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Toshiba 46WM48 £1100

Discussion in 'TVs' started by weyland-yutani, Sep 26, 2005.

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  1. weyland-yutani

    weyland-yutani
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    any reason i should turn my nose up at this bagain? any major downpoints i've missed since checking it out a few months ago, when it was £1600.
     
  2. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    Check out the threads.

    Both Toshiba DLP models have picture issues. I auditioned Toshiba, Samsung and Sagem models before buying my current screen.

    The Toshibas have digital picture artefacts and blurring during horizontal motion. Also, contrast, brightness and colour saturation was noticeably poorer than the Sagems and Samsung models.

    In addition to the "motion blurring" issues, that effect that has been refered to as the "oil slick" effect was particularly noticeable on skin tones. No amount of picture tweaking or switching of leads rectified these problems.

    After seeing the Sagems and Samsungs do their stuff, the Toshibas weren't even a consideration.
     
  3. dalespitfire

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    Apart from HTPC running Dscaler :thumbsup:
     
  4. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    OK - so let me get this straight. It's a tossup between the Toshiba and having to attach a computer and run de-interlacing software to obtain acceptable PQ...

    ...as opposed to just turning on the Samsung and enjoying a superb, artefact-free image.

    Wonder which option holds most appeal for today's busy housewife? :D

    I've said this before - call me old fashioned, peculiar, whatever, but when I spend over a grand on a TV, I expect to simply turn it on and enjoy a quality image, without having to turn the living room into mission control with sundry hardware and software in order to achieve that goal.
     
  5. maidstoneman30s

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    The Pauly,
    I do not know why you have such a bad distaste for the Toshiba. I had several demos, prior to buying the Toshiba 46WM48P.

    I see you mentioning various '' faults'' on the screen, but not a good word to say about it.

    I have been amongst many thread posters, who have mentioned how awesome and clean the image can be, even sharper than some Sammy's. Theres one member on here who can verify the move from Tosh to Sammy and a minimal loss in sharpness.

    Overall I have , crappy feeds and decent feeds. I dont not suffer from horizontal blur on an everyday scale.
    Nor do I suffer from artifacts every day or week. It really depends on the feed and bitrate.

    I can honestlyu say, that the Tosh has impressed me with its picture quality and overall performance.

    I have a problem issue with HDMI blank spots, but thats another issue.
    Elephant man can vouch for what a good set it is.

    Not every DLP is without its flaws. If they were perfect, we wouldnt put our two pennies here at AV Forums, but instead sit on front of it with glee.

    Maidstoneman30s
     
  6. Elephant Man

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    True
     
  7. mrmoo

    mrmoo
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    I think I must be one of the first to buy this set. The picture quality is just superb and getting better. I also "auditioned" this set against some of the competition at the time. Now as then, I still prefer the image. I DON'T suffer from any weird oil paintings or blurs or UFO's with little green men. It always amuses me, I read all the slagging off and then go and watch something like Blade Runner at 1080i@60Hz with a big grin on my face. Would I buy this set again for £1100, yes, unequivocally IMHO it’s a bargain.

    I rarely comment as I'm too busy sitting in front of it with glee.
     
  8. KableMan

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    Ask General-Zod if he thinks its a bargain...

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244457

    I witnessed the same problem he's suffering with and even at £1100 I'd still consider i'd been done - its shocking that a high-end TV should have these problems and its even more shocking that anyone should have to put up with it. I'd save a little extra cash and buy one of the other (now multitude) DLP's that doesn't suffer with the same problem. I agree with Pauley that you should not need an expensive scaler to make a £1K+ TV watchable. Sorry.

    Just do a search for "blur" and you'll have plenty to read (both for and against) and consider before making a decision - at least you'll be buying with your eyes open as well.

    Cheers
    KableMan
     
  9. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    Congratulations. You're very lucky. You will be the envy of every other Toshiba owner on the planet, as you seem to have the only set that doesn't suffer from these picture issues.

    It's very simple - the picture quality is not a patch on the Samsung and Sagem models I auditioned alongside the Toshibas. Why should I have enthusiasm for a set that performs under-par compared to the competition?
    "...a minimal loss in sharpness..." means it is less sharp. I rest my case.

    I'm sorry, but I auditioned these sets on two occasions side-by-side with the Samsung 46" and 50" models as well as the Sagem 45". Same feeds, same connections, same discs. You would have to have been blind not to have seen that the PQ of the Toshibas was not in the same league as the other sets. It was very noticeable. If there had been no difference I would have bought the Tosh as it was the cheapest of the three. I couldn't even consider it after seeing the Samsungs and the Sagem.
    On my Samsung I don't suffer from horizontal blur no matter the quality of the feed - ever. Nor does the set add any "interesting" artefacts - ever.
    Wanna bet? :) Six weeks of intense viewing of the Samsung on a wide range of material and not spotted a single flaw yet - and believe me I've looked long and hard. On the other hand within minutes into both demos of both Toshiba models, the aforementioned significant flaws were apparent. That was on four different sets - immediately noticeable flaws.

    If you're happy with these sets, then that's fine - you've got your money's worth. I wasn't - that's why I bought the Samsung after several long and issue free demos. If it had shown picture issues like the Toshiba, then I wouldn't have bought it - I'd still have my 32" CRT.

    Perhaps you can give me a good reason why I should have chosen the Toshiba with its picture flaws over a set with no such faults? :confused:
     
  10. maidstoneman30s

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    I think you have convinced yourself that your own choice is the only choice.
    Well done.

    PS as for the minimal loss in sharpness,,,,, I was refering to a former TOSH user, who mentioned a loss in sharpness on the Sammy he got.

    Maidstoneman30s.
     
  11. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    Nowhere do I state that mine is the only choice. Read the other threads I have posted on. In almost all of them I stress the need to audition any set before buying, as what may be acceptable for one person may not be acceptable for another. Nowhere have I stated anything as patently ridiculous as you are suggesting. This is not the only choice, but after a couple of months and numerous demos and comparisons it was the correct choice for me.

    Judging by the comments on this thread I wonder just who exactly is trying to convince themselves of what? ;)

    Firstly we have mrmoo who claims that his Toshiba displays none of the faults of every other Toshiba DLP in the world, picture issues that are not only well documented in these forums, but in practically every professional review of the sets.

    Now we have one that outperforms a Samsung in terms of picture sharpness - another first! I would suggest that if this were the case, then the Samsung is either incorrectly set up, or performing under par. Other Toshiba owners that have switched to Samsung tell the opposite tale, I assure you. Does the very fact that you're raising the subject of a Tosh owner that switched to a Sammy not cause any pennies to drop?

    You just won't yield to the obvious conclusion, will you? I was in the market for a DLP rear-pro set. No preconceptions - went out and gave all sets a demo with an open mind. I had everything to gain -financially- by going for the Toshiba. I'd be £300 better off if I'd bought it rather than the Samsung.

    There was a very, very simple reason why I didn't. With A-B comparisons of four different Toshiba sets against Samsungs and/or Sagems, the Toshibas came out the poorest of the bunch every time. Immediately noticeable picture problems -on every set on every occasion- that the other makes did not have. Apart from these extaneous picture artefacts, contrast, brightness, colour saturation and overall PQ levels, were lacking compared to the other models. All the tweaking of the settings did nothing to alleviate any of these deficiencies.

    The Toshibas were out of the equation rather rapidly, I'm afraid. Again, I ask the question (that you have avoided answering) from my last post...
    I've convinced myself of nothing. The only thing that convinced me of anything was the superb showing of the Samsung models in demos, where they handled everything I could throw at them, with no problems whatsoever.

    Since having it in the home for the past six weeks on virtual non-stop duty and with a variety of sources, there is still not a single quibble or issue with this set. Not a single picture artefact or other flaw that I have to make allowances for or convince myself I can live with.

    The only thing that convinces me that I made the right choice is the TV I bought. Is any of that so difficult to comprehend?
     
  12. mrmoo

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    I said I don't suffer from the faults you so often like to describe. Unlike you I haven't canvassed ever Toshiba owner in the World. I can only speak for myself and I don't see artefacts or blurs or oil paintings and now rarely rainbows. I always use an HTPC and long ago discovered what was causing horizontal panning blurs on my set. Its all there back in the history. I don’t appreciate your derision, it is uncalled for and the main reason I rarely comment in this forum. I have referred your comments to the moderators. :thumbsdow
     
  13. dalespitfire

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    Erm, me Neither!

    I didn't actually buy an HTPC to improve the picture of the Tosh (mine has been fine bar Emmerdale and Corrie for some reason)

    In case you hadn't spotted these are HD ready displays, and to my knowledge a PC is currently the only way to view such material.

    Having read of people paying thousands for IScans and similar, and the thick end of £175 for sweetspot to improve PQ, I thought it couldn't hurt to try feeding SKY through Dscaler - and guess what - it looks great :clap:

    So, The Pauley, accept that some of us here are actually pleased with our sets after demoing against others (Namely LG, Sammy, Optoma AND Sagem) :smashin:
     
  14. dalespitfire

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    GO MOO!!! :clap:
     
  15. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    Refered my comments to the moderators??? :confused: Get real mate...

    Oh, and after removing the personal remark you originally had a the beginning of your post I see. Brave! :smashin:

    No one is being derisive. I am merely stating my experience and opinions of various DLPs. I am sorry that you own a DLP that didn't meet my needs. Can't help that can I?
    And in case you hadn't noticed there are several million standard definition DVD players and several billion discs sitting on the shelves of people the world over and they'll be there for quite a while. Would it be unreasonable to expect a £1,000+ piece of equipment to play these without attendant blurring and other extraneous artefacts?

    OK - but what about the majority of ordinary everyday users that don't want to attach a grand's worth of HTPC or an £800 descaler in order to achieve the quality of picture that comes as standard, straight out of the box with the Samsung? You know, the people who just want to turn on their £1,000+ purchase and plug in their DVD or Sky Box and expect it to deliver a problem free picture?

    Would you still unreservedly recommend this set as an issue free purchase?
     
  16. kmhtkmhtkmht

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    Samsung or Sagem - despite being a Sagem owner, If they made the 56 - I would've went with Samsung... It's just a better brand...
     
  17. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    Nothing wrong with his comment.
    Look, everyone wanting to make a purchasing decision can do one of two things.
    1) take someone elses advice and risk making a mistake
    2) audition the various candidates yourself under as close to controlled conditions as you can get (similar lighting for all the candidates and to your intended viewing location and the same source - take your DVD player in) to make your own decision. Oh and then buy it from the shop in case you have problems cos there's no way I'd want to ship an expensive TV anywhere other than in the back of my car. And risk making a mistake. But at least you've made the effort to make the right decision.

    There are lots of factors which can account for the same model looking awful in one demo and great in another. You would all do well to accept that someone else may have had a demo of the same set with completely different picture settings in a completely different environment and gotten a completely different impression of the performance.

    Pauley, you can't really start saying that all models of the Tosh can be as bad unless you've either seen several yourself or hear reliable stories from elsewhere which confirm your experiences. Even then, you should put your point across and let people make their own mind up. If they want to disagree with you then fine. Let them 'be wrong' (in your opinion). If the thread starter wants to take or ignore your advice, it's up to them. Hopefully they will listen to all the input rather than that from the loudest person.
     
  18. mrmoo

    mrmoo
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    Thank you Stuart, sound advice.
     
  19. dalespitfire

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    Point being? What has this to do with high def material? (And my Tosh plays the above metioned without issue by the way looking cracking via a Panny S97)

    Erm, a grand for an HTPC!!! I paid £350 for a PC that does the job without issue. I don't care what you say, there is no way a standard Sky feed will look as good as one Upscaled via FFDshow and Dscaler through HTPC (BOTH FREE UTILS!!) or a via an £800 hardware scaler.
     
  20. weyland-yutani

    weyland-yutani
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    so that's a no then?
     
  21. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    There are only two models of this TV available, the 46" and the 52". I demoed both, twice each. I went for the second demo on each as I wanted to be sure that the problem wasn't just with the first two models I tested. I must admit I was doubtful that this was the case, having seen the 46" and the 52" exhibit the same problems. But I did give them a second go anyway on two different sets. Exactly the same result.

    Now bear in mind I'm talking about four seperate demos of four seperate TVs. Not counting demos I have also casually seen the Toshiba in operation in store settings on numerous occasions. Quite often I have seen the exact same artefacts.

    The problems of blurring and solarization on these two sets have been widely reported in the trade press and in almost every forum (not just this one) discussing Toshiba's DLPs. Several members here have reported the same artefacts. As KableMan said, just do the search for "Toshiba" and "blurring" or "smearing" and you'll have plenty to read. Even on this thread where two owners claim no such artefacts on their sets, it emerges after a little scratching beneath the surface that these artefacts have been eliminated by running the sets via PCs with proprietary software to sort out the problem.

    I don't think it's going out on a limb to say this set has issues.

    Every time you drone on about this you make my point for me. With the Samsung I don't need anything extra, such as a computer attached to the TV -be it £350 or £1,000- to do "...the job without issue..." The TV does it all on its own. Strange but true...
    Er... nothing. The clue is in the phrase "...standard definition..." and the point is perfectly clear.
    No mate, that's a "Check it out it carefully for yourself." :smashin:

    Demo the set with fast moving horizontal images, on DVD or better still games. Even if you like it compare it to other makes, using the same demo materials.

    Then make up your own mind. Oh, and let us know your findings.
     
  22. dalespitfire

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    You really are quite obnoxious aren't you! Interesting you can take that tone and the Mods let it ride yet I've no doubt this comment will be pulled.

    I didn't NEED too either but there is nothing wrong with trying to improve even more on the standard SKY dross if you have a TV capable of displaying a higher quality image.
     
  23. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    Really? Are you quite sure of that? Only it seems to contradict a statement you made earlier on in the thread. When I made the statement...
    ...your reply was...
    Care to comment?


    I'm not sure what you find "obnoxious" in that statement - the use of the term "drone on" or the fact that you keep making my point for me. Either way I'd say you're being a tad hypersensitive.

    Anyway, I'm slightly thicker-skinned than some on this thread and I'd be quite happy for the remark to stay, if only to show how for the second time in this debate (the first comment was removed) the opposing side has resorted to personal abuse. It's also the second time someone in the opposing camp has stated or implied that the mods should somehow take issue with my comments.

    I'm commenting on a TV set, whereas the opposing side in this debate is resorting to personal abuse and urging that I should be censured for my comments.

    Doesn't bode well for your argument in the eyes of the impartial observer, does it? :)
     
  24. Kazman

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    Erm, I demoed the Toshies too, and also saw the blurring and solarisation.

    Went for the Sagem instead, and am now waiting in anticipation for its arrival.

    <----runs and hides before getting flamed for butting in.
     
  25. mrmoo

    mrmoo
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    EDIT: I should know better.

    I have no intention of feeding trolls and have reported you again. I urge others who find this person equally obnoxious to do the same.
     
  26. mrmoo

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    Don't allow the baiting, use the exclamation triangle on the character bar left, let the mods sort it out. It just damages the forum.
     
  27. weyland-yutani

    weyland-yutani
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    christ on a bike, calm down will you!

    i think i've got enough info from both sides, so thank you but i'll ask the mods to close this before one of you get banned.
     
  28. mrmoo

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  29. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    :confused:
    Am I missing something here?

    I came on here in response to Weyland Yutani's query and pointed out blurring issues with the Toshiba sets.

    Mrmoo comes on claiming there are no such issues with the set, and in the course of the thread tries (unsuccessfully) to have me banned / chastised / whatever for continuing to argue the case.

    Then in his last post he points us to two threads where he details his experiences of motion blurring on this set. Complete with a picture!

    Like I said, am I missing something here? :confused:
     
  30. mrmoo

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    I said no such thing. I said I don't suffer with any problems, I never said why and you didn't bother to ask. I've not tried to have you banned; I just wish you would try to be civil and stop mis-quoting and making assumptions on others behalf. I have absolutely no problem with your opinion, only the sarcastic and rude manner in which your deliver it. It would appear that you are missing something, manners.

    In between the sarcasm if you’re going to use my comments in summation, at least be accurate. I've only seen occasional horizontal panning blurs via scart/component signals, usually on low bitrate Sky channels. I stopped looking when I found that it was related in some way to interlacing. And I use an HTPC to get the best possible picture, nothing to do with picture problems. It's just peachy that upscaled deinterlaced TV at 60Hz removes any blur for me, but it wasn’t a problem before either. For me at £1100 it's a brilliant set, what I save on a more expensive set and a DVD-HDMI player will pretty much buy me an HTPC. And if you’re not using an HTPC on a DLP, why not? Upscaling players just don’t compare.
     
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