1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

To Zoom or not to Zoom...That is the question

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Jayb, Nov 16, 2003.

?
  1. Never - I want to watch the movie as the director intended

    43 vote(s)
    72.9%
  2. Always - Wide black bars top & bottom annoy me

    2 vote(s)
    3.4%
  3. Sometimes - Depends on the movie

    14 vote(s)
    23.7%
  1. Jayb

    Jayb
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Messages:
    149
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Ratings:
    +0
    During a recent thread asking why we still see black bars on a wide screen TV, A member pointed out that he sometimes uses the zoom function to eliminate black bars while watching a 2.35:1 ratio movie.

    :confused:...I personally would never do this but wondered if I was being an AV snob, so thought I would put it to the vote.
     
  2. Hawklord

    Hawklord
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    3,424
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Aldershot, Hampshire
    Ratings:
    +257
    I never use zoom but my parents do. They have an old 4:3 28" set though so you can't really see much of the picture unless you zoom in some films. They'll go wide screen eventually though I should imagine.
     
  3. cybersoga

    cybersoga
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,628
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +25
    This poll is a little ambiguous. You have to use ZOOM with non anamorphic widescreen dvd's to to watch the movie as the director intended.
     
  4. Jayb

    Jayb
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Messages:
    149
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Ratings:
    +0
    :confused: I think this statement is incorrect but have no time just yet to investigate so feel free to explain further.
     
  5. Kevo

    Kevo
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    5,354
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +144
    It is incorrect.

    It's a matter of choice, either watch it at 4:3 or zoom to fill the screen. Either way you'll still be watching 'as intended' just the zoom will be of inferior picture quality, albeit larger.
     
  6. cybersoga

    cybersoga
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,628
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +25
    On a 16:9 widescreen TV, if you watch a non anamorphic widescreen movie (such as The Abyss, Blade Runner, Spaceballs etc) in 4:3 mode then your going to have huge borders round the whole picture, who wants to watch a movie like that????

    [​IMG]

    If you watch it in anamorphic widescreen mode and the DVD isn't anamorphic, the picture is squashed vertically.

    [​IMG]

    Zoom mode lets you view such DVDs properly.

    [​IMG]

    ZOOM mode is not meant to be used with anamorphic movies at all, but it does have it's uses as i've just demonstrated. If you use it to enlarge the picture with 2.35:1 *anamorphic* movies then the picture will look stretched vertically (people look thin and skinny) but it will fill the screen, and that's definately not what the director intended!

    The reason I thought that the question "Do you ever use the zoom function to eliminate black bars?" is ambiguous is that the zoom function on different TVs sometimes does different things, sometimes it's called something else, and you dont specify if this question is just for *anamorphic* 2.35:1 movies. Forgive me for sounding like a smart ass but zoom means different things to different people with different TV's and different DVDs.
     
  7. Jayb

    Jayb
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Messages:
    149
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Ratings:
    +0
    Cybersoga all the above examples are TV settings and as you rightly said they may be given different names for the same effect, so in that case just calling it zoom would not be specific enough.

    Sorry but maybe I did not make it clear, the heading of this section is "DVD players", hence that is the zoom I am referring too.

    However if you play a 2:35.1 ratio non anamorphic movie on a 16.9 TV, it would be impossible to zoom in to eliminate the black bars by using the DVD player or using TV settings without either some distortion or losing the edges and decreasing the resolution.

    2.35:1 & 16.9 are different shapes.

    I have Leon which is 2.35:1 non anamorphic wide screen, if I set my 16.9 TV to wide yes it will look squashed as your example above, but if I set it to cinema then even though it doesn't look distorted anymore I still have black bars top and bottom.

    And IMO this is how the director intended us to watch the movie
     
  8. Barry Bingham

    Barry Bingham
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Jaybe,

    You started this in part as a result of my contributions to the thread in Displays. I have one quibble with your wording: the purpose of my use of zoom is NOT to eliminate black bars. It is to achieve the most involving picture (as I see it) by adopting a compromise between resolution loss and picture height. That may well mean eliminating or reducing black bars - but I have no complex about black bars per se....:)
     
  9. cybersoga

    cybersoga
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,628
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +25
    What DVD player has a ZOOM mode? You should be doing it with the screen aspect ratio button.

    I know, even with 2.35:1 non anamorphic titles you still have to use "zoom" mode to watch it properly as with all non anamorphic widescreen DVDs unless it's a forein movie that has subtitles burned into the black bars (such as Taxi), then what do you do?

    And then there's the "dilemma" of watching open matt 4:3 dvd's on widescreen TV's (such as The Shining), you can use the zoom function to zoom in to effectively matt the top and bottom of the picture as it was screened in the cinema, and that would still be as the director intended...

    The point of the "zoom" function is to enlarge the picture on non anamorphic DVDs while preserving aspect ratio.
     
  10. cybersoga

    cybersoga
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,628
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +25
    Actually I now think I know what your getting at, some dvd players do have a zoom function.

    So perhaps the question should have been "Do you use your dvd players zoom function to effectively eliminate black borders on any dvd?"

    I'm sure more people would have answered Never in that case.
     
  11. Ekko Star

    Ekko Star
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    6,068
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +374
    I use "zoom" or "aspect" mode all the time on the tv. Never on the DVD.

    Why ? simply because displaying static black bars regularly on a projection telly or plasma will eventually burn lines at the edges of the borders on the screen. Bit like channels logos.

    As for this poll, it's a bit pointless really as if the function is there on your display device it is entirely your choice to use it. There is a hardly a right or wrong way ?
     
  12. Dimmy

    Dimmy
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,399
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Location:
    England
    Ratings:
    +0
    My DVD player doesn't have a Zoom function :(
     
  13. cybersoga

    cybersoga
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,628
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +25
    Neither does mine - and it's a pretty useless feature to have on a dvd player IMHO.
     
  14. Jayb

    Jayb
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Messages:
    149
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Ratings:
    +0
    Barry IMO the above statement implies that you have used the zoom on your dvd player to watch All your 2.35 disks again in 16.9. However I did start this thread by saying

    :
    I didn't say you always use it or that you always eliminate black bars.....just sometimes....:)


    Ekko Star of course its entirely your choice, if we had no choice then a poll would be useless....:confused:

    Please pick one of the following options A, A...or A.......:laugh:


    Cybersoga, at last something we agree on.......:smashin: :D
     
  15. Barry Bingham

    Barry Bingham
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    JayB

    Is Ok:) Reason I keep banging on about the "black bar" reference is that my use of zoom is about overall picture height on smaller displays - not about the black bars per se. If I had a 40" or larger display in my room, I would not zoom. Because I don't care what's above, below or to the sides of the picture: display case or black screen. Having found that such a thing exists, I see a good DVD zoom simply as a way of making the most of having too small a set relative to the viewing distance possible in my room. Which given space and/or readies to buy something bigger with an image to match my Loewe I would address by replacing the set.

    Yes: I'm rewatching my 2:35 movies on zoom, and tweaking the level of zoom to suit. Thats how I find some respond better than others to varying zooms.

    Also, note that before I got the S75, I'd have voted "never" in this poll. Because I had not seen a DVD zoom subtle enough to make me want to zoom........ Also its worth pointing out that the smaller your set, the less you will notice the resolution loss from zooming. I've seen a Tosh 220 zoom on a 28" 50Hz Panasonic and frankly there was no significant resolution loss at all. Put the same onto my 32" 100Hz Loewe and the Tosh does give unacceptable resolution loss - partly because you are stuck with a minimum zoom of x1.5.

    And while the S75 on a x1.21 of "Gladiator" looks great on my set I suspect that on, say Kevo's 40" CRT, it would look pretty poor. Hence my view that the zoom can be a useful tool to owners of smaller CRT displays. It is almost certainly irrelevance to anyone with a screen of 40" or more.... who should stick with native format, best possible resolution and, yes, black bars....
     
  16. Ekko Star

    Ekko Star
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    6,068
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +374
    The choice wouldn't be A, A or A as you have the button/settings on your own remote to make your own choice. That's probably why it was put there.



    Jayb, so the purpose of this poll is to prove/ disprove whether you are being an AV snob then is it ?

    Oh ok ! I see the point now :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  17. Jayb

    Jayb
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Messages:
    149
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Ratings:
    +0
    I am not disputing the fact that if you have a zoom function you have the choice to use it, as I have ready pointed out, with every poll we have an entirely free choice, that is the point of having a poll and if we didn't have a choice then there would only be one option which wouldn't be much use in a poll.

    Only one option =.A,A...or A....:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    The purpose of the poll is not to prove/disprove anything, but if that’s how you want to interpret it......:smashin:
     
  18. Ekko Star

    Ekko Star
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    6,068
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +374


    Oh ok ? so what exactly is the purpose of the poll ? I can only go on what you've written ?!?!

    TBH m8 I think you've made the poll a bit too ambiguous for it to be really meaningful. You've also not taken into account what display devices people are using.



    If you must go on about limited options then try expanding the ones you have included in your poll to reflect what people are watching it on.

    Most movie affeciandos will leave it as the "director intended".

    On an 8ft screen I personally leave it as Widescreen.

    On a Plasma and Rear Projection I will have it as Widescreen but will toggle movies into zoom being mindful of screenburn.

    A CRT screen would probably all be dependant on it's size. If it was a 28" widescreen, the image could be so narrow that it "may" be more enjoyable to zoom it out in order to have a larger viewing image.
    :rolleyes:
     
  19. Jayb

    Jayb
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Messages:
    149
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Ratings:
    +0
    Poll Question : DO YOU EVER USE THE ZOOM FUNCTION TO ELIMINATE BLACK BARS?

    IMO M8 it is a pretty straight forward question, admittedly I could have been more specific about whether it was a function of a DVD player or TV, but as the headings of this part of the forum are Sources/DVD Players I would of thought it was obvious....so my mistake.


    I wanted to keep the options simple but if somebody wants to expand on why they zoom or don't zoom then they are welcome to add to the thread, as you have

    As for its meaningfulness, I asked the question because of my ignorance of why anybody would use the zoom on a DVD player, particularly as I have this function available and have never dreamt of using it

    So IMHO the poll is proving to be very meaningful........:D
     
  20. Ekko Star

    Ekko Star
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    6,068
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +374


    Well there's nothing clear in that statement to say the Zoom on the TV or DVD is being used ? I have only ever had 1 DVD player out of dozens that have had any form of zoom ? Yet I have 6 display devices that all have Zoom functionality.

    Hmmmmmm.........:rolleyes:



    That's fine, but why not ask that question instead ?



    Are you sure it's the poll itself or is it the comments people are having to add ?:smashin:
     
  21. Jayb

    Jayb
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Messages:
    149
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Ratings:
    +0
    :confused: Why do you keep stating the obvious?!?!

    :confused: as I have already explained in the previous post?!?!


    :confused: because I chose not too


    You don't have to add anything............but if you do you are contributing to the poll/thread and the comments help people understand why you made the choice. The comments were started by the poll so of course they help to make it meaningful to me......yet again you state the obvious....:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    It appears that you trying to undermine the meaningfulness of this poll.....:confused: ......If you think it is a waist of time then feel free to exercise your right not to waist any more of your time.

    I feel that I have made my self very clear , if not in the beginning certainly by now and I would be very reluctant to keep repeating myself ........:boring::boring: :boring:
     
  22. Ekko Star

    Ekko Star
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    6,068
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +374
    To put it simplisticly and stating the obvious, it's obvious what the outcome of this poll is going to be.

    If you needed a poll to confirm you are being an "AV snob" then the answer to that is obvious isn't it ?:clown:
     
  23. cybersoga

    cybersoga
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,628
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +25
    Your not an "AV Snob" unless you phone up the director, get him round your house and ask him if that was how he intended the his film to be viewed! :rotfl:

    "Director Intended" seriously, who knows what the director intended! :D
     
  24. Timmy B

    Timmy B
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I have no idea why everyone is haing a go at jayb regarding this thread. He asks a valid question!
     
  25. Jayb

    Jayb
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Messages:
    149
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Ratings:
    +0
    Scores on the doors so far 75% never, 2.5% Always and 22.5% sometimes, but then I guess you knew that yesterday........:rolleyes: :rolleyes:........I would be very interested to know what they will be on Thursday.....as it is so obvious to you......:rotfl::rotfl:

    so
    I guess that means we should be calling you cyber "AV Snob" soga.......:rotfl: :rotfl:

    Timmy B, I thought so too......:smashin:
     
  26. dogtanian38

    dogtanian38
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    thank god I'm not the only one. Non-anamorphic DVD's are a major pain, especially NTSC or SVCD material. Watch squished into the middle third of the screen, or be able to count the horizontal lines from the sofa. Not good.

    I thought maybe just I had this problem, or that the zoom (aspect adjust) on my TV (LG 28" wide) was particularly good at reducing video quality.

    I dont mind black bars on say 2.35:1 films, and i dislike watching 4:3 material stretched out horizontally too. But are people still making non-anamorphic material? And can anyone recommend a DVD player that can do a better job than my TV for this kind of issue?
     
  27. Jayb

    Jayb
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Messages:
    149
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Ratings:
    +0
    Dogtanian the dvd player Barry refers to is the Panasonic S75 maybe it would be sending him a message to find out more.
     
  28. kelvin

    kelvin
    Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2002
    Messages:
    1,544
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Down South... (Bournemouth)
    Ratings:
    +45
    Lets try and keep things civil please guys... ;)

    If you're not going to add anything constructive to the thread, then please don't post at all.

    K.
     
  29. Kane D Williams

    Kane D Williams
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    750
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Nr London
    Ratings:
    +10
    It's not all about non-anamorphic DVD's, I think he wants to know if anyone zooms into an anamorphic 2.35:1 movie to eliminate the black bars and fill their display? Also, this can be done on front projectors and many DVD players, so the fact he didn't stipulate which device would be doing the zooming (player or display) is irrelevant!! I understood the question straight off, so why not leave the guy alone and answer his damn question or don't if are not bothered!

    I never zoom into a picture to get rid of the black bars, like I never watch a 4:3 movie or TV program in any other setting than 4:3. I want to see the material as it was intended to be viewed (or as near to as possible) and I simply can't stand it when people have a stretched distorted picture on their sets!

    This is one of the reasons that people like my parents won't buy a widescreen TV, as they say that it makes people look weird and fat etc. I try to explain that this is because the sales people are dicks and have the sets in the wrong mode but they don't quite get it. Then if they do see a 4:3 presentation correctly displayed on a 16:9 TV, they moan about the black bars at the sides!!! This will not end until everything is presented in an anamorphic ratio.

    It is possible I am so anal because I am a filmmaker, but I just don't get it? I tell people it's like taking a really nice panoramic holiday photo showing the whole family against a fantastic tropical vista and then cutting half the family off to fit it in a picture frame they like!

    BTW, there is a very good use for some zoom modes on certain DVD players, and that is to zoom out rather than in if the player allows it. I do this with my Toshiba SD900E to make sure I am seeing the whole picture and not loosing image due to over-scan, but when I get my DVI equipped DVD player and projector this will be a thing of the past - YeeHaa!
     
  30. Jayb

    Jayb
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Messages:
    149
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Ratings:
    +0
    I must confess to having double standards, I would never zoom in to eliminate Black bars on a dvd, but on terestrial I use "Super live" on my Tosh 32zd26 TV to fill the screen. The problem is somethings seem to be broadcast in wide screen and some arn't, Also I guess that because I watch more TV than DVD's I have just become used to it.

    + Don't forget the wife factore............:(
     

Share This Page

Loading...