Tom Cruise says turn off motion smoothing for films?

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by Essoman, Dec 5, 2018 at 7:39 AM.


    1. Essoman

      Essoman
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    2. Phil Hinton

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      True Cinema on a Sony TV is fine as that is a pulldown technique to show 24fps without any interpolation. I am assuming that is what you meant? I've added the news story to your post and in the tabs above and below.
       
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    3. c__w

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      I think directors are largely stuck with 24fps as that has been the industry standard for decades, chosen because of technical limitations and film size at the time rather than some big coincidence it gives the natural look they want (24fps is far from natural). Personally I find cinema a pretty disappointing experience now; blurry, judder/shimmer and poor blacks and that was IMAX! And that's before the annoying fool behind me tapping the back of my chair. Is that what the director intended? :D

      I appreciate the artistic intent and the cinematic look 24p can give, but I also don't think it's the only way a film can be watched. Sometimes films look like stop-start animation to me and I find it very annoying. Depends on the film though. Sony's TrueCinema and Samsung's ClearMotion BFI can look good but I can't watch every film like that.

      If TVs can all do 24p correctly, what's the problem? Doing this might only push TV manufacturers to think about giving less design time to implement good FI which only gives less options for consumers that want/rely on it for acceptable viewing. Next Ed Sheeran will be telling people there is only one way to listen to his music and you have too much bass set on your equaliser.
       
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      Last edited: Dec 5, 2018 at 10:41 AM
    4. dollag

      dollag
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      Ed is not in a position to tell you how to listen to his music considering how badly mastered they are :nono:
       
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    5. c__w

      c__w
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      Haha I agree, I was trying to think of a prolific artist for comparison.
       
    6. SunnyIntervals

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      I'd love to see a two tier settings menu; one which simply allows the viewer to choose tv, movie, sport, etc and has presets to best support that content. Then, for those of us that like to get their hands dirty, an Advanced settings where everything can be tinkered with; even the presets.

      Other than for shops, why is Vivid even available to home users? This should be disabled as soon as you set up the tv and select "home" as the place it's being used!!

      I support this attempt by Cruise to get people to at least check their settings though.
       
    7. Tim2049

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      Nah, I love the soap opera effect. That may make me a philistine to some, but I love smooth motion, however 'incorrect' that may be. Apart from making pans buttery smooth, I also find that it enhances the depth of field. To my eyes anyway. Almost like a 3D effect if you will.

      Besides, if I took advice from Tom Cruise I'd have to empty my medicine cabinet and start idololising crooked sci-fi authors. So, 'pinch of salt'...
       
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    8. S Helton

      S Helton
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      I'm just off to post a video on Twitter asking Tom and Christopher to apply a consistent image to their 4K release of Fallout, rather than a mix of grainy widescreen and demo quality IMAX.
       
    9. Phil Hinton

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      The thing is though, your buttery smooth image is not telling you the whole story or what was intended to be seen. The best example I have seen of this are the Star Trek bridge scenes where the camera and set are moving to show impacts and the crew falling around, but with FI on everything is buttery smooth and destroys the entire scene. Plus FI is creating things that don't exist or taking away items that do, such as footballs or golf balls in sports suddenly disappearing.

      It works for some fast-moving video content, like sports, but films are designed to be seen at 24fps for a reason and if you want to see the whole picture and get the emotion the filmmaker is trying to impart, it has to be in 24fps. The Hobbit tried and failed with higher frame rates because it looked odd and fake, you get motion blur in the real world and remove it from films you create an unreal, video-like image. I can tell straight away as soon as FI is on, even slightly as I am so used to low frame rate movies as they are intended to be seen.

      There is a place for high frame rates and that is with sports, news, gaming and so on where it makes a noticeable difference to the quality and gives you the action as expected. Movies and storytelling just don't work like that.

      At the end of the day, there is a choice and it is up to you what mode you use, but what we have said for years is if you have a cinema mode, it has to have FI switched off and attempt to get close to the standards, so you can see it as intended.

      AVForums will always back the creator's intent for film and dramas.
       
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    10. raduv1

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      Is this official Scientology doctrine or is Tom breaking ranks here with this ;) :D.
       
    11. Jules

      Jules
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      Some films show unnatural jerky motion at 24fps because the director intended it to be that way.
      Its not that 24fps isn't enough, its because they either shot the scene with a 90 degree (or less) shutter angle, or deliberately dropped frames to give it that 'edge of your seat' feel.

      24fps is enough for perfectly smooth motion, its just that some people find films like Saving Private Ryan uncomfortable to watch.
      Switching on motion interpolation can relieve the discomfort, but totally changes the mood and feel of the film.

      For those that leave Motion interpolation turned on, I'd say don't blame 24fps for lack of smoothness.

      For those who want to beat the 'as the director intended' drum, I'd say keep educating people, but appreciate that some may find certain scenes uncomfortable to watch without it.

      There, that's me sitting on the fence again! :)
       
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    12. aliman5000

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      I was going to post about this myself!

      There is a very fine line between motion judder and the soap opera effect. I don't like either so have spent a lot of time finding the best middle ground!

      I absolutely agree with wanting to watch a film that looks like a film, but you CANNOT tell me a film maker wanted you to experience a panning shot bouncing/flickering left to right?! :laugh: as much as they don't want you to see it like a soap opera either.

      I find a juddering shot so horrible to watch and there is no way anyone can accept this as 'normal'. A great example is anything shot in space where the perspective is from the craft and they are travelling around a planet like Earth. If you were actually sat in this ship and observing the planet, it would be smoothly sailing past the window - it is what would happen in reality as well as what you would see with your eyes. The spaceship would not be jumping forward every two seconds, stopping and then jumping forward again in quick succession, and the planet wouldn't be doing that either!

      Another example is the sun rising or setting, when you watch this in reality it isn't moving then stopping then moving then stopping is it? No, it is a smooth transition. A film maker, viewer or anyone else for that matter can't state that an accurate vision of the World is one where everything that moves, judders. Because it doesn't and therefore I don't want to see judder when I watch a film.
       
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    13. Andrew1472

      Andrew1472
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      I fall perfectly into the ‘makes me uncomfortable’ category. I’m well aware that a lot of movies look absolutely fine with no interpolation, but then I get hit with one that doesn’t and it looks awful to me.
      I would agree that maximum interpolation options, such as smooth, tend to be much too smooth, but with the advent of user customised settings that need no longer be a problem.
      I have different presets set up identically, one with interpolation set to the lowest possible judder reduction that is comfortable and is not buttery smooth, the other with it off, so that I can easily switch. In reality though, what I do 99% of the time is stick with the low judder reduction setting as I have no idea ahead of time whether a movie is going to be problematic or not.
      I’m also not pretending that interpolation is perfect. The drone disappearing in Interstellar is one side effect that comes to mind, as well as footballs and golf balls disappearing as @Phil Hinton so rightly says. Deblur is the culprit with sport, so that’s always at zero.
      Every time I see one of these articles I think how nice it would be if I could acclimatise to it, so I end up trying interpolation off for everything and always switch it back on. I have no doubt I will be doing the same thing again tonight.
       
    14. Tim2049

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      Sounds like a fair stance and an educated rationale, absolutely. I understand the theory, but in practice the 'judder' takes me out of the moment. I've seen some of the artifacting that the SOE can cause and there's no way I could live with that either. On my Sony I feel I've found a pretty perfect balance for me.

      As an aside, I know that Christopher Nolan is quite vocal about this subject. Yet, I've seen the majority of his - personally supervised - 4k releases and, by and large, they're far from reference quality. In fact, they frequently look subpar I'd argue. Likewise, his treatment of Kubrick's 2001 was anything but 'perfect'. I appreciate I'm digressing a little here, but it perhaps highlights that the 'correct' way of showing films still comes down to a certain amount of subjectivity.

      I respect the fact that AV Forums follows the 'industry standard' though, absolutely. I'll certainly try turning off all the interpolation stuff for my next 4k viewing to give it a go. I suspect it'll be too jarring now, but I'll certainly try it out...

      Thank you for your response. It's certainly an interesting subject/debate...
       
    15. stevebk

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      The other day I went and watched the new Fantastic Beasts film at the IMAX, and I agree with what you say regarding the quality. It made it un-watchable on such a large screen
       
    16. Hampy1972

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      So the TV upscales
      So the media player upscales
      So the streaming device upscales
      So the bluray player upscales
      So the TV box upscales...

      That's a lot upscaling..

      What I have found, default setting on everything and let the TV (which as the most powerful processing power) do the business.
       
    17. Roohster

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      In other news:
      Benedict Cumberbatch gives advice on the optimum setting for your toaster.
       
    18. Furnace Inferno

      Furnace Inferno
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      To me frame interpolation on everything doesn’t look natural 24fps or otherwise, it looks like everything is speed up, speech especially just looks completely off.
       
    19. lewisw84

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      One man's soap opera effect is another man's 24p. Just watch it how you like it and enjoy the movie :)
       
    20. mclingo

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      I find trumotion essential on my 2015 LG OLED as the response time is so quick between frames there is no blur to smooth out motion, the picture is clearer but you get smearing between frames rather than blurring which can result in jagged edges on bright areas on pans.

      applying just 3/10 on trumotion clears this up nicely with no soap opera effect and no artifacts that I can see, I simply could not live without this now for all movies.
       
    21. Nobbler

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      Your on the wrong forums buddy
       
    22. hodg100

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      In the words of L. Ron Hubbard:

      "For a Scientologist, the final test of any knowledge he has gained is, 'did the data and the use of it in life actually improve conditions or didn't it?"

      So, seems like he was into calibration.
       
    23. Nobbler

      Nobbler
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      It maybe I am...used to be you come here for advice like this and accept it.
      Now it seems it's a about who can spend the most on a TV and make it look the worst they possibly can.
       
    24. invisiblekid

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      Yes but one lot of advise is "correct".

      The other is utter hogwash.
       
    25. Morden

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      I tend to leave true cinema on and never customise that setting.
       
    26. Tim2049

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      Well, I'm sorry that my settings have upset you. I wouldn't worry about it...
       
    27. ruffian2205

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      My friends bought a new Samsung 4K tv earlier this year, just a basic model (£400) but when they invited me over for a viewing I couldn’t wait for them to go to bed so I could fiddle with the picture settings the SOE made everything look awful. It took me ages to figure out how to tone down the picture ‘enhancements’. Next time I came over everything had reverted back to original settings, though they claimed not to have changed anything. Neither of them seemed bothered by these settings so I left them to it. I just don’t suggest we watch a movie when I visit any more.
       
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    28. Furnace Inferno

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      You should be sorry, out of all the atrocities that happen on Earth the pain you just caused is by far the worst :devil:.
       
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    29. ian34g

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      As said near the top 24fps was chosen because its the slowest speed that can be used that the human eye "sees" no issue with and therefore using the minimum amount of very expensive at the time film stock. Nothing to do with how the bloody director intended it to be seen.
      If you like it fine, if you don't fine, it makes no difference as long as its what you enjoy.
      I'm getting fed up with being told how I should see or listen to media.
      Rant over, sorry.
       
      Last edited: Dec 5, 2018 at 9:54 PM
    30. Matt_C

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      I don't know anything about any of the stuff said above - all I know is the 50fps video files I have, and even a 30fps one, look way nicer than 24fps, and move much more fluidly and look much more glassy. Almost "too" real, if you will...
       

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