1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

"Top three" and true HDTV?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by CraigHolt, Jun 13, 2005.

  1. CraigHolt

    CraigHolt
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Ok, so I have done a little research (as I am a complete Home cinema novice!) and am (predictably) coming down in favour of going for either the Hitachi 42pd7200, "Panny PV500" as it seems to be affectionately known, or the Pioneer 435 XDE.
    All are said to be HD ready. However, the resolutions are 1024 x 1024, 1024 x 768 and 1024 x 768 (I think) respectively. As I understood it, to be truly HD and not to require scaling down the resolution has to be greater than 1280 x 720 (for 720 HD) or 1920 x 1080 (1080 HD).
    Does that mean these screens will not produce proper HDtv or will the difference due to the scaling be unnoticeable? And (really stupid question probably) is 1024 x 1024 better than 1024 x 768 or is there no discernible difference?
    Would ppl suggest I go for one of these three now, or wait a couple of months - in other words is anything major and in the similar £2000-2500 price bracket - due for release? Finally am I defeating the object if I hook one of these screens up with a relatively cheap DVD player? What is the minimum spec on a DVD player I should be looking for in order to get my money's worth from my screen?
    Thanks in advance for any help you can give me!!
    Craig
     
  2. CraigHolt

    CraigHolt
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    OK, so maybe I asked too many questions in one post there to encourage anyone to reply - ignore the latter questions then, please just help me with the hdtv resolution issue - is it right that these screens will not produce true HDtv?
     
  3. andypearce

    andypearce
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    299
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    wales
    Ratings:
    +8
    I don't know the technical answer to your question but I can tell you the 'HD' pictures I saw on the 37" PV500 at weekend were truly stunning. The jump in quality is massive and if it's not true HiDef it's still certainly good enough for me.
     
  4. CraigHolt

    CraigHolt
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Where did you see them? Does anyone know anywhere near Leicester that has a HD demo on the panasonic?
     
  5. Jazz Monkey Jr

    Jazz Monkey Jr
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,821
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    137
    Location:
    Garstang, Lancs
    Ratings:
    +1,525
  6. CraigHolt

    CraigHolt
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks. I've only lived here for a few weeks so still finding my way around! I'm going to head down later and have a look at one. Would still be interested to know the answer to my question about HDtv versus 1024 x 768 resolution if anyone can help?
     
  7. Da_Rude_Baboon

    Da_Rude_Baboon
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    492
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +55
    Ok i'm no expert and only just understand it myself but here goes. ;)

    True HD does, as you say, need a resoloution of 1280x720 for 1:1 pixel mapping (i.e. no scaling) but this is not possible with current plasma technology. The EICTA standard for HD (which if a device meets allows the manufacturer to display a HD ready sticker on their product) says a device must be able to display 720 lines of vertical resoloution and be fitted with an HDMI socket with HDCP.

    All the plasmas you mentioned meet that spec albeit with some scaling. The plasmas have to scale most signals they recieve to display them properly. This means (arguably) that you dont need to spend a fortune on a DVD player as you would need to buy quite an expensive one before it scales better than a £2.5k plasma.
     
  8. DJT75

    DJT75
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2005
    Messages:
    9,148
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +2,210
    Just a little FYI: Although freeview/Sky pictures don't compare, I saw the Panny PV500 (Plasma) & the Sharp 37GDIE (LCD) both 37", both linked up to the same HD Demo - the LCD kicked arse. However, the Panny was better for everything else.....
     
  9. CraigHolt

    CraigHolt
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks for the replies guys.
    So how does the scaling effect the picture quality? Is "scaled" HD on one of these screens noticeably different to "true" HD?
     
  10. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,293
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    well there are no 42" with 1280x720 res to compare too....................50" at 1366x768 or 1280x768 are the best bet for HD caling but scaling will always occur with a fixed pixel device (either on board or of board) so good scaling is perhaps more important than no scaling...... (1080i signals and SD material etc or dont you plan to watch DVD's???)
     
  11. CraigHolt

    CraigHolt
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Horny - Yes, I plan to use the screen for sky and dvds mainly. So would the Pan PV500 be good enough for HDtv to look as good as it is meant to or would I be better waiting a while for something else? i.e. do the Pv500 (and the other screens) have "good scaling" abilities as you call it?
     
  12. maltese

    maltese
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi Craig, as a general rule, you have to pay much more attention to the vertical resolution (lines) than to the horizontal (columns), as human eye is able to notice much more detail in the first one than in the second one.

    As far as I know, the Hitachi uses a technology called "ALiS" (stands for Alternative Lighting Surfaces) whose is defined to use two sets of 512 horizontal lines lighting alternatively 50 times per second (odd lines and even lines). In practice, this means that the Hitachi works in a different way depending on the input signal. Sometimes it displays a 1024x512 image doubling the lines, which will give you a better picture quality than a 852x480 plasma TV while other times it displays a 1024x1024 interlaced image (well, not really interlaced as each set of 512 lines is lighted as a whole).

    Like all things in life, it has its advantages and disadvantages, but regarding resolution issues you should be aware of the folowing:

    HDTV 720p:
    - The Hitachi will downscale the 720 lines to 512 lines so you will lose much detail. At least, that's what happens with the previous model, 42PD5200. As far as I know, this fact is the same with the new one, but I must admit that I have not confirm it.

    - The HD Panny will display the 720 lines so this one is much better for this kind of signal

    HDTV 1080i:
    - The Hitachi will display 1024 lines, so little cropping happens (the 28 top lines and the 28 bottom lines), but in fact this technology is intended to be almost perfect with this kind of input signal, because it is also interlaced so no digital processing to adapt the signal is needed (just the crop) and it can display the signal directly.

    - The Panny will downscale the 1080 lines to 768 so you will lose much detail.

    So the decision will depend on the kind of HDTV signal you think will be the most usual, but both Plasmas are very good and future proof. Resolution is only one of the things you have to consider.

    Hope this helps

    -m
     
  13. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    13,980
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,781
    The 1080i signal is 540 lines per field. The Panasonic will upscale them to 768 not downscale. The Hitatchi will display them with lines cropped per field. Neither unit is capable of recognising if the material in the 1080i signal is originally recorded progressively and then reconstituting the original full 1080p frame for downscaling to the panels resolution.

    Which technology or pixel count is best is dependant on implimentation. Unfortunately the best solution is to go view them with the source material you want to watch. There are new XDE's coming but not until September I think.

    As has been said....720 lines or more will get you a nice HD image. You don't need exact 1280x720res.....or 1920 x1080. There is more to good image quality than amount of pixels

    Gordon
     
  14. maltese

    maltese
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thank you Gordon. As a professional I guess you are right, but what you said is even confusing me more, because the 1080i signal is, of course, 540 lines per field, but both fields are not filled with the same information, so if the Panasonic "upscale" just one field is in fact losing much more detail by first taking away a whole field.

    is that right?

    -m
     
  15. maltese

    maltese
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    by the way, Gordon, how does the hitachi 1024x1024 and the Panasonic 1024x768 display a 576p DVD image?

    Will the Hitachi downscale to 512 lines and double them? Will the Panasonic upscale to 768 lines by "repeating" half of the lines?
     

Share This Page

Loading...