Total newbie projection screen question

dazed&confused

Well-known Member
Hi

I've always been into my hifi, and also I have a decent 5.1 AV setup which I use with my Panasonic plasma TV, but I know nothing whatsoever about projectors. I'm just about to rearrange the lounge/diner furniture and build some wall units, etc., and I'm toying with the idea of making space for a projector and screen with a future purchase in mind.

What I'd like to know is if my idea is even feasible. The screen would have to be suspended from the ceiling rather than against a wall, as it would need to face the room diagonally, and it would need to be removed when not in use as it would look pretty ridiculous if is was a permeant fixture (obviously there would have to be a couple of permanent brackets in the ceiling, or on top of a couple of adjacent wall units).

So,

1. Is it possible to get a screen that could easily be temporarily hooked onto a couple of ceiling brackets, then pulled down to keep a tight, flat surface when it is in situ, even though it wouldn't have a rigid frame or any anchor points?
2. Would it be a major hassle or long job to line up the projector with the screen each time the screen is brought out to play?
3. Are moderately priced projectors silent enough to be situated just a few feet away from the listening position?
4. What else do I need to consider (I'm presuming I don't need to worry too much about room darkness at this very early stage of the 'planning' process)?

Thanks,

David.
 

ShanePJ

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
Hi

Optoma make pull up screens DP-1095MWL

For one with hooks, you'll see Optoma have instructions on the hook option DS-9092PWC

As for aligning the projector, the more you do it the quicker you'll be. I suspect it'll take you longer to hook the screen than place the projector. My advice on using a projector this way is to treat it like a fine wine (especially if its stored in a cold place). Leave it to get to room temperature before powering on. The other side is when you have used it, remember that the element within the lamp is a fragile component, so if you don't need to move it, don't until the projector is cool to touch and leave it where it is. If you can leave it over night, that'll be better as this is the area which will shorten the lamp life

As for which projector to use to make setup easy. One with electronic zoom and shift will mean that once you placed the unit, the only thing you should have to do is minor adjustments. If its a manual option, it will mean may have to adjust more than just the focus as and minimal zoom

For placement, where are you going to situate the projector? If its by your ears when sat down, then remember it will be noisy

Depending upon your budget, something like the Optoma UHZ65UST would be ideal as a part time projector as the HDMI cable will not need to be that long, its very quiet and very easy to setup. You also don't need to worry about the lamp as its a simple plug and play then pack away option

If you are going to place the projector on a coffee table, remember the cable, power cable length, also the offset as not all projectors will angle the image upwards to a ceiling screen hence maybe another reason for a pull up portable screen. The other side will be the throw distance. So where you are going to place the projector, make sure you have taken a measurement before purchasing as again, some until will only work with certain screen sizes with others being far more flexible

I use a pull up screen at home home which is hidden behind my TV Unit as my setup is on an unusual angle and required a simple solution to obtain it
 

noob0101

Active Member
Hi

I've always been into my hifi, and also I have a decent 5.1 AV setup which I use with my Panasonic plasma TV, but I know nothing whatsoever about projectors. I'm just about to rearrange the lounge/diner furniture and build some wall units, etc., and I'm toying with the idea of making space for a projector and screen with a future purchase in mind.

What I'd like to know is if my idea is even feasible. The screen would have to be suspended from the ceiling rather than against a wall, as it would need to face the room diagonally, and it would need to be removed when not in use as it would look pretty ridiculous if is was a permeant fixture (obviously there would have to be a couple of permanent brackets in the ceiling, or on top of a couple of adjacent wall units).

So,

1. Is it possible to get a screen that could easily be temporarily hooked onto a couple of ceiling brackets, then pulled down to keep a tight, flat surface when it is in situ, even though it wouldn't have a rigid frame or any anchor points?
2. Would it be a major hassle or long job to line up the projector with the screen each time the screen is brought out to play?
3. Are moderately priced projectors silent enough to be situated just a few feet away from the listening position?
4. What else do I need to consider (I'm presuming I don't need to worry too much about room darkness at this very early stage of the 'planning' process)?

Thanks,

David.

The room needs to be dark for viewing.

How high is the ceiling?

If a projector is loud/quiet is subjective.

How far away will the projector be placed, or where can it be placed?

Seating distance?

1080p or 4K?

Budget?

Maybe a room plan or some photos to get an idea of what the setup is like.
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
I love projectors and the images you get vs television however large but only when the room does it justice

I suspect you will be able to get a system to get the screen in place and PJ aligned well enough but my fear is the need to get the room well enough treated to obtain suitable contrast will be too much of a compromise
 

dazed&confused

Well-known Member
I love projectors and the images you get vs television however large but only when the room does it justice

I suspect you will be able to get a system to get the screen in place and PJ aligned well enough but my fear is the need to get the room well enough treated to obtain suitable contrast will be too much of a compromise
Hi Shane

Thank you for taking the trouble to reply.

I wasn't aware there is such a thing as pull-up screens, which I presume can sit on the floor. How do these, and pull down screens, stay rigid and crease free without any frame, especially when they are in 'free space' rather than sat against a wall?

I would probably prefer a pull-down screen, provided, as you say, that the distance from the projector is sufficient.

Can I ask why you used Optoma as examples? I've had a quick look at your online store and you have a lot of Spitfire screens?

David.
 

dazed&confused

Well-known Member
The room needs to be dark for viewing.

How high is the ceiling?

If a projector is loud/quiet is subjective.

How far away will the projector be placed, or where can it be placed?

Seating distance?

1080p or 4K?

Budget?

Maybe a room plan or some photos to get an idea of what the setup is like.
Hi

Yes, I will try and post some pictures over the next few days - thank you for looking.

The ceiling is only 228cm high (barely 7'6")

Viewing would be from two sofas placed at an angle to each other (roughly 140 degrees) with the front of their arms almost touching, and with the back of the one sofa touching the rear wall.

My preference would be to mount the projector between the two sofas, on a shelf as high as I can up the wall, so I guess it would be just a few feet or so from ears. Or perhaps mount the projector directly to the ceiling, although currently there is a pendant light hanging from the middle of the ceiling (albeit not very low), so the image would somehow need to get past this if I did not remove the light. The alternative would be to place it between the sofas and the screen, as Shane suggests, on a platform such as a small table.

The distance from the seats/projector and the screen would be roughly between 9 and 10 feet on the horizontal, if the projector were on the rear wall.

Budget - I would prefer to buy used, unless I could get a really good deal on new kit by trading in some very nice hifi stuff I need to sell. Let's say cost for used equipment would be up to about £1500 or so?

1080p or 4k - I guess whatever gives best performance per pound, taking account of the limitation of my source. I have the Audiocom Signature 'hot-rodded' version of the Oppo 105D, which I have no plans to change as it is a superb audio player. It also has superior picture spec to the standard Opp and (like the standard Oppo) it does 4Kx2K upscaling but, from what very little I've read, upscaling is not the same as a 4k disc with all its other picture features. In other words, I don't know whether or not upscaling is really worthwhile.

I imagine I would prefer a projector with the electronic shift and zoom features that Shane mentioned.

Assuming they're considerably more expensive, I'm wondering why people would want an electric screen, rather than simply just pulling a chord. Is there any advantage apart from being flash?
 
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dazed&confused

Well-known Member
I love projectors and the images you get vs television however large but only when the room does it justice

I suspect you will be able to get a system to get the screen in place and PJ aligned well enough but my fear is the need to get the room well enough treated to obtain suitable contrast will be too much of a compromise
Ha, I thought this point may come up!

I really am quite clueless, I'm afraid, about how dark I really need it.

The windows have both wood venetian blind and curtains, and if necessary I could get black-out screens or blinds. What I don't think I'm going to be able to compromise on is having a white ceiling, doors, coving, architrave, etc. I suppose there may be some possibility of getting curtains that could be drawn across the doors. The windows are on the wall that the projector screen would be facing, and the curtains are not bright - the rest of that wall is currently bare.

As I say, I will try and post some pics soon (the room is like a junkyard at the moment).

I saw a post yesterday, I think, which said grey screens are better for a brighter room. And I've just seem something about Ambient Light Rejecting (ALR) screens but I have no idea whether they come in pull down versions or how expensive they may be.
 
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noob0101

Active Member
Hi

Yes, I will try and post some pictures over the next few days - thank you for looking.

The ceiling is only 228cm high (barely 7'6")

Viewing would be from two sofas placed at an angle to each other (roughly 140 degrees) with the front of their arms almost touching, and with the back of the one sofa touching the rear wall.

My preference would be to mount the projector between the two sofas, on a shelf as high as I can up the wall, so I guess it would be just a few feet or so from ears. Or perhaps mount the projector directly to the ceiling, although currently there is a pendant light hanging from the middle of the ceiling (albeit not very low), so the image would somehow need to get past this if I did not remove the light. The alternative would be to place it between the sofas and the screen, as Shane suggests, on a platform such as a small table.

The distance from the seats/projector and the screen would be roughly between 9 and 10 feet on the horizontal, if the projector were on the rear wall.

Budget - I would prefer to buy used, unless I could get a really good deal on new kit by trading in some very nice hifi stuff I need to sell. Let's say cost for used equipment would be up to about £1500 or so?

1080p or 4k - I guess whatever gives best performance per pound, taking account of the limitation of my source. I have the Audiocom Signature 'hot-rodded' version of the Oppo 105D, which I have no plans to change as it is a superb audio player. It also has superior picture spec to the standard Opp and (like the standard Oppo) it does 4Kx2K upscaling but, from what very little I've read, upscaling is not the same as a 4k disc with all its other picture features. In other words, I don't know whether or not upscaling is really worthwhile.

I imagine I would prefer a projector with the electronic shift and zoom features that Shane mentioned.

Assuming they're considerably more expensive, I'm wondering why people would want an electric screen, rather than simply just pulling a chord. Is there any advantage apart from being flash?

What is the source?

From that seating distance the screen size is usually 100-120" diagonal 16:9.
I don't recommend grey screens since they require more brightness from the projector and do little to help with reflections.
ALR screens require more throw ratio then is available.
But no screen will help if the room is not dark. That is all windows must be shades that are opaque, unless you plan to watch only at night.

The projector needs to be perpendicular to the screen. So it can't be at an angle. If it is, keystone will have to be used and that will degrade the picture quality since it's software.

It's not clear if the Oppo can support 4K or not. From the specificaitons it seems input can't be higher than 1080p30Hz.

There are projectors with little lens shift, such as this one:

Then there are others that have more lens shift, some which have it motorized:
At the bottom of the page, after the screen size is selected, there is a section calld lens shift.
If both horizontal and vertical are used at the same time, the values are reduced:

But you should be fine with a model that does not have lens shift, as in once it's installed it should not be an issue with it requiring moving it or using lens shift.
 

ShanePJ

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
Hi Shane

Thank you for taking the trouble to reply.

I wasn't aware there is such a thing as pull-up screens, which I presume can sit on the floor. How do these, and pull down screens, stay rigid and crease free without any frame, especially when they are in 'free space' rather than sat against a wall?

I would probably prefer a pull-down screen, provided, as you say, that the distance from the projector is sufficient.

Can I ask why you used Optoma as examples? I've had a quick look at your online store and you have a lot of Spitfire screens?

David.
None of the (None Tensioned) screens are completely rigid, but usually the curl issue effects the black border section and because of the way the screen is manufactured, the viewable section is (as a rule) very flat. The reason for suggestion Optoma over our own screen is quite simple. We offer fixed screens and electric, but no manual options. If you was going for a fixed screen, I would say that using one of the spitfire screen in a no brainer at the prices as we have cut the middle man out and the fabric is a very good quality as we have not scraped on that one factor as we enjoy showing our projectors off in our showrooms

As for blacks and shadow levels, don't expect OLED black levels or even good quality flagship level LED TV levels if you cannot control the lighting in the room. With my projector at home, I have a not so great light controlled room as it's part of my living room and I didn't want a room which felt dark when I'm not using the projector. So, I purchased some blackout curtains (sorry I cannot remember from where now as it was some time ago) which helps with unwanted lighted in the room from the window and I simply turn the lights off so that the only light in the room is being reflected by the projection screen.

I know I'm very happy with the results as it just does enough and I'd say its not that dissimilar to light leakage you get at the actual cinema (or at least the cinema I go to) as they always have lights on for the emergency exits

If you expect OLED black levels, this is where the cost start to escalate as you really need to look at controlling the reflective properties of the room plus look at some of the best JVC have to offer. You need to also pay close attention to screen gain as to high will create more glare in the room and to low a gain could remove the contrast impact the projector gives.

With gain, you could use a grey screen with a gain of 0.8 in a lighter room to pull some black level back, but as a rule, for home cinema, a standard range from 1.0 to 1.4 seems fine in my experience of showing projector over the years and is a level that I've seem people are comfortable with.

As this will be your first venture, I would really say that making sure its easy to use is the key first as this will be the first obstacle with you having to keep setting it up every time you wish to watch it (hence for mentioning the Optoma projector - other similar options are available to as its just a plonk and play)

One thing I will say is that I have yet to experience a home cinema which includes a projector not outperform a TV option and that includes some rather large TV screens in my time. You see with projection, you just get a different textured experience that TV's don't deliver, yes some are certainly better with black detail and HDR which goes without question. But for everything else, they are so far behind, they feel almost flat whereas a projector seems to deliver depth. It's like comparing good hi-fi with ordinary hi-fi. There is just something that is unquantifiable in the experience, but its so obvious and like good high, it probably attaches itself a little of the emotional experience of having to interact with it creating an even

Another big thing is if your room is very bright, then don't go for the biggest screen you can get into the room, using a little common sense really helps as a smaller screen will help with brightness levels as there is a lesser area for the light to spread. The other side is be aware of where the sun comes into the room as sunlight is the destroyer of the projectors beam of light. If the light is coming from the rear of the room and the projector is also pointing it's light in that direction (rear to front of the room), the sun will always win, especially on bright days. If you do control the light effectively however, you can escape this to a good degree. If the light is coming for other directions (but remember some light control is an absolute requirement), this still effects the beam, but not its not as bad (but is still not good either)
 

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