Question TP Link VR2800 losing internet with Netgear Switch

Parklife

Active Member
Just bought a TP Link Archer VR2800 to replace my awful BT Smart HUB (on my fifth HUB) and got it all set up fine. When I connect either of my 2 Netgear switches (GS608 or JGS516-20) it causes the internet to drop out - I can still access the admin pages on the TP link and the rest of the home network is accessible.

The switches connect to a patch panel which then allows me to have network points in each room in the house.

The network all worked fine with the BT Hubs, just won't play since I replaced it with the TP link.

Any ideas?
 

mickevh

Distinguished Member
Sounds like an IP address conflict rather than an issue with the switches themsleves. (Both switches are unmanaged, so there's virtually nothing in them to "go wrong" - certainly not the symptoms described.)

If you have literally just changed your router, the IP addressing can get in a mess whilst DHCP leases from your old router unwind and new leases get issues by your new router. (DHCP provides IP addresses to devices automatically - there are DHCP Servers in your routers.) Typically this takes 24 hours or so.

The simplest thing is to just leave it alone for 24 hours after which it should sort itself out automatically. Power cycling all your devices (router first) might help speed things along a bit sooner.

If that fails, it's likely that something connected to your switches is the cause of the conflict rather than the switches themselves. You could prove/disprove this by physically disconnecting (unpatching) everything from your switches, turn off your routers Wi-Fi, connect the switches to your router, add a single "test" computer and see whether it works or not.

Thence, (assuming this first test is passed,) gradually add your devices back in one by one and see which one (if any) knocks out the Internet. Then re-enable Wi-Fi and repeat for your Wi-Fi devices.

Looking at the VR2800 manual, it's default IP address is 192.168.1.1 which differs from BT (from memory they use 192.168.1.254) so it's possible a device you have is currently using an IP lease your BT HomeHub would have issued that would be conflicting with you "new" routers IP address (thereby knockout out the Internet) until whatever is using 192.168.1.1 is changed (if it was set manually) or automatically relinquishes it (if it was provided by DHCP.) Though I'm guessing the BT Hubs default DHCP range as I don't have data on them to hand.
 
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Parklife

Active Member
Thanks, literally swapped the routers yesterday lunchtime.

I'll try leaving for 24 hours to see if that resolves it.

If not will try devices one by one - not so easy this one as it is not too accessible.
 
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mickevh

Distinguished Member
If not will try devices one by one - not so easy this one as it is not too accessible.
Rather that disconnect the edge devices at "their" end, I'd un-patch them at the switches themselves which are presumably easier to access (and of course, all in one place.) It doesn't matter which end of the links to your "client" devices you disconnect, what want we want to achieve is to isolate the switches so we can prove the switches are not the cause of the problem themselves.

Literally, just pull all the patch cables out of the switches (and the LAN ports on your router,) then add back in the "uplinks" patches between switches and router, then add in my" test" computer, then gradually patch back in all the edge devices, then Wi-Fi.

Hopefully, it won't come to that if IP sorts itself out.
 

Parklife

Active Member
I think I have got to the bottom of it after trying each device one by one.

It seems it is my Synology NAS causing an issue - it has a queue of pictures to upload to a cloud drive and whilst it does this nothing else gets any internet access and the router thinks it is disconnected from broadband, even the NAS reports it is no longer accessible from the internet.

Never had this with either sky or BT routers so is a bit odd, but the NAS chugs along uploading the pictures.

Thanks for the advice, not quite sure what to do now though!
 

mickevh

Distinguished Member
Have you checked NAS's IP address...? IP address conflicts can cause things to come and go seemingly at random.

If NAS is shoving out data so fast that it's saturating your Internet link (and/or router capacity) it could prevent other things working, though in such a scenario would expect Internet usage be really slow and/or "time out" rather than just "not be there." For example, I'd expect you to still be able to ping your router, but I suppose it's possible it could become so overwhelmed it (router) can't even answer ping.

If that is the case (I am still somewhat sceptical) maybe have a look as the upload technology on your NAS and see if there's some way to "throttle" it's usage down. Some routers offer such "traffic shaping" technology, though I'd prefer to do it at source if possible.
 

Parklife

Active Member
NAS IP is fine - I set it a static IP out of the range BT would have allocated. When the issue occurs the webpage for the router is reporting internet disconnected, but the actual router shows that it is connected. I get a cannot reach this page on any site I try to access. As soon as I pause the uploads on the NAS all is OK again. I can ping the router when the issue occurs.

I have some options in the NAS that I can alter either to limit the upload and download speeds of the files, or can set a schedule so that it only runs at certain times.

For some reason the router doesn't seem to be handling other traffic very well, as the same thing happened when downloading a software update and trying to access websites at the same time. On my BT router on both NAS uploads and software downloads generally anything web based would be slower but not completely stop like it is now.

BUT in normal operation I can see a vast improvement over the BT router! Hopefully fibre will be in the area in a few months!!
 

mickevh

Distinguished Member
In that case, it sounds like it's not a very good router. Maybe it's worth checking the router vendor's support pages and see if anyone else reports such symptoms. I'm generally averse to recommending "random" software upgrades, but you could check and see if there's any firmware updates available for your router - especially if any such updates address the symptoms you are suffering (otherwise a "scatter gun" approach to software upgrades is basically just guessing and hoping for the best.)
 

Parklife

Active Member
Thanks. Checked and no firmware updates. Was making sure I hadn't missed anything obvious before getting onto the manufacturer. Will double check the support pages otherwise will see if I can get it replaced.

Really appreciate your help.
 

mickevh

Distinguished Member
FYI - I just happened to be on Tim Higgins (AKA "SmallNetBuilder") web site and had a quick look to see if he has data for LAN-to-WAN routing capacity for your router. I couldn't find your exact model (in an admittedly not very thorough search) but the other TP-Link routers of recent vintage have of the order of 700-800mbps LAN-to-WAN routing capacity, so it would tend to suggest your router ought to have the "grunt" to be able your traffic levels.
 

Parklife

Active Member
Just waiting for a response from TP. Have sent them various bits of data they requested.
 

Parklife

Active Member
Still waiting for TP to get back to me. Keep chasing them.

I have taken the router out though, I was getting random connectivity drop outs on devices (even when traffic was quiet - no uploads or downloads). Same symptoms as when an upload or download was taking place. Sometimes it would resolve itself, other times had to reboot the router. Now this is odd as this exact same thing was happening with my BT Smart HUBs - all 5 of them that I have had. DSL light always stays on with the TP router and the Smart HUB, but devices attached to the network have no internet access.

So I replaced the TP with my Smart HUB and sure enough after a few days it started doing the same - random connectivity drop outs regardless of traffic that often required a reboot of the router.

Have replaced my Smart HUB with a Home HUB 4 (as I did previously when I got fed up of the issue) and it works fine - although it appears a bit slower and wifi is not as good.

Makes me wonder if there is a more fundamental issue with my connection that the newer routers cannot handle?

Been on to BT and they have reset my line and advised to put the Smart HUB back in which I have and here are my current router stats

Data rate: 448 Kbps / 7.07 Mbps

Maximum data rate: 1196 / 7496

Noise margin: 24 dB / 6.5 dB

Line attenuation: 43 dB

Signal attenuation: 27 dB / 43 dB

I questioned the 24dB noise margin and they said this was fine.......any suggestions on this one?
 

neilball

Well-known Member
Are any of the switches managed or are they all unmanaged? Do you have any Sonos kit wired to the network? Do you network switch activity lights show traffic across all connected ports when you have problems? I have had issues with Spanning Tree Protocol when I've used managed switches with Sonos - the wireless mesh and wired network connections created loops that caused a network broadcast storm, flooding the network with activity that prevented normal operation. Might be a long shot not worth being aware of, especially if you get the same problems with different routers (which tends to suggest the problem lies elsewhere).
 

mickevh

Distinguished Member
0.5mbps upload rates might suggest when your Internet goes dead when your NAS was uploading - 0.5 mbps isn't a lot in comparison to what's available today. 0.5 up / 7 down suggests you are on something like an 8mbps ADSL package - does that sound about right..?

(Though I appreciate there are still plenty of people who would kill to have something that "good.")

If your NAS will let you throttle NAS uploads to less than (say) 0.25mbps that should leave you some bandwidth available for other traffic.

It's ages since I looked at ADSL, but from memory the 24dB figure isn't anything to worry about, though I cannot remember why. If you were to Google "ADSL Line Statistics Explanation" I'm sure you'll find something that describes it all.
 
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Parklife

Active Member
Are any of the switches managed or are they all unmanaged? Do you have any Sonos kit wired to the network? Do you network switch activity lights show traffic across all connected ports when you have problems? I have had issues with Spanning Tree Protocol when I've used managed switches with Sonos - the wireless mesh and wired network connections created loops that caused a network broadcast storm, flooding the network with activity that prevented normal operation. Might be a long shot not worth being aware of, especially if you get the same problems with different routers (which tends to suggest the problem lies elsewhere).
Switches are both unmanaged.
No Sonos kit.
Not sure on the activity lights - I know if I am on my PC when internet access disappears I can access other network devices without issue.

It just seems odd that the old Hub 4 works absolutely fine!
 

Parklife

Active Member
Yes an 8Mb package - fastest available currently although fibre is supposed to be sometime in next 6 months.

Set the NAS to only upload during the night so can rule that out as the issue now.

Just these random drop outs when not much is going on has me stumped. TP traffic monitor only showed 70Kbs being used at the time so I know the network was quiet.

Clutching at any idea as I am not convinced it is anything connected when the old Hub 4 works fine. Weird one!
 

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