Has anyone tested the Tosh XS32 and the Pioneer 420/520 first hand?
I'd like to know what quality differences there are.
I'd like to know what quality differences there are.
Not quite true.Lyricman said:but with a poor manual and I can see you will end up with poorer copies if you don't set everything correctly.
Could you be more specific onnunew33 said:I have used BulkPaq -r Orange (1coaster but It was user error not machine in that it is possible to burn more than a disc can hold and it simply ran out of disc space), Ritek A grade and bulkpaq -RW that simply dont work. However I use a RAM disk to copy stuff to PC and use the -RW for menu prototyping before I make a permanant burn.
havent used infiniti
I think you did say something like this when you first got the machine,nunew33 said:Sorry Ritek A grade and bulkpack orange -Rs oth work.
The bulkpaq -RW blue doesnt. assumed it would work on a X 1 and it doesnt
jdarushall said:Bulpaq Blues (X1) don't work on anything.QUOTE]
Not quite true!!!
I created some mpegs from quicktime movies (movie trailers).
then I used tmpgenc movie author to create a DVD.
used the -RW using a tosh PC dvd burner (RAM -RW and -R) to proto type menus. tested the output on the RDXS32 which read it fine, simply couldnt write to it.
Sony 735 couldnt read them though!
Whatever HDD/DVDR you go for you'll be using DVD-R for virtually everything. You may also find an extensive use for DVD-RW Video Mode. However your use of re-writeable media in the VR format is going to be limited (as you have the HDD) - it's just going to be HDD overflow. They both work the same so whether you have DVD-RAM or DVD-RW (VR) recording doesn't really matter from a functional point of view.Also the cost of -R and -RW are a tenth of the cost of DVD Ram
Just to point out that defect management does nothing for long-term storage. A problem in the phase change material or disc structure happening during storage is going to happen regardless, as if the disc isn't being used it isn't being managed.A well-cared for DVD-RAM will last considerably longer due to the defect management.
Obviously if a disk, of whatever type, has degraded to such an extent that it is totally unreable then the best defect management in the world isn't going to help (that is where the phyiscial structure of a DVD-RAM comes to play). But the defect management system does have a limited role in preventing lost data after long term storage.Just to point out that defect management does nothing for long-term storage. A problem in the phase change material or disc structure happening during storage is going to happen regardless, as if the disc isn't being used it isn't being managed.
Exactly, "assist with moving any readable corrupted data!" The point I was making, which did not need a war and peace reply, (lol) was that defect management does not help the retrieval of data. You could argue that the last thing you would want happening on media that had been archived for many years is for the recorder to get clever and start moving things about, if the media has degraded then the last thing that should be happening to it is the writer re-writing data. Surely the most important point of archived media is to retrieve the data, the ability to write back isn't.Secondary Defect List that should assist with moving any readable corrupted data.
And the point I was making that it does. As you are doubtless aware DVD data can be readable but still corrupted: if you doubt that just look at a 'failed' DVD-R which will play in a DVD player but, when you attempt to extract the contents, it will fail with a cycle redundancy error. This is invariably what happens when dealing with 'decaying' disks and is certainly the position I have found myself in a few times. The Secondary Defect Management of DVD-RAM can, in somecases, prevent these cycle errors by moving the data. That is where it assists with long term storage. Even if the benefit is occasional and limited there is still a benefit. A DVD-RW will not do this unless it has suitable software support (i.e. on a PC).The point I was making, which did not need a war and peace reply, (lol) was that defect management does not help the retrieval of data.
Defect management is integral to the drives used by the major players: perhaps the Pioneer report is refering to some of the cheaper Japanese brands but the JVC, Panasonic, Samsung and Toshiba ranges use Hitachi/Panasonic sourced drives using Firmware that doesn't allow defect management to be disabled. You can verify this (e.g.) on the Panasonic HS2 by going to ????? and you will see the same Firmware is used as in the DF310. Fruther proof is to check the read times: the Panasonic HS2 is the perfect example as this uses the DF310 drive. It's read/write times are identical to the second with that of the PC DF310 drive because both use defect management (in a hacked non-defect management system read/write times are significantly faster).Of course ironically where video recording is concerned, and I have mentioned this before that DVD-RAM behaves much more like DVD-RW on set-top recorders than you would admit to, "the major functions of defect management, which are verify after write and replacement data to Spare Area, have been typically switched off during real-time streaming operations (e.g., video recording using the VR format).
You are still talking about defect management moving data after it has been read. In order for defect management to move it, the drive has to be able to read it and apply error correction, defect management does not help with reading data, only with moving it somewhere else provided it can be read correctly. When archiving the concern is on reading data several years later, defect management doesnt help with reading, only moving the data somewhere after it has been read and error corrected successfully.prevent these cycle errors by moving the data.
Who is talking about defect management helping life span here? DVD-RAM uses several methods of increasing its rewrite lifespan. The main elements are extra layers to protect the phase-change material, the phase-change material itself, and the ability to slide writing positions forward or backward so as to avoid wearing out the same area of phase-change material.And in addition without defect management a DVD-RAMs lifespan is not anywhere near 100,000 re-writes: but it is well accepted (and confirmed by Panasonic) that their set-top units ARE indeed capable of this (as explained on Panasonic.com for example).
No of course not - disk structure helps. But the dye in DVD-RAM decays equally as well as ANY optical media - the extra layers of material in a DVD-RAM has significant there but also the defect management. There is no way a DVD-RAM will last 100,00 re-writes without it.Defect management helps of course, but isnt the sole thing responsible for increasing DVD-RAMs rewrite cycle lifetime.
That is quite simple to answer: on the one hand each read/write process (record or play) rises to a maximum of 10.8MBits/S (including control information) creating a maximum of 21.6MBits/S on DVD-RAM which is 0.4MBits/S below the maximum which would be more than ample for defect management. And secondly defect management is a internal drive process done quite independantly from the core speed of the drive. The quickest link to something that can prove that is this badly translated (babelfish) comment - I'll see if I can dig up something better later.I would like to know how that is possible without having buffer-under runs (playback stutters) or buffer-overflows (the video is recorded with what amounts to dropped frames) with a DVD-RAM disc supporting 22Mbits/sec, which is the raw write rate, but with write/verify (i.e. defect management turned on) is equivalent to only 11Mbits/sec writing.
You are wrong. If defect management is on and requires a write and verify, 22Mbits/sec is not enough for real-time operation when time-slip is being used, it is simple to see this.That is quite simple to answer: on the one hand each read/write process (record or play) rises to a maximum of 10.8MBits/S (including control information) creating a maximum of 21.6MBits/S on DVD-RAM which is 0.4MBits/S below the maximum which would be more than ample for defect management.
Actually I am right. I assume you decided to entirely ignore this article I quoted which confirms what I'm saying about the defect management being seperate to the drive speed specifications?You are wrong
I'm not going to dignify that with an answer - I'll just let the hundreds of people I have provided advice and assistance to on this board be the judge of whether I know my stuff or not...Obviously you have never had to deal with real-time systems before