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Tosh Picture Frame - Problems Solved???

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by stephenc, Jul 24, 2002.

  1. stephenc

    stephenc
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    I'm thinking of getting a new TV, but I don't have much room and don't like the look of most modern TV's with huge frames and speakers down the sides (I have an external amp and speakers).

    The best looking TV in my budget is the Tosh 32/36" picture frames, however, I've read most of the stuff on here and wonder whether it is worth the hassle.

    Has Toshiba managed to update the firmware and get rid of any of the bugs, is the picture quality of these TV's now excellent or still hitty/missy depending upon the set?

    Does anyone know if Toshiba is planning to use the the same housing again but with an updated tube?

    Look forward to hearing from you all,

    SJC
     
  2. normski

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    like your self i think the tosh is a good looking set but unfortunately as far as i know their is no fix for the current problems i currently have the q model which tosh have removed some of the features this would have been ok if they had resolved some of the picture faults i have decided to send the set back and try the 36 inch philips the worst thing for me with the tosh was the lighter sides i could live with the other niggly things but the sole purpose of this telly is to reproduce a colour picture it fails to do this big time if on the other hand most of your viewing is brightly lit programms and no dark scenes then its is fine, maybe the should put in their sales info the picture frame tv that you cannot use to view dark movies

    i hope i have more luck with the philips judging by this forum it seems to have problems too if this telly is no good i will go back to my 25inch 13 year old panny which has a far better pic than any of the new ones i have tried and save up a bit more cash and get a plasma prices are coming down

    normski
     
  3. Delius

    Delius
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    There are no plans to put a different CRT in the 32/36ZP18 Q/P in the near future.

    The "p" has media Window where the Q has Sub page select and Mix mode.

    The "p" remote will not work the menus correctly on the "q"

    There are no Software problems with these.

    In principle the Q and P are the same appart from operational changes to Text and menu control

    Delius
     
  4. jasonlgriffin

    jasonlgriffin
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    I had a P then a Q. I found the brightness flicker (slightly better on the Q than the P) the most annoying thing followed by the speaker hum during high contrast scenes. Never really found the brighter sides a real issue. Dirty screen effect was a bit annoying but even my new Loewe suffers from this to some extent - believe this is the digital processing rather than the tube.

    Both P and Q had a problem where some DVDs (America Pie R2)looked awful - it tends to go into a "funny" scan mode when first selecting an AV input - I could get around this by going into the menu and changing the scan mode to the other setting then back again. This looked like a S/W bug that never got found and was the last straw for me.

    I would like to know whether Tosh have fixed some of these issues in the new Strata range of TVs - they probably have the same tube so those problems won't disappear but others may be fixed.
     
  5. stephenc

    stephenc
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    sounds like I'm back to square one with buying a new TV then. Looks like I'll be sticking to my 5 yr old 28" 4:3 Tosh for some time yet then.

    I would like to go plasma, as all my inputs are digitil, but I just cannot afford £4-5K on a TV.

    Ah well, I'm keep waiting for a set where the manufactures get the damn thing right internally, and it also looks good.

    SJC
     
  6. Delius

    Delius
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    The problem that you see with flicker... do you mean Black stretch or slight changes when you pause a DVD or other input ??
    Also the Buzz you say you had was it coming from the speakers or the TV ?? Was it on all sound modes??

    If you turn off the internal speakers did it still come from the TV??

    The DVD problem that you say shows when you first turn on the TV set does it look like Line Jitter???Was the TV set forced to AV with a voltage to Pin 8 whilst coming on???

    There was a very slight change made between the P and Q in software, But this was only VERY slight..do you have the serial number of your "p" set ???


    Delius
     
  7. jasonlgriffin

    jasonlgriffin
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    The flicker was on certain scenese only and occurred when the DVD was paused as well. It stopped when freeze frame was used on the TV remote. I believe this is a known problem with Toshiba's upconverter or something like that where it can't decide between two values so just sits there an oscillates between then. Freeze frame is applied after the processing so physically "freezes" the picture.

    The hum occured even with the Volume set to 1. With it set to 0 or with mute on the majority of the hum disappeared (I think this hum is due to the power supply causing noise on the audio) but there was still some hum on very high contrast scenes (I put this hum down to the scan coils resonating).

    Not sure about the "60 Hz problem" - it was definitely happening on R2 (PAL 50Hz) DVDs. Movement was very very jerky and you could see the difference when toggling the scan mode. The failure mode is pretty well documented at (along with the other faults) http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30550&perpage=15&highlight=zp18&pagenumber=9.

    I've got the serial and batch numbers for both sets at home - if I remember I'll post them tomorrow.

    Do you work for Toshiba or something?
     
  8. Delius

    Delius
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    You are correct about about the Upconverter, a change of a data helped reduce the problem of black hunt at certain levels.

    When the problem occurs on R2 does it look like you are loosing each alternate field?

    As for your last question...
     
  9. ssharkey63

    ssharkey63
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    The problems with the "dirty screen" are well documented in this forum, so I won't labour the point again.

    However - any fresh views on the cause would be welcome.
     
  10. jasonlgriffin

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    Delius

    Not sure whether I waslosing alternate fields but this could well have been the problem as the movement was very jerkey and from what I remember the scan lines became more apparent during the movement when in this "funny" mode. As I say making a change to the scan option in the menu fixes the problem, but it comes back every time you change channel then return to the same AV input. To me this seems like it could be fixed in S/W (whenever a an AV input is selected by the user the scan mode is quickly reselected automatically which should mean the problem doesn't occur).

    I no longer have the set but I may go back to Powerhouse at the weekend and try the test on the 32ZD26P they have to see how the new TVs fair in this respect.

    Perhaps you should get onto your S/W guys at Tosh and get them to investigate for us :D
     
  11. jasonlgriffin

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    Delius

    Here's my serial numbers you asked for...

    32ZP18P(B): S/N:42181057 (Batch J646325)
    32ZP18Q(B): S/N:84172267 (Batch J648508)
     
  12. Delius

    Delius
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    Thanks,

    Ill have a look into it.

    Delius
     
  13. stranger

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    Delius, is the humming from the back of the set harmless although annoying? thanks.
     
  14. Delius

    Delius
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    Hi again


    First things first . . . . . .

    The buzzing from the back of the set is nothing to worry about, its the scan coils and 2 other smaller coils on the CRT which cause the Buzz.

    Sometimes it sounds louder than normal when the TV set is used in a room with wooden floors, etc...

    Right onto the "funny scan mode" . . .

    Inorder of Manufacture >

    I checked a 32ZP18 P which I have and couldnt get it to fault. I tried forced Scart switching, switching from Off air to EXT inputs etc...

    Mine was built Early 2001 and yours were built 8 months and 10 months from when mine was built.

    I shall try another set...has anyone seen it on a projection set ??

    Delius
     
  15. jasonlgriffin

    jasonlgriffin
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    Delius

    Which DVD did you try? American Pie R2 works - Chapter 2 after title comes up the camera pans from showing the name of the school to pass over some grass and out to a path where two guys are walking chatting. Basically the pan is terrible in the "funny" mode and the two Os in "schOOl" look like they are part of the Olympic rings. If you replay the same scene having done the menu change, movement is much nicer (doesn't matter whether its 100Hz or Natural). I couldn't get many other DVDs to show this up but maybe if you pick scenes with big pans. I must admit I don't think the transfer quality is very good on the AP DVD anyway.

    My P and Q suffered and so did the model in the shop (an old P I would guess) when I tried it there so it's not just me and my player! Played the same DVD on a Loewe Xemix player into a Loewe Aconda and Vitros TV and it is fine - same from my Tosh 510 through my Loewe Vitros.

    Try the AP DVD for a sure fire test!
     
  16. jasonlgriffin

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    BTW I tried SCART auto-switch on and off, RGB, S-Video and composite as well as component connections and they all suffered the same!
     
  17. stranger

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    thanks Delius, I like my set (36ZP18P) apart from the buzz which I'm not bothered about now, the only problems are a slight uptilt in last 3inches left h/side and a downbend in top middle noticeable mostly when using text. I've improved most things using service menu but can't fix these last-are they adjustable in "D" menu? appreciate youre help.
     
  18. Delius

    Delius
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    I shall rent it from the local shop...

    I think the " O O" will block into each other...em... I have an idea what it might be....

    Where are u btw ??

    Delius
     
  19. Delius

    Delius
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    You have what is known as Droop...

    Im sorry but there are no adjustments which can remove that in the D menu.

    If anyone does get into that menu BE CAREFUL you can end up with a none working set..!!!!! Some of the settings in there will cause the unit to not come on once it goes into standby!!!

    Delius

    Please dont ask how to get into it....if you find out fair enough but Im not gonna tell you ! Sorry!!
     
  20. jasonlgriffin

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    Delius

    Not sure if you were asking me or stranger but I'm in Chippenham, Wiltshire.

    The OO do blend/blur a bit even when the scan mode is working but in the "funny" mode they basically interconnect big time (as I said like the Olympic rings). If you know what it might be, do you also know if it might be in the new Strata TVs? :D

    BTW you mentioned about the dodgy upconverter and that there were some tweaks that could improve it. If you refer to the BS settings in the D menu then I tried those and they didn't really make any difference. Do you know if the same upconverter is used in the new Strata TVs or whether they have fixed this problem?

    Cheers mate
     
  21. stranger

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    Delius, that's why I asked first-thanks for your advice-bet you feel like a guy who's just let slip he's a doctor in a pub.:)

    Hope by droop you did mean the T.V.:rolleyes:
     
  22. stranger

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    don't give up on the tosh-apart from small niggles mentioned I find the picture great with analogue-excellent with digital and superb with dvd, it's even very good with my home recorded tapes blown up to fill the screen. and imo it's still the best looking large screen crt on the market.
     
  23. Delius

    Delius
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    Hi all,

    The new strata range had a different upconverter so you shouldnt get the same effect...

    Its not the BS which improved the sampling level.. its another setting ..

    Im still looking into the " o o " problem...

    I got a simiar effect on my 42wh18 with fast moving graphics..Same converter

    Delius
     
  24. ssharkey63

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    Delius,

    Number 1
    Do you have any view on the much reported "dirty screen" effect that is present on the ZP18 range.
    It is particularly apparent with panning shots across light coloured backgrounds i.e. sky.

    It's a little like having a net curtain in front of the picture ..


    Number 2
    Another problem I have is with "bright image persistence". Bright objects can remain on screen for a split second after a scene change, or bright objects can leave a "trail" when the move quickly across a dark background.

    Your views on likely causes for the above would be gratefully received ...

    Thanks,
     
  25. jasonlgriffin

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    ssharkey63

    Sorry to butt in but my 2p worth

    1) Seems to be a side effect of the digital processing (not the tube) and is worse for poorer quality signals (I get it on my Loewe sometimes). Other than that the 100Hz processing seems very good on the Tosh's

    2) I thought the same about image persistence on my old Tosh but it is pretty much the same on my Loewe (Philips tube). Probably (?) a problem with all 100Hz TVs due to twice the energy hitting the phosphurs in the same time causing over persistence.

    Delius

    Any luck with the funny scan mode on the ZP18s - do you think this is down to the upconverter again and hence is fixed on the Strata range (could not get it to fault on a ZD26 and couldn't see flicker either)?
     
  26. Delius

    Delius
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    Hi

    Sorry ive been a while..ive been on Holiday!!

    1. The delayed image for a second or 2.. have you got noise reduction turned on ?? It causes a ghost the same as the DNR system which Philips Use (Watch snooker.. Red balls will have a tail after them with noise reduction on, after they have been hit!!!)

    And Jason is correct with what he said about the phosphurs which are lit after being hit with electrons. Try it with a high brightness torch .. turn off the lights in the roomso its Dark (At night is best ) Shine the torch on the CRT , the closer the better then when u turn the torch off the CRT might be slightly glowing..you may have to look away from the CRT as the bright light from the torch my blind u from seeing the effect!!!

    2. The Darker/lighter, Or dirty areas are due to the CRT. Its within the design of the CRT. There is nothing you can do to remove the dark areas, some CRTs might be better than others but there is nothing u can do.

    SORRY GUYS

    As for the Upconverters(ZP18).. it looks like its the software which the micro is running to control the Converter and memory storage.. I have yet to find out why.... The New Progressive range has different software and memory storage so its not going to be a problem which u get....I hope.!!!

    Delius
     
  27. filopastry25

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    Delius, can you briefly explain something to me, it sounds as if toshiba is fully aware of the issues with the 36zp18p, but any time I ring the technical helpdesk they invariably say they've never heard of any of these problems and I need to speak to my dealer.

    It gets a bit frustrating after a while!!!;)
     
  28. Shaunhw

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    I had a "P" version 36" Tosh which unfortunately was marred with unacceptable convergence errors. The dealer replaced it with a "Q" verison, which apart from the teletext "mix" mode change, seems entirely satisfactory..... At least from a reasonable viewing distance. I think if you are sat a couple of foot away you may notice some slight abberations.... But I could spot them on my old Sony KVX29-12U and this receiver is FAR superior to that. I don't know what faults people are experiencing but I do think this set is quite hard to fault. There are faults with it, such as not being able to program a channel button to accept AV inputs, but perfomance wise I don't have much of a complaint.... Sometimes horizontally scrolling text looks a bit odd, but not as bad as some 100HZ sets I've seen..
     

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