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Toshiba RDSX34 High Speed Dubbing

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by jamba, Jun 11, 2005.

  1. jamba

    jamba
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    I am a newbie to dvd recording and have just bought the Tosh 34. When I try to do a High Speed Dubbing to a blank DVR-RW or DVD-RAm disc it gives the message that the disc does not allow additional content. It wont allow me to do a High Speed Dub from HDD to DVD. The only way I can transfer my playlist to HDD is to do a rate conversion dub and I end up losing my chapters?
    Any solutions to this problem?
     
  2. sinclair

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    As you might expect, this is abnormal. The only thing I can suggest is that you reformat the discs and try again, failing which I'd get onto Tosh tech support
     
  3. whatdoiknow

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    Sorry to hi-jack your thread but I have a query regarding dubbing and also re my queries in a thread below where I mentioned I had a Toshiba 54 when in fact it is the 34.

    I have copied direct to disc at the SP level some soccer action, when played back on the Tosh it looks OK but when played back on other players the picture stutters in places. Is this normal, is it the Tosh recording?

    Secondly having read the manual (or parts of it) am I right in saying that if I record onto the HDD footage that is about 2hrs 20min in length I cannot do a high speed dub to disc as there would have to be a rate conversion to get it to fit on the disc.

    Thanks,

    Martin
     
  4. jamba

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    I think you are right and I have found out where I went wrong. My HDD footage is 2h21min and it wont fit onto a dvd. I suppose I have to downsample it before dubbing onto DVD. What is the best way to do this?Do I have to do the rate conversion onto HDD first?
     
  5. redsox_mark

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    The amount you can fit on a disc depends on the recording setting (bitrate) you used. The only significance of 2:20 is that is the the maximum time before it drops to lower resolution. You can fit as much as 6 hours on a single DVD (but the quality will be low at this setting).

    In the manual there is a table which shows in detail how much time you can fit on a disc depending on the settings used. At SP mode (with standard "M1" audio) it is about 2 hours.

    If you have say 2:21 recorded at SP (4.6), it won't fit, so yes you would need to do a rate conversion dub. You can do a rate conversion dub directly from HDD to DVD, or if you prefer from HDD to HDD. (You might want to do this if you want to add chapter points before the final dub to DVD, note any chapter points you set previously are lost in a rate conversion dub).

    Mark
     
  6. whatdoiknow

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    Mark, your a star, I didn't know you could dub HDD to HDD and then replace the lost chapters, I was just about to consign it to our brand new wheelie bins.

    Will try tomorrow.

    Thanks again,

    Martin.

    P.S. I tried an 8x Verbatim disc and it seemed to record fine for nearly two hours then suddenly stopped, and said cannot record because disc is dirty, is this because I used an 8x disc or would the new disc actually have been dirty.
     
  7. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    If it is a new disc I doubt it really was dirty. Not all 8x discs are a problem, but it may be it doesn't like the media. Verbatims are generally good, but they do differ - they use different manufacturers. I have found the pastel coloured ones (TY02 dye) are excellent.

    Mark
     
  8. whatdoiknow

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    Thanks again Mark, I really do appreciate you taking the time to answer, they were white printable on one side, I had a pack of 10 so I will try another.

    Martin
     
  9. phelings

    phelings
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    As long as the HDD recording is at the same quality level as the intended dvd you can do a high speed dub,and retain all the chapters you have marked before dubbing.
    Obviously you can only do this if you know the final running time of your completed edit.
    So if its 2h20,then record it at that level on the HDD and high speed it to DVD.
    If you don't know what the running time will be,then lost chapters and real time dubbing is the best option to maintain quality
     
  10. whatdoiknow

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    Thanks for that.

    What I did last night was record to HDD in the best setting a 2hr 19m video. I than converted this on the HDD so that it would fit on one disc, added the chapter breaks then pressed the button to fast dub to DVD and ......................

    It came up with an error message:-

    "DVD recording was terminated because a title or chapter with non-standard properties was detected"

    Anyone else had this message and knows what it means, can't find it in the book. I would just add that it is a video filmed by me with lots of transitions etc, and it also copied itself on the HDD so why not to disc?

    Thanks,

    Martin
     
  11. redsox_mark

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    I'm pretty sure I know why this happened.

    I suspect you do not have DVD compatibility mode set to on. Set this in the options to on, Mode I.

    You've been unlucky; this DVD compability only is an issue if a rate of 3.2 to 3.8 is used; your video length is right on the border between needing a rate of 3.8 and 4.0, I bet it used 3.8.

    With DVD compatibility mode off, it uses a non-standard resolution which works fine on the HDD, but can't be dubbed to DVD.

    After you have set DVD compatibility mode to on, you'll need to do yet another rate conversion dub, which will create a DVD complient video on your HDD. You'll have to add chapters again, and then dub to DVD - and this time it should work.

    I agree the manual doesn't cover this area well at all.

    Once you've set the option to have DVD compatibility on, you shouldn't see this problem again in future.

    Mark
     
  12. whatdoiknow

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    Thanks once again Mark, I will give that a try when I get home tonight, bit of a bummer though, at least it will get me practised in doing rate conversions and chaptering. :smashin:

    Martin
     
  13. whatdoiknow

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    Well, I managed to achieve what I wanted, a 2hr 18min video to disc, I have to say that I am very disappointed with the quality, the picture is very soft and looks a bit blurred not really what I expected although the jerkiness is not there that was visible when recording the original direct to disc.

    I will have to try and reduce the length of the original video and try again.

    I have to say that the manual is a bit odd, it keeps sending you back and forth to follow what I would have said were continuous instructions.

    Martin
     
  14. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    Martin,

    Yes, it is common opinion that the manual can be confusing. Once you get the hang of the beast it is OK.

    I'm not suprised the quality was dissapointing. Firstly, if the video had been 2:18 it would have fit using a rate of 4.0, which would have been full resolution, and would have dubbed in high speed regardless. But 2:19 drops it to 3.8. As DVD compatibility mode was off, it used a non-standard resolution - between "full" and "half". But this can't be supported on DVD, so you had to do another encoding which would use half resolution.

    Half resolution will not be as clear, and the fact that you have had to do multiple encodings will only make it worse - i.e. if possible you want to avoid doing rate conversion dubs.

    Now that you have DVD compatible mode set you won't have to do the additional rate conversion dub in future. But it is still true that if the length is more than 2:18 the resolution will drop. Best to keep it under 2:18 if you can.

    Mark
     
  15. whatdoiknow

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    Thanks again Mark, I was re-editing on my N.L.E. system last night trying to get near that 2 hour figure but can't, I think I managed to get to less than 2hrs 10m, (I'm at work so can't check) so I will re-record to HDD.

    One further question, when I recorded direct to disc in my first trials the quality was excellent but the playback on my cheapo standalone was quite jerky, yet the lower resolution apart from the quality of picture played back fine.

    Someone I spoke to mentioned that recording to HDD first and then to disc was the better option, why would that be?

    Thanks,

    Martin
     
  16. redsox_mark

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    2:10 would still be full resolution - the cutoff point is around 2:18, when it drops from a rate of 4.0 to 3.8. So the quality should look good.

    When you recorded direct to disc, what kind of disc was this? DVD-RAM, or -R/-RW? If it was -R/-RW then it should have been half resolution. I never record directly to disc, not because of any quality concerns but because I usually will want to edit, or even if not it is so easy to do a high speed dub later. It shouldn't really effect the quality; unless maybe it is more difficult for the recorder to encode and burn at the same time? (If you record to HDD, then later when you do a high speed dub to DVD, all it has to do is burn the file without any complex processing). Maybe the recorder makes more errors if it has to encode and burn on the fly? (I've never heard this, but it seems possible. )

    Mark
     
  17. whatdoiknow

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    It was direct to two different -R discs, anyway I will retry tonight and as you say it really isn't a problem recording on HDD first as I really didn't buy it to record off air but to make specific DVD's from my editing system, plus copy some kids videos so they can watch them on our new in car system.

    Martin
     
  18. JimBob1971

    JimBob1971
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    I'm following this thread with interest Mark. I still have to record my first disc so have benefited from the info here. I thought the cut off for full res was 2.20, but it seems 2.18 is nearer the mark. I've made a playlist of 2.19:21, so I guess i'll have to trim at least 22 seconds or so off.

    A few questions:
    -How can you tell if a disk is full or half-res before/after it has been burnt?
    -How do I ask the machine to specify the best rate possible? (This may become clear after I burn my first disc!)
    -How much space would thumbnails/main picture for the disc take? Obviously this depends on how many thumbnails, but with ,say, 10 would a 2.18.50 recording drop to half res because of this?

    Thanks again
     
  19. redsox_mark

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    Well, If you want to be able to be in control, manually set the rate. So, in your case set the rate of 4.0. If it doesn't fit it will tell you.

    You can set the rate to "auto", but then you don't have the control over what rate it chooses. There is no way to tell from the recorder what rate or resolution was used. (You can tell by reading it on a PC with an application which can report the resolution, like an editing application).

    The menus/thumbnails take up very little room. But the recording times are approximate, you may be able to fit a bit more or less depending on how complex your footage is. Try DVD-RW first to make sure you can get it to fit and work, then you can dub to DVD-R.

    Mark
     
  20. whatdoiknow

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    Success at last, finally managed to record to HDD 2hrs 6 min of footage, create chapters and fast dub to DVD, it only takes about 10 minutes, I am quite impressed after early doubts.

    I let the Tosh do the rate for me and worked out at 4.2 I think, any way I am very pleased with the quality.

    The discs playback fine in my Tesco cheapie no pixelation or stuttering at all.

    Many thanks to Mark for his assistance, very valuable.

    Mind you lots of things to remember like the record rate will always use the last rate, which I found out after I had recorded the whole 2 and a bit hours twice.

    Regards,

    Martin
     
  21. whatdoiknow

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    Oops got carried away a bit there, I had been checking the end of the discs to ensure the whole video was on, I then decided to check the starts as these DVDs are to be sold and three out of nine suffer from pixellation problems, so not as good as I first thought.
     
  22. redsox_mark

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    Martin,

    Nearly there then! If it just some of the discs you may need to consider different media.

    Mark
     
  23. whatdoiknow

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    Hi Mark,

    Your probably right, these were Verbatum white printable 8x discs, I understand the dye on them could differ but I cannot see any markings on the discs or the box as to what indicates this.

    Thanks

    Martin
     
  24. whatdoiknow

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    Further update :-

    Bought some more discs I thought they were Verbatim 4x according to the advertising picture but they were the same as the others, 8x, anyway I continued to record them, they turned out to be a bit more stable than the first batch.

    Some oddities though, I always check them on my cheapo Hikona (Tesco) player to see if they work and about 3 in 10 come up as "wrong disc" but these play fine in my ICE DVD player and now apparently on a friends Panasonic HS2.

    Also every so often on my Hikona it will not show the normal menu but a very basic one and say that the chapters are VOB files and these play with some difficulty, why would this be?

    Thanks,

    Martin
     
  25. JimBob1971

    JimBob1971
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    I thought the Tosh burnt at 4X? So it will work with higher speed disks? Up to which speed? I have only ever used imation 4X -rws and everyone has burnt and played fine.
     
  26. whatdoiknow

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    " I thought the Tosh burnt at 4X?"

    It probably does but burns on to 8x discs. I haven't been able to lay my hands on any 4x discs.
     

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