Quantcast

To the self employed - are you worried?

Ed Selley

AVF Reviewer
Where does this leave company directors though?
Well, it says 'profit' which would be income and dividends up to £50k so being a director shouldn't make any difference. You just need to have three months of operational capital stuffed under your mattress to cover the delay.
 

Dancook

Distinguished Member
Chancellor Rishi Sunak's press conference to announce government support for self-employed people affected by coronavirus has finished.

Here’s what we learned:

  • Self-employed people will be able to apply for a taxable grant to cover 80% of average monthly profits over the last three years
  • Support will be capped at £2,500 per month, available to those with with a trading profit of less than £50,000 last year
  • More than half of a claimant's income needs to come from self-employment, and they must have a tax return for last year
  • The scheme will initially cover three months, backdated to March, and be paid as a lump sum in June
  • Mr Sunak said support was being targeted "at those who need it most" and the self-employed "have not been forgotten"
 

Rockets

Active Member
@Raszcak -both your posts are bang on the money! I appreciate there is two sides to everything but their is simply far too many people in our society (especially within the self-employed) who have lots of savings etc but they would much rather take every penny they can from the government without giving a toss about the impact on the rest of us (the poorer members of society) who will have to pay the costs through higher tax etc etc in the future (which the poor won't be able to afford). Not saying this applies to all self employed by any stretch but we are in denial if we don't admit the greed of some sections of society isn't a problem.
I would agree in the 80's and perhaps in the 90's - with the 'especially self-employed'.

But the self-employed landscape has totally changed in the last 20 years.

Unfortunately many of the poor you describe are now self-employed. Add to that getting finance is a nightmare - mortgages are very hard.

Me I had to go self-employed after I got made redundant in the last recession 2009. Then spent my redundancy on computers and software. The rest of the redundancy was used for the next 3 years to prop up my wages because I couldn't get enough work in the climate - very hard times.
 
Its not free money you know - future taxpayers will have to pay for the current bailouts for many generations to come so it is incumbent on all of us to limit what is spent from the public purse now. Can you not dip into your own savings?
@Raszcak -both your posts are bang on the money! I appreciate there is two sides to everything but their is simply far too many people in our society (especially within the self-employed) who have lots of savings etc but they would much rather take every penny they can from the government without giving a toss about the impact on the rest of us (the poorer members of society) who will have to pay the costs through higher tax etc etc in the future (which the poor won't be able to afford). Not saying this applies to all self employed by any stretch but we are in denial if we don't admit the greed of some sections of society isn't a problem.
Agreed. I appreciate it doesn’t work for everyone and it’s not a willy waving contest either. But although I’ve been without income and self sufficient it means that I still am. As such I’m not going try and claim anything. In fact I’m actually doing the reverse, and I again I appreciate not everybody can. But I’m actually taking on and accepting paid work again to extend my self sustainability. Yes it means doing different stuff than what I was doing, but as I always preach 😜 about personal responsibility now is the time to put that into practice as well.

Absolutely not intended as a dig to anyone, I just believe that if we can then we can also help in that way.
 

gavinhanly

Well-known Member
So - I went self employed in November 2018, however I made my redundancy money stretch as far as I could and didn't give myself an income (just the basic) until May 2019. So, given the rules from Rishi, I don't seem to qualify (because it's based on the tax year when I didn't have self employed income). Have I got that right?
 

Ed Selley

AVF Reviewer

ganga

Active Member
I would agree in the 80's and perhaps in the 90's - with the 'especially self-employed'.

But the self-employed landscape has totally changed in the last 20 years.

Unfortunately many of the poor you describe are now self-employed. Add to that getting finance is a nightmare - mortgages are very hard.

Me I had to go self-employed after I got made redundant in the last recession 2009. Then spent my redundancy on computers and software. The rest of the redundancy was used for the next 3 years to prop up my wages because I couldn't get enough work in the climate - very hard times.
Hey mate, hope your good. I fully agree with you that things have changed a lot in terms of obtaining finance, like mortgages, etc for the self employed. Don't get me wrong they are lots of people who are self employed who do things by the book and pay their way in terms of taxation etc, but my argument is there is a awful lot who still don't. Certain sectors are full of tax cheats/fraudsters : Taxi drivers, painters, decorators, plumbers, builders, etc etc. Many people in these sort of sectors earn good money but tell the government (HMRC) they earn something below £10K a year (depending on what they think they can get out the government and how much they are willing to lie) and they are the first ones in the queue for every benefit/grant they can possibly claim from the government. They will lie to claim universal credit, housing benefit, council tax reductions, any hardship loan/grant, etc etc.
 

stiv674

Well-known Member
Agreed. I appreciate it doesn’t work for everyone and it’s not a willy waving contest either. But although I’ve been without income and self sufficient it means that I still am. As such I’m not going try and claim anything. In fact I’m actually doing the reverse, and I again I appreciate not everybody can. But I’m actually taking on and accepting paid work again to extend my self sustainability. Yes it means doing different stuff than what I was doing, but as I always preach 😜 about personal responsibility now is the time to put that into practice as well.

Absolutely not intended as a dig to anyone, I just believe that if we can then we can also help in that way.
Surely that should apply to everyone, self employed or employed, if you can afford to get by for a few weeks then don't accept any government help.
 

LicensedTaximan

Well-known Member
Yesterday I returned the taxi I rent back to the fleet owner due to the complete lack of work. The fleet owner reduced the rental by over half but unfortunately that still wasn't enough for me to earn a living over and above those costs. So far he has had around 100 taxis returned out of the (approx) 200 cabs he owns with more being returned every day. Although it's down to the fleet owner to cover everything to do with the cab itself such as licensing, servicing, insurance, ved (road tax) etc, etc it doesn't include my diesel as that's on top of the rental therefore it's just untenable.

Thank heavens wifey is a school teacher (special needs) and is guaranteed her income plus we have no mortgage and I get the state pension and both our daughters are earning. One doing her PhD in inorganic chemistry at Berkeley Uni in America and our other daughter at home with us whilst on her two year training course. Therefore being pragmatic about this I have to consider that my family and I are fortunate. Having said that not being able to earn a penny over the next ???? is not fun.

I know others in my situation (being self employed) are going through far worse than I and it will be hell for some. All I can say is I wish you all that I would wish for myself and that we all get through this sooner rather than later. Let's hope the latest financial help for us self employed made to us by the Government this afternoon will go some way to ameliorate this gawd awful and difficult situation. Take care, be safe and stay healthy. I will be clapping for those working for and in the NHS at 8pm tonight. Love from LT. ✌ 😘
 
Last edited:

Ed Selley

AVF Reviewer
Well I feel sorry for all those who are LTD and self employed.
I'm not terribly surprised. What I will say is that at the end of this, if that nice Mr Sunak pops up to say my direct taxation will increase in light of the dramatic measures taken by the government, I'd have to point out that as it was felt I'd be just fine without them, I won't be terribly inclined to support any efforts for me to pay for them. If the deal is that I'm left alone afterwards as is the case here, so be it.
 
Surely that should apply to everyone, self employed or employed, if you can afford to get by for a few weeks then don't accept any government help.
Oh most definitely. I’m not self employed, so perhaps shouldn’t have posted that here. However as the discussion touched that subject by definition I broadened that to include all areas.
 

stiv674

Well-known Member
Seems like it won't be available until June anyway, if we're out of lock down by then and I'm surviving financially then I doubt I'll bother applying for anything.
 
Well they have been trying to get the single self employed off the LTD company dividends system and this is probably the biggest gesture towards that so far.
But isn’t that fair and reasonable? I mean if you choose in the good times to only pay yourself the minimum salary as allowed for a director, than that is your salary. What else should it be measured against?

That risk isn’t just there in these unprecedented times but is not different unless I’m missing something than say you require other services based upon income.
 

Ed Selley

AVF Reviewer
Perhaps a daft question and I may be missing something. But is that even possible?
Yes. I'm the director and sole employee of a limited company. At the time I went self employed in 2012, it appealed because it provided a degree of protection for my house as it wasn't bound up with the fate of the company. Ironically, for the last two years it has been less tax efficient than being a sole trader but I needed consistent accounts to re-mortgage after divorce.

I'm in the fortunate position that- for now anyway- my work is ongoing if a little curtailed. At the end of this, I suspect there will be a wider argument about whether you want to exist inside or outside the safety net. I have accepted the risks from the day I- not entirely voluntarily- went self-employed. What I don't want is to be liable for the costs of a net that doesn't break my fall.
 

Hillskill

Moderator/Games Reviewer
Very very similar situation to me Ed. We have cash (savings not cold hard mattress stuffing cash) reserves and will not starve for now but business has dived off a cliff, just like everyone else.
 
Yes. I'm the director and sole employee of a limited company. At the time I went self employed in 2012, it appealed because it provided a degree of protection for my house as it wasn't bound up with the fate of the company. Ironically, for the last two years it has been less tax efficient than being a sole trader but I needed consistent accounts to re-mortgage after divorce.

I'm in the fortunate position that- for now anyway- my work is ongoing if a little curtailed. At the end of this, I suspect there will be a wider argument about whether you want to exist inside or outside the safety net. I have accepted the risks from the day I- not entirely voluntarily- went self-employed. What I don't want is to be liable for the costs of a net that doesn't break my fall.
But shouldn't we then be careful in this context of the terminology, or perhaps I'm out of date. I wouldn't class the director of a legal entity as self employed, where as a sole trader I would. I guess I'm out of date as perhaps HMRC may have muddled the water themselves with classifying some legal entities as personal services companies and then treating those directors as self employed.

Apologies for going off topic :confused:
 

Wahreo

Distinguished Member
Bad news for me then with a Limited company.

de registering for VAT now then. I’ll be making sure I’m under the VAT threshold and shall be changing the way I do business.

I had 6 months work booked in before this kicked off, all with VAT added.

edit: I’m now making plans to get back to work, organising smaller jobs first to help cash flow, keeping in mind a small job is usually five days.

I’ve factored on being off the whole of April. this bump in the road means I’m pretty much booked up for the rest of the year.
 
Last edited:

Hillskill

Moderator/Games Reviewer
Good for you. My business is the party game. Can’t see 50+ people being allowed in a room together for a long time. Ugh!

Edit: oh stooop! Don’t be sad for me. I will prevail. Prevail less inclined to pay tax than I ever have!
 

Desmo

Member
Another small business owner here, two directors but with 5 staff. So the staff are covered up to 80% but nothing for the directors.
 

Wahreo

Distinguished Member
Limited company that takes money via a small salary and the rest via dividends?

then you’ll get 80% of your salary.
 

Desmo

Member
Wow :D

So much for playing by the rules. Doesn't seem worth the bother.
 

Latest News

TV shipment forecasts slashed for Q2 2020
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Samsung Display to quit LCD production
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Sony XH81, XH80 and X70 TVs now available in UK
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
TV sales rise as UK stays home
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
AVForums Podcast: 30th March 2020
  • By Phil Hinton
  • Published
Top Bottom