To The Outbuilding....... AND BEYOND!

snapper3166

Active Member
***************************************************
UP TO DATE INFO: last updated 04/02/11

I have added this section right at the top so people can see what is going on at the moment . Hopefully it will save people having to read the entire thread (if they dont want to!)

Build Stage:
All Done!

Help\Advice:
Room Acoustics - HERE

THINGS I STILL NEED TO BUY:
If you have any of the following and would like to sell (or give away :D) then please let me know. If we can work something out we will then tie it up in the classifieds as per the rules!

Nothing at the moment

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Hi All,

I have meaning to start a build thread for a few weeks now, finally got a couple of hours so thought I would give it a go!

If there are any experts out there in Room Acoustics/Treatments then please subscribe....... it's one of the area's that fascinates me and I will no doubt have many many questions!!

BACKGROUND:
We purchased our house back in 2005 and completely renovated the entire house, this took 6 very intensive months and by the time we got to looking at outside we had had enough! After a bit of a rest we decided to pack our jobs in and go off travelling for a year. Fast forward 3 years and we are now back and with a 2 year old terrorizing the house!

Having got sick of being told to turn things down or having my limited viewing interrupted by "The wheels on the bus go round and round...." at full volume, I decided I needed to sort something out :D

When we bought the house we inherited the previous owners 9M x 3M Outbuilding, this was divided into 3 rooms, 1 for storage of junk and the other 2 for a aviary, having no use for this we locked the doors and pretty much left it for 5 years........

UNTIL NOW! The story begins…………………
 
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kongisking

Novice Member
i wait in anticipation of the adventure that you will now begin!!
 

snapper3166

Active Member
So after a lot of thinking I came up with a plan to maximise the use of the building for 3 things:

1) Storage of the Garden Stuff (Lawnmower, Tools etc....)
2) Relocating my office out of the conservatory.
3) And most importantly - Home Cinema Heaven!

After a few trial runs I came up with the following layout:






As you can see I will be knocking the 2 existing walls down and building another one to seperate off the storage area, this will then leave me with a wall for the projector screen!

The sofa will sit 4M from the wall and have a 3M gap behind for my desk.

Thankfully the building already has a boiler and central heating!
 
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Sanders79

Distinguished Member
Another person for me to be forever jealous of... I hate you all with your fancy outbuildings! :D

That is one excellent outbuilding you inherited there, should be fantastic when you finish :thumbsup:
 

snapper3166

Active Member
Another person for me to be forever jealous of... I hate you all with your fancy outbuildings! :D

That is one excellent outbuilding you inherited there, should be fantastic when you finish :thumbsup:

Yes, apologies in advance.... I feel ashamed it has sat there for 5 years whilst I read of people converting their broom cupboard because of lack of space.

Hopefully I can make up for it now though! :smashin:
 

jagdeepp

Banned
Your very lucky to have something to work with! I had a large space and worked from scratch to create a purpose built theatre/chillax room.

Here's my job for you to look at to perhaps give you an idea or 2 My build is 9mtrs by 7mtrs divided into 2 rooms, storage is 2mtrx 7 and the theatre is 7.5x7mtrs

http://www.avforums.com/forums/members-home-cinema-gallery/1295094-dog-house.html

I had exactly the same initial thought. Having installed a projector and screen in the lounge I was directed to turn the volume down every evening as the baby was sleeping (in the room directly above). The position was more difficult since i had 7 downlighters which made it easier for the sound to travel through into the bedroom.

My theatre is at the back of the garden but around 90foot away! The advantage is : sound cranked up - who cares!? it affects no one. The disadvantage is: the mrs wont come to the back to watch a film when we've put our (now) 20 month old to sleep as she may wake up and she wont hear her. We've got a baby monitor but the reception doesnt extend to the back, even if it did the mrs would insist the volume is played low enough for her to hear the monitor! I came up with a good solution whereby i'd call her mobile phone which would be left in the bedroom. We'd then put my phone on loudspeaker at the back and hey presto! But.. again this was shortlived as 'er indoors kept looking at the phone every few minutes! If the toddler woke she wouldnt return to the film.

I point out the above as it'll probably be a consideration in your household too. The plus point, and its a significant one depending on how you look at it: you get serious 'me' time.. If you dont mind watching films on your own (I really dont!) or can get some mates round where you can enjoy some beers, fart out loud and sing along to your music or scream out during a football game you may find yourself in brick and mortar heaven on earth! I do. I find myself around twice a week going in with friends or even on my own to either work, play video games or watch a movie!
 

snapper3166

Active Member
Here's my job for you to look at to perhaps give you an idea or 2 My build is 9mtrs by 7mtrs divided into 2 rooms, storage is 2mtrx 7 and the theatre is 7.5x7mtrs

http://www.avforums.com/forums/members-home-cinema-gallery/1295094-dog-house.html
Oh my god, now what have you done!!! Love it.......... lights, the HTPC, Love the Remote control Lighting switches!!

I can see we are going to have to have a serious chat :D

Interestingly I have spend the last 2 evenings researching acoustic panels / bass traps. I'll be very interested to talk to you about where you sourced yours and how you decided on the amount.

Did you DIY with REW (or the like) or get someone in?
 
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snapper3166

Active Member
My theatre is at the back of the garden but around 90foot away! The advantage is : sound cranked up - who cares!? it affects no one. The disadvantage is: the mrs wont come to the back to watch a film when we've put our (now) 20 month old to sleep as she may wake up and she wont hear her. We've got a baby monitor but the reception doesnt extend to the back, even if it did the mrs would insist the volume is played low enough for her to hear the monitor! I came up with a good solution whereby i'd call her mobile phone which would be left in the bedroom. We'd then put my phone on loudspeaker at the back and hey presto! But.. again this was shortlived as 'er indoors kept looking at the phone every few minutes! If the toddler woke she wouldnt return to the film.

I point out the above as it'll probably be a consideration in your household too. The plus point, and its a significant one depending on how you look at it: you get serious 'me' time.. If you dont mind watching films on your own (I really dont!) or can get some mates round where you can enjoy some beers, fart out loud and sing along to your music or scream out during a football game you may find yourself in brick and mortar heaven on earth! I do. I find myself around twice a week going in with friends or even on my own to either work, play video games or watch a movie!
I know EXACTLY what you mean here!!!!!! I am thinking of running a webcam to the outbuilding from the nursery... but I still reckon I will be there on my own most of the time....
 

jagdeepp

Banned
I know EXACTLY what you mean here!!!!!! I am thinking of running a webcam to the outbuilding from the nursery... but I still reckon I will be there on my own most of the time....
..Tonight we watched "the crazies"...indoors! I couldn't be arsed going out to the back on my own. I'm tired and would probably fall asleep. The mrs wanted to watch one so the movie was enjoyed indoors. I actually feel guilty watching movies indoors.

As regard the sound panels, they're all diy. In fact, everything in that room is diy post-skim to the walls and ceilings. I decided on 2 sound panels on either wall purely for aesthetic reasons! The 2 rear sound panels in fact are in place to block the windows, keep the cold out and act as sound panels, a winner on all counts.

I've actually painted the room chocolate suede so it looks darker than in the vid and pics on my thread. Darker is indeed better. Still more work to be done but i have other priorities at the moment.

Let me know if you need any advice!

PS i'd suggest you visit AVSForum.com . I was inspired by the projects there! Not that the ones on here are bad but there are far more dedicated theatre rooms on there.
 

burtonpark

Well-known Member
Hi Snapper
Thanks for your PM and good luck with the build. Having visited my own cinema, you've sent me a PM for my opinion on tips to improve the accoustic quality of the room, so here are my first thoughts.

First some basic rules:

1) Aim to acheive acoustics symmetry for the left and right of the theatre, especially at the first reflection position.

2) The area behind the screen should be acoustically dead so that sound does not reflect off this wall.

3) The area around the screen should be as dark as possible.

I would therefore

a) Brick up the window to the right nearest the screen (at least), if you don't want to brick up the second one, then use an external electrical shutter(s) to darken the room!

b) Reposition the radiator on the left, use underfloor heating if poss.

c) create a 18inch thick baffle wall, which is like a hollow stud wall, and mount the speakers within that framework. Fill the framework with rockwool at least 8 inches deep. Cover the front in black fabric. Allow mounting points for the screen to hang from the timber framework.
See section 3.5 in this guidehere

d) Mount the L/R/C speakers within this framework. Ideally give yourself three mounting positions for the sub, Left/Centre/Right.

e) I would strongly suggest (even if you only plan for it now, but us a smaller 16x9) a 2.35 screen, as this will give you a wider image, and more room below to mount the centre speaker. If its all a bit tight, and you don't want to use an accoustically transparent screen, you can mount the left and right speakers within a few inches of the sidewalls but toe them in so the sweet spot is the listening position. Using an acoustically transparent screen will increase the screen size you can have, but you also need to calculate the optimum viewing distance too and I havn't done that. On my 2.35 110 inch wide screen I reckon the optimum veiwing is 13 ft, I have two rows of chairs one at 12ft and one at 15ft


f) With such a long thin room, you will likely have some noticable bass peaks (like everyone), but you could consider using some of the storage room as a bass trap!!

e) You will need some left and right panels at the first reflection point of the left/right speaker and a fuzzy rug for the centre speaker, if you are having a hard floor and not going acoustically transparent

g) If would also wire for two rear speakers, incase you feel the need to upgrade to 7.1


Hope that helps
 

smileebloke

Standard Member
Having read your post I am VERY jealous, there's loads of potenential for your bespoke cinema room. I look forward to the progress you've made.

I'm in the process of renovating our first house (with LTGF) and taking the opportunity of installing a decent AV system in the living room. I've found the people at www.hdcable.co.uk very helpful and inciteful when it comes to cabling so would reccomend them (No I dont work for them nor do I get any form of comission other than a warm fuzzy feeling).

Good luck.

Smilee
 

snapper3166

Active Member
Hi Bob,

Thanks for you time and good to hear from you again, I have added comments below:

Hi Snapper

1) Aim to acheive acoustics symmetry for the left and right of the theatre, especially at the first reflection position.
Not exactly sure what acoustic symmetry is, do you mean, speakers equally spaced etc?

2) The area behind the screen should be acoustically dead so that sound does not reflect off this wall.

3) The area around the screen should be as dark as possible.

I would therefore

a) Brick up the window to the right nearest the screen (at least), if you don't want to brick up the second one, then use an external electrical shutter(s) to darken the room!

Already done (I am slightly behind with the build thread). I have bricked up the window next to the screen and the one on the back wall.

b) Reposition the radiator on the left, use underfloor heating if poss.
The main radiator is going on the back wall now, I may have to have a small one on the LH wall just to get some heat down that end of the room. If I was building the room from scratch I would have put a heater matrix in the screed, unfortunately this one is already up so I cant do that and I don't want to run an electric version as I already have that in the kitchen and know how long it takes to heat the room AND how much electricity it uses :D

c) create a 18inch thick baffle wall, which is like a hollow stud wall, and mount the speakers within that framework. Fill the framework with rockwool at least 8 inches deep. Cover the front in black fabric. Allow mounting points for the screen to hang from the timber framework.
See section 3.5 in this guidehere


d) Mount the L/R/C speakers within this framework. Ideally give yourself three mounting positions for the sub, Left/Centre/Right.

Need to look into this more, I will come back to you.


e) I would strongly suggest (even if you only plan for it now, but us a smaller 16x9) a 2.35 screen, as this will give you a wider image, and more room below to mount the centre speaker. If its all a bit tight, and you don't want to use an accoustically transparent screen, you can mount the left and right speakers within a few inches of the sidewalls but toe them in so the sweet spot is the listening position. Using an acoustically transparent screen will increase the screen size you can have, but you also need to calculate the optimum viewing distance too and I havn't done that. On my 2.35 110 inch wide screen I reckon the optimum veiwing is 13 ft, I have two rows of chairs one at 12ft and one at 15ft
Interesting point to allow for a 2.35 screen in the future, I had looked extensively into this after our chat at your house but had come to the conclusion that it would have to be a 16:9. This was mainly due the the fact I would have to spend £1000+ on an anamorphic lens and an auto arm to shift it in/out when swapping viewing material (footie etc) and I would have to buy/build some kind of shelf instead of using a normal mounting bracket (and yes, I realise the 2nd reason is awful!)


f) With such a long thin room, you will likely have some noticable bass peaks (like everyone), but you could consider using some of the storage room as a bass trap!!

e) You will need some left and right panels at the first reflection point of the left/right speaker and a fuzzy rug for the centre speaker, if you are having a hard floor and not going acoustically transparent
Very interesting about using part of the storage room as a bass trap, I think thats a fairly lengthy conversation so will pick it up on its own later on.

Failing using the storage room I have been looking at some DIY treatments but I am not sure if its a case of just doing them or building the room measuring how bad it is and then working out how much and what I need, any ideas?


g) If would also wire for two rear speakers, incase you feel the need to upgrade to 7.1
This will definitely be done, I have purchased 60M of speaker cable, all 7 speaker runs will be done before any work starts
 

burtonpark

Well-known Member
Hi Bob,

Thanks for you time and good to hear from you again, I have added comments below:



Not exactly sure what acoustic symmetry is, do you mean, speakers equally spaced etc?

Yes put the speakers symetric toi the room and seating position, but also the walls should have equal sound absorbance and reflectance characteristics, bricking the window up if its a solid brick wall on the other side should do it



Already done (I am slightly behind with the build thread). I have bricked up the window next to the screen and the one on the back wall.



The main radiator is going on the back wall now, I may have to have a small one on the LH wall just to get some heat down that end of the room. If I was building the room from scratch I would have put a heater matrix in the screed, unfortunately this one is already up so I cant do that and I don't want to run an electric version as I already have that in the kitchen and know how long it takes to heat the room AND how much electricity it uses :D




Need to look into this more, I will come back to you.




Interesting point to allow for a 2.35 screen in the future, I had looked extensively into this after our chat at your house but had come to the conclusion that it would have to be a 16:9. This was mainly due the the fact I would have to spend £1000+ on an anamorphic lens and an auto arm to shift it in/out when swapping viewing material (footie etc) and I would have to buy/build some kind of shelf instead of using a normal mounting bracket (and yes, I realise the 2nd reason is awful!) Many people are happy with the zoom method for anamorphic and panasonic projectors have two settings buit in to acheive that - How big is the screen and whats the spacing below? - you don't really want the centre channel speaker on the floor!, that can be a limit with 16:9, CALCULATE: Whats the width of a 2.35 screen that is the same height of a 16:9 screen that allows the centre speaker below the screen. Then put the left and right outside that.




thats a fairly lengthy conversation so will pick it up on its own later on.

Failing using the storage room I have been looking at some DIY treatments but I am not sure if its a case of just doing them or building the room measuring how bad it is and then working out how much and what I need, any ideas?
I would simply put large base traps in the corners behind the false screen wall behind and up and below the left and right speakers



This will definitely be done, I have purchased 60M of speaker cable, all 7 speaker runs will be done before any work starts
...answers in blue
 

snapper3166

Active Member
Failing using the storage room I have been looking at some DIY treatments but I am not sure if its a case of just doing them or building the room measuring how bad it is and then working out how much and what I need, any ideas?
OK Just to expain the panels mentioned earlier:


The DIY panels are detailed HERE
They look fairly simple to make and I was thinking of running 1 either side of the room from the projector wall 4M down to the seating area at an angle to the ceiling and wall (hope that makes sensed
 
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burtonpark

Well-known Member
Failing using the storage room I have been looking at some DIY treatments but I am not sure if its a case of just doing them or building the room measuring how bad it is and then working out how much and what I need, any ideas?

OK Just to expain the panels mentioned earlier:


The DIY panels are detailed HERE
They look fairly simple to make and I was thinking of running 1 either side of the room from the projector wall 4M down to the seating area at an angle to the ceiling and wall (hope that makes sensed
You'll need a couple of those for the first reflection points, but I suggest most of the treatments are best placed in the cavity of the screen wall, you need 18 inches space ideally, what have you got? Also I need to know what construction method the walls use and the materials, eg breezeblcok with stud and plasterboard, brick etc etc.
 

snapper3166

Active Member
...answers in blue
Looks like we were typing at the same time!! :)

Yes put the speakers symetric toi the room and seating position, but also the walls should have equal sound absorbance and reflectance characteristics, bricking the window up if its a solid brick wall on the other side should do it
Ok that makes sense and yes they will be the same.

Many people are happy with the zoom method for anamorphic and panasonic projectors have two settings buit in to acheive that - How big is the screen and whats the spacing below? - you don't really want the centre channel speaker on the floor!, that can be a limit with 16:9, CALCULATE: Whats the width of a 2.35 screen that is the same height of a 16:9 screen that allows the centre speaker below the screen. Then put the left and right outside that.
I am buggered on that one at the moment as my projector (Epson TW3500) will not do this, however, I am still going to work all of that out and if possible I will allow for future changes at a point where I can upgrade the Projector

I would simply put large base traps in the corners behind the false screen wall behind and up and below the left and right speakers
OK, That makes sens and would certainly look better! What sort of bass traps, can you show me a picture/link?
 

burtonpark

Well-known Member
Looks like we were typing at the same time!! :)

OK, That makes sens and would certainly look better! What sort of bass traps, can you show me a picture/link?
I'll try to find something, if you had 2ft wide gap (do you), I would just pile (cheap) 600mmx1200mm rockwool slabs up one on top of each other in the top-left, top right, bottom left, bottom right . You could also use 600mmx600mm, You could cut them down smaller, but the material is a bitch to work with - as I found when I tried it, so plan on doing the least possible, one pack of 100mm slabs was about £20 if I remeber right, so for under £200 you could create a deep absorbant wall !!!! THE REASON FOR SUGGESTING PLACING THEM ON TOP IS THEY DON't STAND UP ON THERE OWN EASILY AND FLOP AROUND, YOU WOULD THEN NEED TO BATTON OUT THE AREA

I'm still confused what that dividing wall is made of or whether you've already built it? Also what height is the room and is there a ceiling void?
 

snapper3166

Active Member
You'll need a couple of those for the first reflection points, but I suggest most of the treatments are best placed in the cavity of the screen wall, you need 18 inches space ideally, what have you got? Also I need to know what construction method the walls use and the materials, eg breezeblcok with stud and plasterboard, brick etc etc.
OK here goes:

New partition wall is 3.6nm Solid Low Density Block - Single Skin
Existing walls are 3.6nm Solid Low Density Block - Single Skin with brick outer wall

It was planned that the walls & ceiling would be dot & dab insulation backed plasterboard straight on to the Blocks. That said, i have no fixed ideas so if I need to change it I can.

I really like the idea of a cavity for the speakers (as you know they are not the best looking things!) now you have mentioned it. This could quite easily constructed in front of the new partition wall

I'll try to find something, if you had 2ft wide gap (do you), I would just pile (cheap) 600mmx1200mm rockwool slabs up one on top of each other in the top-left, top right, bottom left, bottom right . You could also use 600mmx600mm, You could cut them down smaller, but the material is a bitch to work with - as I found when I tried it, so plan on doing the least possible, one pack of 100mm slabs was about £20 if I remeber right, so for under £200 you could create a deep absorbant wall !!!! THE REASON FOR SUGGESTING PLACING THEM ON TOP IS THEY DON't STAND UP ON THERE OWN EASILY AND FLOP AROUND, YOU WOULD THEN NEED TO BATTON OUT THE AREA
I can take space out of the room lengthways no problem (up to a point!), however, the width is very tight, it is almost at the bear minimum I would want it. So 18inch would be the minimu, 24 inches would make life easier?!?! AND CHEAPER!

I'm still confused what that dividing wall is made of or whether you've already built it? Also what height is the room and is there a ceiling void?
Yes the wall is already built and as above it is LDB. I will measure height shortly and yes, I have space abouve the ceiling (as can be seen on the exterior photos earlier in the thread)
 

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