Toshiba 330 quirk?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Barry Bingham, Aug 9, 2003.

  1. Barry Bingham

    Barry Bingham
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    Calling all 330 owners.

    I can now agree with Bonzobanana that the component output from the Tosh is the best - and, I'm relieved to say, that my Loewe is capable of displaying those images in all their glory, BUT:

    It has taken me ages (and exchanges of Tosh and cables) to get here. And the reason appears to lie with the Tosh rather than the Loewe - unless this is a quirk which the two of them produce in combination. Perhaps other 330 owners could comment, because on RGB by SCART at least, they may be unaware that the picture could be better.

    The answer to my woes - and the source of the problem - was the "EPM" - enhanced picture mode control. If I boot up the Tosh with the EPM on the default "normal" I get indifferent picture quality on both component and rgb. On component I get frequent loss of signal on some DVDs, and less frequent losses on RGB.

    However as soon as I select any of the EPM options, the signal losses cease and the picture becomes richer and deeper and fabulously detailed. If I then return to "normal" the picture gets even better - because the standard black level gives the best results with all material whatever format you output it in.

    Unfortunately once I have turned the player off, turning on again sees the poor picture and signal losses return. If, however, I leave it set to any of the EPM modes, this does not happen. But they are not as good so basically I have to use this "workaround" every time I power up the tosh in order to get what is undoubtedly a fabulous component picture - even better than the stunning RGB output from my Denon ADV700.

    I'm thinking of asking Tosh about this as it's a feature of both the 330s I've had. But in case it really is a quirk uniquely apparent on Loewes can any 330 owners tell me if they find the picture gets better by starting out on an EPM mode and then returning to "normal"???? It happens on both component (massively obvious)and RGB SCART (noticeable).
     
  2. bonzobanana

    bonzobanana
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    I think this may be unique to your Loewe. I've been testing mine and while normal isn't my prefered setting (I actually use movie1 most of the time). Normal just appears to be the same when I come back to it. I wonder if your Loewe is adjusting voltage/sensitivity somehow and the procedure you are using is improving the picture because of this.
     
  3. Barry Bingham

    Barry Bingham
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    Thanks Bonzonbanana for doing some testing. Perhaps you are right and the Loewe has to be "taught" the Tosh's message- but why only in "normal"? Note that if I left the Tosh in movie1 all the time there would not be a problem. Even after turning off and on again. The problem only occurs when you turn the Tosh off while it is set to "normal". The problem appears when you turn on again. So my workaround is to try to remember to change to movie1 or 2 before power off.

    Once the player is on and then turned to "normal" the problem does not recur, even if in the meantime I change to another AV input to watch sky or freeview. The fact that it doesn't happen when the Tosh is, on power-off, left on an EPM setting other than normal is what makes me question the idea that the Loewe is responsible - that and the fact that it happens to a lesser degree on RGB - where my Denon deck has no such problems.

    This matters to me because the "normal" black level is spot on for the Loewe - as I suspect it may be for many other direct view CRTs.
     
  4. Darth_Fisto

    Darth_Fisto
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    I have just noticed this, although I don't think it is the same thing. When I boot up in "normal", it looks good, but if I select another EPM and then come back to "normal" the picture looks too bright. Strange, eh?

    So basically I'll have to remember not to touch the EPM button ;)
     
  5. Barry Bingham

    Barry Bingham
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    Darth_Fisto

    Yes, spooky. And in effect this is part of what the Tosh does on my set. Because in addition to being unstable the picture is flatter and darker, it does become brighter when I go to another EPM and then return to "normal". It's just that on the Loewe the "brighter" picture is the right picture. And none of the other EPMs are the right picture. If they were I'd ignore this characteristic.

    I'm going to speak to Loewe about this in the next couple of days. And then maybe I'll contact Toshiba. Your comments tend to make me think there may be a Tosh issue here - but that perhaps the Loewe is extra sensitive to this..... on RGB as well as component. It certainly has no problems on RGB with any of the following: a '00 Grundig 210, a '01 Denon ADV700 or even an '03 £50 Cyberhome 402.........

    I'll be posting again if I get anything sensible from my enquiries of either...
     
  6. Sam Darwish

    Sam Darwish
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    Can I ask how you connect from component to your Loewe? I do not have component connectors on the back of my Loewe but it does accept it via scart. Is there a cable that goes from three input compnent to scart?

    I can get RGB scart out of my Sony DVPNS900V but the component sockets are the typical three sockets rather than scart.

    Please advise. Thanks.
     
  7. Dangermouse2000

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    I have noticed the EPM quirk on my 330.
    I have just got a Panasonic 32PD30 and when setting up the picture using the THX config on some dvd's; When the player is first switched on, the drop shadow on the Brightness test is not displayed.
    Changing EPM mode and then back to normal fixes this problem. It's not that the picture is just darker when first switched on. The player doesn't seem to output all the black level detail either.
    This happens when using any of the outputs on the tosh.
     
  8. GadgetObsessed

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    Dangermouse2000 - Does this mean that your 330 works with the PD30 (i.e. you dont lose black detail) when you change the EPM mode.

    If so it is looking more and more like the problem I am having with the PD30 is due to some incompatability with the DVD player and I just need to get a player that has adjustable black levels.
     
  9. Dangermouse2000

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    garydhooper

    No. The Black level crushing is still a problem on the PD30. If you adjust the brightness so it looks half ok, switching EPM just makes everything look grey and washed out...too much brightness. Black details are still missing.

    I will be testing a few things tonight with a friends older panasoinc tv and dvd to see if the results are similar.
     
  10. Barry Bingham

    Barry Bingham
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    So it affects at least one Loewe and at least one Panasonic and possibly one JVC. This is beginning to look like a real Tosh 330 issue... anyone else? Anyone get this issue with the older 220 model? I aim to try a friend's 220 with my set in the next week or so. If that's OK (as I suspect it will be from what I saw with an Aventos & 220), I reckon Tosh should address what would amount to a fault on the 330. I know there's a workaround but its a pain having to do it every time you power down - or as I recently noted - even when you simply stop the disc once because you want to break for a while. Anything which returns the player to the grey screen or screensaver requires the workaround. Its a real irritant.The more evidence from 330 owners the better.....


    Sam

    I use the QED AV29 SQART, available at various outlets but the cheapest I've seen is £47.50 from www.hifi4less.com The AV29 has 6 phonos: Yr, Yg , & Yb component, composite sync, and left & right audio. It's no good using an ordinary scart to phono cable as these are generally only for audio and composite video. I recall seeing a couple of other (picture-only) scart-component cables for slightly less money, but one of these was three phonos only meaning you don't get widescreen switching.

    I don't connect up the two audio plugs on the AV29 as I route sound out of the 330 to my receiver via the optical digital feed.

    You need to reintroduce your DVD deck to the Loewe in the AV connections menu and select component out with sync on Y. You can choose sync on composite (CVBS) if you want but IME it's not as good.
     
  11. Barry Bingham

    Barry Bingham
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    Well I've established that this behaviour is specific to the 330. I've now had the opportunity to test a friend's Tosh 220 hooked up to my Loewe. The older machine works perfectly, on both component and RGB: no signal loss, no crushed black level, no need to cycle through the EPM options to get proper black level in normal mode.

    The Tosh helpline suggested that my 330 may be part of a faulty batch with Amazon.. or a by-product of the multi-region hack. I was offered (by Toshiba) the chance of a replacement region 2 only 330. Amazon have offered me my money back. I think I'll be taking the money and buying something else... maybe the Panny S75 or the new Denon DVD700.

    Any Tosh 330 owners who use "normal" EPM and think their DVD picture is a tad flat: pleae note this thread.
     
  12. Darth_Fisto

    Darth_Fisto
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    I have done a bit of fiddling about with the S-Video, and I have got a much better picture than before. It is, to my eye, just as good as RGB but with the correct colours (they were a bit too dull on my JVC TV).

    Now, I don't know why, but pressing the EPM button makes buggar all difference now, which is great.

    At last I'm 100% happy that I made the right choice in buying the SD330 :smashin:

    A couple of my mates should be getting their players this or next week, so I'll let you know of any similar problems to what has been discussed here.
     
  13. Barry Bingham

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    DF, I'm glad you're happy with the s-video picture. I tried s-video on the Loewe and also found that it did not suffer from the signal loss or obvious loss of black level.

    The picture was quite impressive: but, on the Loewe, simply not as good as via component after cycling through the EPM settings. However I agree that if it was a choice between the RGB output (which IMHO could be better even after working round the "quirk") and S-Video it's a pretty close call.

    I think the Tosh is in many ways a really good player - especially at £79 (or now £69 from Richer Sounds!!). And but for this glitch would be a great player. Which, perhaps, most of them are... But if you want it for component out or RGB the glitch on the batch/hack from which both my players hailed is more than enough to make you look elsewhere....
     
  14. Darth_Fisto

    Darth_Fisto
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    I understand your disappointment as you don't want any faults in a brand new player, no matter how cheap it was.

    I can't understand what happened with my player. There was definitely something happening with the EPM button on RGB, but on S-Video it isn't there.

    Not complaining though ;)
     
  15. BigGEORDIE

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