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
No only the 65"st50 and vt50. Though due to the lumagens new fw the calibration wasnt perfect and it did show which was a shame. No fault of steves though.
The rest of the displays were calibrated with there tools on there tvs.
I know this is a TPS thread but just want to address a couple of issues.

If Steve was having problems using the new 125 point cube firmware he could have just used the older 8point system he is more used to. As far as I am aware there are no "problems" with the new firmware from lumagen. it does what it is supposed to do. If a display has a very accurate linear colour decoder then the old cms in the lumagen would be just as accurate. If Steve has come across a bug or a major issue it'd be good if he could feed it back to Lumagen or myself so it can be investigated.

On the algorithm for dither front...i think there is some confusion here. The lumagen has the ability to add differing amounts of dither to its output. This is to help hide posterisation in displays, not to remove the visibility of dither from the mechanical processes of an actual display. The lumagen scaling algorithm doesn't amplify compression noise the way others do though so it does stop the display looking as noisy in many cases but this it not the same as removing the visibility of dither from the image.

Anyway, hope that's of some use and glad you all had a grand day out!

Gordon
 

golden phoenix

Distinguished Member
lets not forget ..the VT is a Kuro hybrid, with the tech bought from pio. it is a curiosity to an age old argument about which is best, however to a certain extent, the argument is now moot, as you cannot buy a pio new, also the VT has much more in terms of features. but for just 2D and nothing else, the pio was reference in most peoples opinions. of course the VT wasn't available then, so the VT is the new trend setter hands down, and hasn't been beaten since release, by any other manufacturer this year...
 
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Rickyj at Kalibrate

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Though due to the lumagens new fw the calibration wasnt perfect and it did show which was a shame.
I obviously don't know what the issue was (whether it was a local unit issue), but in Lumagens defense, their latest firmware(s) have been very stable (and in fact their best ever due to the inclusion of the 5x5x5 colour cube), and there is no reason why a calibration can not be performed on them accurately. It is a shame you did not get to see this feature, but maybe next time.....:D

EDIT: Gordon beat me to it:suicide:
 

stucarblne

Well-known Member
Nevaborn said:
Im glad people enjoy the kuros an its a good legacy for Pio but after seeing one especially next to a Panny i wouldnt touch the Kuro. The black difference is minimal to none and the Panny wins in every other area.

The comparison done was very detailed and I cant see the hype now. Back in the day of the 20 series then yea but not now.
There seems to be a lot of self convincing going on here. If you like the vt - fair play to you. The krp for me with its exceptionally low hrs and after seeing a vt a couple of times - was basically a no brainer.
 

Nevaborn

Well-known Member
aandpwoodley said:
You have to remember 5 yrs ago the Pioneer changed everything.

The TV's we have today are because of what Pioneer did.

The 9g's are still the bench mark everything has to best, thankfully the VT's stand up well but I would still say they are know better, they do however look sexier due to the Pioneer looking a little long in the tooth.
Yea and that is great but now theres nothing in it.
 

Nevaborn

Well-known Member
Next month all being well.

Thought you were coming yesterday ? Must of been hiding behind the blinds =)
 

Nevaborn

Well-known Member
stucarblne said:
There seems to be a lot of self convincing going on here. If you like the vt - fair play to you. The krp for me with its exceptionally low hrs and after seeing a vt a couple of times - was basically a no brainer.
No self convincing at all. You just seem very down on the Panasonics. I just simply said the Kuros are fine but side by side they are no better to the Panasonics and the pannys have more to offer.
 

aandpwoodley

Distinguished Member
Nevaborn said:
Next month all being well.

Thought you were coming yesterday ? Must of been hiding behind the blinds =)
What you going for then m8, the st or VT
 

Insanity202

Distinguished Member
Gordon @ Convergent AV said:
I know this is a TPS thread but just want to address a couple of issues.

If Steve was having problems using the new 125 point cube firmware he could have just used the older 8point system he is more used to. As far as I am aware there are no "problems" with the new firmware from lumagen. it does what it is supposed to do. If a display has a very accurate linear colour decoder then the old cms in the lumagen would be just as accurate. If Steve has come across a bug or a major issue it'd be good if he could feed it back to Lumagen or myself so it can be investigated.

On the algorithm for dither front...i think there is some confusion here. The lumagen has the ability to add differing amounts of dither to its output. This is to help hide posterisation in displays, not to remove the visibility of dither from the mechanical processes of an actual display. The lumagen scaling algorithm doesn't amplify compression noise the way others do though so it does stop the display looking as noisy in many cases but this it not the same as removing the visibility of dither from the image.

Anyway, hope that's of some use and glad you all had a grand day out!

Gordon
I may have got it wrong Gordon but im sure he said it was a bug...though i could be wrong. ;)
Im sure Steve will come along and post to clear this up.
 

Insanity202

Distinguished Member

Scooby2000

Distinguished Member
I obviously don't know what the issue was (whether it was a local unit issue), but in Lumagens defense, their latest firmware(s) have been very stable (and in fact their best ever due to the inclusion of the 5x5x5 colour cube), and there is no reason why a calibration can not be performed on them accurately. It is a shame you did not get to see this feature, but maybe next time.....:D

EDIT: Gordon beat me to it:suicide:
There's some confusion going on here I think, there were time constraints on Steve to set multiple sets up and he simply didn't have time to do what he wanted. Can't be easy propping so many sets in one night. I also thought the issue was with the set not the lumi I may be remembering wrong but the lumi was fine with the 65" ST.
 

aandpwoodley

Distinguished Member
Scooby2000 said:
There's some confusion going on here I think, there were time constraints on Steve to set multiple sets up and he simply didn't have time to do what he wanted. Can't be easy propping so many sets in one night. I also thought the issue was with the set not the lumi I may be remembering wrong but the lumi was fine with the 65" ST.
I believe your correct scoob, just a lack of time
 

Insanity202

Distinguished Member
Scooby2000 said:
There's some confusion going on here I think, there were time constraints on Steve to set multiple sets up and he simply didn't have time to do what he wanted. Can't be easy propping so many sets in one night. I also thought the issue was with the set not the lumi I may be remembering wrong but the lumi was fine with the 65" ST.
Your could right there mate and ive got the wrong end of the stick and upside down ;)
Either way there a mint bit of kit.
All going well i may just be able to buy one of these at the end of next year.
 
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