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Toshiba 52WM48P or Samsung SP-50L7HX

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by Tufan, Aug 1, 2005.

  1. Tufan

    Tufan
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    Well, I lean for DLP :clap: but I need to make a choice. Did anyone have the chance of comparing these 2 sets side by side at a store? Please help me to decide (even if you didn't see them side by side but trust your view). Please neglect the costs differences.
     
  2. Razor

    Razor
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    Tufan :hiya:

    A similar thread was done a week or so ago

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229885

    I would go for the samsung 50' as it doesnt have as many issues as the 52' Tosh. Also bare in mind that Tosh are updating their range in a month or 2.

    Good luck and welcome to the forums. :thumbsup:
     
  3. Tufan

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    Thanks Razor :smashin:


    I understand that Sammy is just slightly ahead of the game. I liked the design and it is also good that it comes with that interesting stand.

    But at the end, I will buy for the PQ and after after making a little bit more search in this forum, I noticed someone who actually switched from Toshiba to Sammy and this is a good reference to consider.

    Now my only doubt is related with the new series of Toshiba coming in few months. My current TV is a Philips rear projection and it is almost dead. So if the change in technology is not a big step, I prefer to change immediately. I also think that new technology would be more expensive.

    Any comments?
     
  4. Razor

    Razor
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    :hiya:
    There are a few members that have swapped from a tosh to a samsung Soni & Kableman being a few of the members I can remember.

    I too have an ageing philips rear pro 46' and the guns are fading. It hasnt got much time left. Its currently in my bedroom (I moved it from my lounge when I got my RD65) waiting to be replaced by a 50' DLP.

    http://www.homecinemachoice.com/reviews/hccreviews/Televisions/Philips/Philips46PP950105.php

    What philips rear pro have you got?
    :D
     
  5. Br41ns

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    Tufan :hiya:


    I would go for the sammy, without being biased(maybe a teensy bit).
    I demoed the tosh when i was looking for my new set, i also demoed the sagem and i have to say that the sammy won on all accounts, hence why i got one.
    The PQ is excellent and it looks the part switched off. :smashin:



    Razor :hiya:

    :eek: A 50" in your bedroom, what size is your room. At least you can always kick the mrs to the room so you can watch HD without any interruptions. :D
    Id love to get at least a 46 for my room but i dont think id ever leave my bed. :boring:
     
  6. Tufan

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    Razor

    My Philips is a very rare and old model, 48P915 - 6903. I think this was produced for a non-Europe region but I ended up buying that as it was very well priced ;) We had some good 4 years together but now it is time for bedroom :cool: (good idea Razor and it will fit my bedroom even if my wife is in there br14n but I need to change the lamps, any cheap source?)

    I finally found a shop where I could play with the Sammy and I will write my findings at a another title now.
     
  7. Razor

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    br14n :hiya:

    LOL.... :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Its hard leaving my RD65 even for a 46' set and a bed. :smashin:

    Tufan :hiya:

    I got a quote for lamps only 4-5 weeks ago.

    £350 each gun (3 guns needed) :mad: :mad: :mad:
    £300 for installing the guns and they take the set away for 3 days, it cant be done at your home. :mad:

    Your best option is to work it untill it fades completely. Thats my plan. :devil:

    My dad has the older 46' model of your current set. His is still going, no bulb change but the picture is suffering now.

    :D
     
  8. soni

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    Hi Razor :hiya:
    Hi Tufan :hiya:
    Hi br14n :hiya:

    :rolleyes:

    Yep - i sure did own one of those Tosh's! Couldn't put up with the motion blur on panning shots so returned it - was VERY lucky that i managed it really as i owned it for a little over 4 months!

    Now i own the Sammy!

    This might be a bit of a strange comparison - but here goes. I train it to Victoria train station quite often and whilst approaching Battersea Power Station (on the right of me) - on the other side there's another old building similar type looking - anyway, the speed of the train, the size of the building, and the closeness to the building, really gives you that WOW factor for a fraction of a second - everytime i go by that building it reminds me of the Sammy!! The Sammy has really smooth panning - its just awesome! I know i'm strange!!! I watched Pirates Of The Carribean last night (not really my type of film but Johnny played a really cool part) and the amount of panning in that film above the water, approaching the islands etc, really looks great - i'm really glad i got the Sammy as if i had kept the Tosh i would have missed out on all these great panning shots - another film that looks smart is Tears Of The Sun (might have got the title wrong but the one with Bruce Willis) although theres only a couple of decent bits of panning - the bits that are there look really cool on the Sammy. Although i've been noticing that even digital tv has looked really cool recently on some panning shots - the TV seems to be getting even better!

    I've gone on for long enough - out! :hiya:
     
  9. KableMan

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    The Samsung SP50L7HX is head and shoulders above the Toshiba - no comparison - best decision I ever made buying it :smashin: No regrets, well one, I bought the Toshiba first and then spent £300 returning it :( I should have bought the Sammy first time around. It goes from strength to strength. Even rainbows are a thing of the past :thumbsup:

    Oh and the instore feeds and demos of the Samsung do not do it justice or come close to actually owning one :D

    Cheers
    KableMan
     
  10. Mark_a

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    I think out of the box the Samsung is probably better, on balance, than the Tosh. But I didn't buy the Samy 'cos I really, really didn't like the height of the screen on the non-adjustable stand. Too high by about six inches for my liking. Also I think the Samy has a naturally softer picture than the Tosh. But there's no doubt the Tosh suffers from motion blur due to none too powerful on-board processing. It's at its worst on low grade Sky/Freeview pictures, and much as I like watching DVDs, that's what I watch most of, so I had to do something to clean up the Sky problem.

    I fixed all the problems with an external Lumagen DVi video processor and now I have the best of both - razor sharp pictures, no blurring, and a screen at a height I can live with. Whether you think it's worth spending another £800 to fix something that shouldn't be wrong in the first place, is up to you. But bear in mind at the time I bought my Tosh it was nearly a grand cheaper than the Samy or the Sagem 56, so Tosh plus Lumagen only brings it up into the same price range.

    I'm glad I didn't buy the Samy now as I can use my Lumagen on my Sanyo projector which improves its picture too, so I win all round. Something that wouldn't have been possible if I hadn't been forced into it by the Tosh's processing shortcomings, and had bought a Samy or Sagem instead.

    Regards

    Mark
     
  11. soni

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    I agree with Mark_a that the Tosh was slightly sharper than the Sammy - which i did prefer. However, the blurring was evident even on the highest bitrate DVD's that i watched on the Tosh, and there was just no way i could have put up with that. However, one thing that i believe is due to the Sammy's slightly softer picture is its WOW factor during panning shots - looks VERY cinematically smooth - if you look at my previous post above you'll see my comparison to the building opposite Battersea Power Station whilst on the train. I know i keep on about it but the Sammy produces a very lifelike pan, something i could have never had with the Tosh :mad:

    Oh, and by the way Tufan - i've read your other post elsewhere where you believe your not affected by rainbows. A word of caution - you would be very lucky if you saw a rainbow in store - its just to bright. I NEVER saw a single rainbow on the Tosh in the 4 and a bit months that i owned it. I was actually beginning to feel a little left out wondering what this phenomenon actually was - as i tried everything i could to force it including but not limited to constant head shaking, eye rattling, you name it i tried it. However, with the Sammy i can force them everytime under the right conditions, i.e., at night in the dark, black background with bright colours, something that i found totally impossible with the Tosh. Although, i have heard others say they were the other way around - Kableman :hiya: for one hasn't seen rainbows on the Sammy, but did seem them on the Tosh :devil:
     
  12. Mark_a

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    I don't think the Tosh's problems are strictly bit-rate related. The thing that really makes it struggle is low grade, grainy, pixilated images. The sort you see most of on low-bit Sky channels. It's the speed (or lack of it) that it processes inputs that causes the blurring. The less it has to do, such as from a high quality DVD, the less blurring you'll get, as the Tosh can mostly keep up with it. Though even then it's not entirely eliminated, just greatly reduced.

    However, feed it a 60Hz 1280x720p picture over HDMI and it has to do pretty much sod all in the way of processing and just bung it up on the screen. This is what a Lumagen processor does for you. So I feed everything through it, including my scaling DVD Pany S97 DVD player. As the Lumagen's much better at deinterlacing and scaling, and messing with the output frequency, than even the Pany is (Sky and Freeview don't even give you the choice), I even feed that to the Lumagen at standard interlaced definition too. The upshot of that is I get perfect pictures from all sources. So, sadly, I didn't need to buy the Pany S97 at all, as I now get just as good pictures from my Pioneer 3100 DVD recorder, as the Lumagen levels the playing field across the board.

    But then that's always the way. You buy something expecting it to do something specific for you and you end up either changing your mind, or buying something else that makes it redundant. In this round of upgrades I've managed to spend well over £300 on things I ultimately didn't need, or use.

    The bottom line is the Tosh is ferociously good with what amounts to a high def feed to it. It's just not that happy with standard def stuff as possibly the others are. Perhaps a little ahead of its time, maybe? Though having said that, I'm sure the Sagem and the Samy are/will be equally as good as the Tosh with HiDef when it gets here.

    Regards

    Mark
     
  13. soni

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    I've got to totally disagree with that comment Mark_a:- :devil:

    I've got, and also had at the time of owning the Tosh, the Denon 2910 HDMI upscaling DVD player that was connected to the Tosh via a £60.00 QED HDMI cable. The blurring was evident on even the best of DVD's. I-Robot, The Day After Tommorrow, etc., etc. I, as well as i'm sure Kableman :hiya:, tried absolutely everything to rid the blurring. Razor :hiya: especially attempted to help me sought the blurring out by suggesting i output at 60hz, via HDMI, etc., etc., and NOTHING helped. And before you mention the Faroudja chip within the Denon as being the culprit, other members with different players were also experiencing problems, so that rules that one out.

    I think you have to be very carefull when labelling something as 'The bottom line is the Tosh is ferociously good with what amounts to a high def feed to it', as most people in the market for a new TV won't be in the position to fork out for a decent upscaling player to output via HDMI - and by the time they have got the money to purchase the player and see that the blurring is still there - it will be to late for them to return the set. :mad:

    The word on the forums is 'test before you buy'. However, even though i had tested the set prior to purchase, i truly thought i could live with a little bit of blurring here and there (as i had been led to believe on these forums it was isolated to particular films only). But i soon realised that it wasn't only that film, but indeed the majority of panning on any film, and soon my patience wore thin. :devil:
     
  14. Razor

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    I personally think that the Tosh has got a poo scaller/processor. If you replace it with a near £1000 unit you should get good results. (Basically the scaller is doing the work not the Tosh).

    The tosh set is the only set not to have Faroudja technology, which in my opinon is where it goes wrong. Tosh tried to cut corners and save cash and they have messed up. :nono:
    Thier new range how ever has the Faroudja technology so I think they have learnt a good lesson much to the cost of its current customers/owners. :oops:

    I know how much pain members like soni :hiya: and kableman :hiya: went through with this set. At first they loved it, then they lived with it for a while and began to hate the sort comings of this set.

    A scaller/processor is a nice peice of kit to have if you can afford it and you will definately get excellent results with it. I was looking at getting one to correct the RD65's 60Hz issue.

    I dont think HD will correct the problem that the Tosh has, the only cure is a scaller/processor.

    :thumbsup:
     
  15. Mark_a

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    Hey, all I can tell you is that you're absolutely right, an upscaling DVD won't cure the problem completely. The point being, is all the Lumagen is doing is giving it as near to HiDef now as you can get at the moment, and it does it with ordinary SD feeds. Something giving out genuine HiDef in the first place shouldn't need it. But not having any genuine HiDef feeds I cannot say for sure.

    And if the Pany S97 is anything to go by, upscaling/deinterlacing of a non-High Def DVD doesn't do it 100% either. Then again the whole thing only cost £160. The Lumagen simply does, but as you say, it bloody well should for being near a grand. And if you want one you'd better do it quick as they're about to put the price back up from its special summer deal of £695.

    Regards

    Mark
     
  16. willwood

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    After over 3 months of living with the Tosh I have to say I am utterly happy with it. I never see rainbows and amazingly I never see the motion blur. It was neve a massive problem to me in the first place but its amazing how your brain/eyes gets used to things and you no longer notice them.
     
  17. soni

    soni
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    I couldn't see the rainbows either on the Tosh - but a word of advice - don't go looking for the motion blur if you can't allready see it, cause it will drive you crazy and only get worse :eek:
     
  18. Razor

    Razor
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    Soni :hiya:

    Good advice. :thumbsup:
     
  19. Hartigan

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    Ditto. Mine is fine. Capable of some excellent stuff. Not yet noticed motion blur on sports coverage (which is where I expected to see it) and getting the settings right seems to eliminate 'oil paint' effects. But I do see the occasional rainbow, tho it's not enough to put me off. And some of the transmissions on Sky border on unwatchable. Which I WAS warrned about in advance - thanks guys!

    Basically, I'm happy with it at the price I paid and I would recommend anyone else purchase on the same basis. But if you can afford more, you'll probably see an improvement.
     
  20. soni

    soni
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    :hiya: Razor and Hartigan

    Its a specific type of pan that creates the blurring - mostly on films, you could watch football all day long and never notice it!

    Shame about the blurring, as the sharpness of the Tosh's picture was out-of-this-world :smashin:
     
  21. Hartigan

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    Soni :hiya: (and Razor better have one too or he won't speak to me again... :hiya:)

    Thanks for that info. Never noticed it on films either. But that's probably cos I was looking for it on the footy. Now I'll probably notice it all the time!

    Oh no! He killed my Tosh! You bastard!!! :D (only kidding! Kenny will never die!)
     
  22. Elephant Man

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    :hiya: Soni

    So are you saying the Tosh's picture is sharper than the Sammys?
     
  23. KableMan

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    The Toshiba is sharper than the Samsung via RF and SCART and possibly via component with non-HD stuff but I can't be sure as I have the cheaper Samsung HD850 which has been criticised for its not too sharp component output. So the component connections on the samsung may perform better with SD with a better DVD player.

    But anything via HDMI and HD via component is super sharp - and in my opinion sharper and more vibrant than the Toshiba. I'm comparing HD played from the same PC via DVI->HDMI and the Samsung is fantastic. Infact it can be too sharp via HDMI especially when upscaling normal DVD's. Anyone who has seen the praying mantis on the samsung could never criticise its sharpness - it makes you gasp it's so jaw droppingly good. I've also watched a lot of HDTV stuff from the US and although this isn't true HD - no where near in fact - it is also often breathtaking for sharpness, clarity of detail and vibrancy of colour - LOST in particular looks gorgeous :smashin:

    I have my XBOX connected via component with the Hi-Def pack and playing games at 480p, 720p and one at 1080i and I watch divx upscaled to 1080i and it too is pin sharp - and you can really see this up close on many games.

    Also when you watch HD material with the Samsung all talk of green tints and green blocking noise in blacks (which is visible when you look up close on some poor quality DVD's - especially when upscaled) vanishes - the images are immaculate. This TV was born to display HD images.

    I have even been able to achieve 1:1 pixel mapping when connected via HDMI and it is truly an amazing site - I can clearly see the individual pixels that make up the font in this text from an inch away - this is as sharp a picture as I have ever seen on any high-end CRT monitor or LCD.

    I was not able to achieve 1:1 pixel mapping on the Toshiba and when viewing the same HD material via HDMI I saw the motion blur and this was the nail in the coffin for me. I found that video with close ups of real people moving and talking still had the oil paint effect and motion blurring. If I could see the same artifacts with HD then I knew I would not be happy keeping the Toshiba and would always worry about how it would perform and I regretted buying it. I'm a perfectionist and a piccy bugger like that.

    But the samsung has exceeded my expectations - its silky smooth when it needs to be, it cinematic at just the right moments and its pin sharp when dealing with its true bread and butter :D :clap: :thumbsup: :cool:

    Cheers
    KableMan

    Edit: Just to prove my point here's a couple of :censored: pictures from a popular sequel where a couple of lovely young ladies get a fever on an island in full 720p HD :blush:

    ps. The pictures don't do it justice either - they look much better on the Samsung in the flesh so to speak :eek:
     

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  24. willwood

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    Oh I did notice them early on, but not anymore.
     
  25. domtheone

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    LOL Kableman :D

    Don't care much for Ms Jane myself but Devon :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

    That pic of her looks great on your Sammy :)

    Keep em coming ;)
     
  26. soni

    soni
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    :hiya: Elephant Man, Kableman, Razor, Hartigan, and everybody else out there:hiya:

    Kableman, those pictures mate look absolutely fandasydosy!!!

    I haven't tried any Hi-Def out on mine yet as i haven't got a DVI out on the PC, only VGA, and therefore didn't want to disappoint myself with my first glimpse of hi-def - so have decided to wait until Sky Hi-Def is up and running.

    Anyway, I've got a little surprise for all you guys out there. I did a little research before i bought the Sammy, and whilst i still had the Tosh sitting in my lounge waiting for collection by those lovely chappies at Comet, i decided to take some photos of the Sammy in store linked via my own Denon 2910 and HDMI, and also the same part of the film on the Tosh sitting in my lounge again linked to my own Denon 2910 player and HDMI. I was about to show Kableman (as he was also going through the same as me - i,e, returning the Tosh for the Sammy) but i got my knuckles wrapped for being naughty :eek: and took a months holiday :cool: So i never got around to doing it! :mad:

    Anyway, how many of you out there would like to see a side by side comparison, 3 photos from Gladiator on each set, and 1 photo from The Day After Tomorrow on each set, which i can assure you all is an honest comparison, as even though i have the Sammy, i have no favoritism towards either model - i'm an honest bloke and speak my word - even though it does sometimes get me into trouble:devil:

    I think both models have there plus side and their minus, the Tosh for example (in my honest opinion) has the sharper picture, whilst the Sammy has a more cinematic look to the picture and some beautifully smooth panning which gives you that WOW factor every time - whereas on the Tosh panning irritated me every time.

    Anyway guys, how many of you want to see the side by side photos?

    If i can get enough shouts i will post em up!
     
  27. Razor

    Razor
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    Kableman :hiya:

    Good post and good pictures. (Why have you taken a picture of a lady whose fallen over and on the floor? [​IMG] ) :D

    HD is the way forward, its just taking too long to get to the UK. These DLP set's do come to life with a good HD feed, the detail and colours are amazing. Not to mention the depth. :eek:

    With regards to the tosh and samsung comparason I always felt as though the samsung was a more polished product. More refined. Samsung are leaders in big screen displays and they love DLP's. I think this was tosh's first go at DLP technology, as far as I know.


    Soni :hiya:

    Go for the pictures mate. Secret stash hey nudge nudge, wink wink. [​IMG]

    :D
     
  28. Elephant Man

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    IR 3 DVD VERSION i
    I need a better camera
     

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  29. soni

    soni
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    You know me Razor - allways got something up my sleeve!! :)

    I'm in the basement as we speak searching through my vast archives :D
     
  30. Razor

    Razor
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    Great pictures elephant man :thumbsup:

    The skin tone is spot on. :smashin:

    HD [​IMG]
     

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