Toilet trouble, round two...

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Flashy, Jun 25, 2015.

  1. Flashy

    Flashy
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    Last year, the fill valve went on one of my toilets. I managed to fix it myself, thanks to some excellent help and advice from people: Plumbing problem: do it myself or get a professional? | AVForums

    After that one, the fill valves in my two other toilets went, and I replaced them both without issue. But, as was feared in last year's thread, the flush valve of at least one, possibly two, has had it as well. My eventual success with the fill valves, coupled with the knowledge that if it goes wrong I can just shut off the water to the cistern and call a professional, leads me to want to try my hand at replacing myself. Plus, a plumber doing it would be ~£90, and it'd be about a tenner for me to. If I can do it.

    The current installation is a push-button dual flush, with rods coming down from the bottom of the button. Picture here from previous thread (minus push button and rods): [​IMG]

    I've managed to clean out some gunk from where the seal stops the water going out by getting my finger in there. It's either gunk or the rubber's perished. Either way, it made no difference.

    I know I'll need to remove the cistern, but forgive my ignorance here: there's no reason why I can't install a cable version, rather than rod version, is there? I was thinking of this: Fluidmaster Dual Flush Cable Dual Flush Valve | Departments | DIY at B&Q

    Second potentially stupid question is about the holes... Presumably, the hole at the bottom and the hole in the cistern lid (for the button) are of standard size? It's a new-ish toilet, five years or so I'd guess.

    Thanks in advance, once again.

    EDIT: Just seen the size of the wrench I'll need to deal with the nut at the bottom. Enormous! And an additional cost for something I'll likely not need again. Hmm...
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2015
  2. Flashy

    Flashy
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    I wish one of the 149 viewers would have said "Don't do it, it won't be as simple as the fill valve. Just call a plumber." :)

    Two hours in and I've still got a very minor leak from the inlet pipe to the cistern. Clearly, fixing that bit before was a fluke.
     
  3. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Sorry to hear that, but it shouldn't be a complicated job, although a bit trickier than the float valve. Can you show us a picture of where the trickle is ?
     
  4. Flashy

    Flashy
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    To be fair, the actual replacing of the fill valve was easy, once I got there. Most of the time was spent cutting through silicone, as whichever clown fitted the toilet sealed the cistern to the plasterboard...

    Said clown probably did that because he'd fouled up the screw fixings. One was fine, the other was screwed into a rawlplug in the plasterboard but even that wasn't right, and was just spinning freely and not really holding anything. Think I've managed to anchor it a bit now. It all seems stable, at least.

    The problem is actually back with the float valve, or rather its connection to the mains pipe. It's not as bad as a leak, or even a trickle. But if I dab it with a bit of toilet paper after a few minutes, I get a wet spot.

    I think I've narrowed it down to two possibles – it's either just above the nut, or it's just above and just below the nut:

    IMG_0911.JPG

    I'll unscrew it (again) and see if I can get a better connection. Getting a bit tired of it all now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2015
  5. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    I would stick a saucer/pot underneath it and leave it overnight. Don't flush it, to allow the temperature to equilibrate so you don't get condensation. Then check it in the morning. Then report back. I've had "dab it damp patches" dry up :D
     
  6. Flashy

    Flashy
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    Sorry, was editing my post with pic as you replied. It's not condensation, the most recent toilet paper test yielded better results. If it actually drips it won't fall, it'll run down the pipe which eventually bends about 90 degrees, so I'll never catch it in anything or possibly even notice if it's small. Only concern is if/when pressure goes up a bit overnight it will make the tiny leak a bigger one.

    Helpfully, it's round the back, so I can't even see it.

    I'm sure when I replaced the three float valves ages ago there were these patches, and they did sort themselves out. At least the toilet flushes properly, though, that's something. :)
     
  7. Flashy

    Flashy
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    PS: Do we think the damp spot that's appeared on the kitchen ceiling right below the bathroom could be related..?

    its either been caused by the fair amount of water which escaped earlier when I had to refit the valve the first time, or it's a leak from somewhere. Any way to tell?

    Either way, it's probably time for me to admit defeat and do what I should have done in the first place: call someone who knows what they're doing.
     
  8. phillyd1981

    phillyd1981
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    Stick your kitchen washing up bowl under the inlet pipe and in the morning go and get some plumbers mait and re do the join with it the stuff is amazeballs!

    Plumber's Mait 750g | Sealers & Compounds | Screwfix.com
     
  9. Flashy

    Flashy
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    Thanks, but it's definitely beyond me now – I just slid some kitchen roll into the tiny gap between cistern and pan and it came out sodden.

    I've shut off the water to the toilet and drained the cistern. And kitchen rolled what I can. Will probably take it apart again tomorrow to mop up properly.

    I'm now scared that the patch on the ceiling is spreading. It's about two inches across and I've marked it lightly with pencil. Anything I can do about it? Or is it something that's happened and now needs to take its course? We're not talking pints or anything, but it was obviously enough to find its way through.
     
  10. phillyd1981

    phillyd1981
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    The area needs to dry out good air flow and heat are your main friends here.
     
  11. Flashy

    Flashy
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    Thanks. Thankfully, it's a warm house. Fingers crossed it's not spreading. Will call plumber in morning. Lucky there are another two toilets. The missus has been out with friends so hopefully she'll have had a couple and won't too cross when she gets back. :)
     
  12. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    But you haven't touched it yet.... :smashin:
     
  13. outoftheknow

    outoftheknow
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    Is all the water coming from the connections in your photo? Your two arrows are the top and bottom of the same connection. The white thing against the cistern should have a seal between it and the cistern. If not that will leak lots I think. The next connection with your arrows only needs thread tape or paste (as already suggested) - if the bottom of the threaded bit is flat though there should probably be a seal there. If that is the only place it is leaking I reckon you have almost nailed it :)
     
  14. Ruperts slippers

    Ruperts slippers
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    If it's the plastic nut, remove it, empty the cistern, dry it out and put some silicone on the float valve, pop it back in and retighten..

    If it's the ballafix, undo it , pop a new fibre washer on and retighten, don't cross thread it..

    If all else fails, you'll have to ring a clown(Plumber)...
     
  15. Flashy

    Flashy
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    I'm more worried about the fact it was leaking from the cistern where it meets the pan. I can't be doing with messing about with it any more, so it'll be a call to the plumber in the morning.

    Thanks for all the help, though, all. :)
     
  16. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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  17. Flashy

    Flashy
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    Plumber's coming on Thursday. The wife is thrilled as she's had enough of 'her' loo being out of commission now.

    Probably for the best – the push buttons on the other two have had it and the shower's got a bit of a leak, too, so at least I'll get the lot sorted by someone who's vaguely competent (ie, not me).

    She's actually almost excited about it, even to the point of looking for anything else she can add to the list, presumably before I spot it and 'fix' it first.
     
  18. phillyd1981

    phillyd1981
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    ;)
    Show her the bill afterwards she will soon calm down!:D
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2015
  19. Flashy

    Flashy
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    Apparently, working toilets are worth paying for. :)
     
  20. phillyd1981

    phillyd1981
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    Soz bud cheeky smiley was missing.
     
  21. DemonAV

    DemonAV
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    Shouldn't you have titled this thread Toilet trouble, number 2 instead?
     
  22. Flashy

    Flashy
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    Boom boom!

    By way of an update, the plumber's been. And he's coming back next week because he ran out of time...

    He started on another one which needed less urgent attention because it would be quick and easy, or should have been. It did exactly the same as the one I did and leaked between cistern and pan. The problem is that the cisterns release water faster than the toilet part can let it through, so it sits there and finds a hole to escape from.

    He's sealed everything he could and now it's setting before I do a test flush in a couple of hours with everything crossed.

    He did seem happy I'd had a go on the other one, though, and talked me through everything he was doing so I could try if I wanted to (I don't want to, I'm awful with silicone). Also told me I could save myself some money on his time by taking the other toilet apart again, seeing as I know what I'm doing with that part, which was nice of him, I guess.
     

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