To Squeezebox or not???

[jameson_uk]

Not really sure which forum this sits best in but will try here

Currently I have all my music ripped as FLAC and stored on my Synology NAS box. I have a HTPC which has a Xonar HDAV sound card connected up to my Onkyo 876 amp via HDMI and KEF Q35 speakers.

I really don't like any of the PC based music front ends so started thinking about a Squeezebox. This then got me thinking that perhaps what I really want is a Squeezebox and an external DAC. This got me thinking that perhaps I should just live with what I have

The primary concern here is audio quality but a nice interface would help. My options then are

• Leave everything as is. Music output over HDMI as 2.0 LPCM and use DAC in the Onkyo
• Dig out my old interconnets and connect the Xonar up to the Onkyo via these and use the DAC on the soundcard
• Get a Squeezebox and use the DAC in the Onkyo
• Get a Squeezebox and an external DAC

I believe the DAC in the Xonar is meant to be decent but I really want to know what the difference in audio quality is would be with the other methods. Without spending a couple of hundred quid on a Squeezebox and DAC I am not going to be able to do this comparison myself...

Going round in circles again any thoughts?

 

[Member 351202]

Sonos - Home ?

 

[confused88]

Get a Squeezebox. It has an integrated DAC so you won't need to add another unless you are not happy with the SQ. You can bypass it and see whether the DAC on the 876 is any better. The duet and classic versions use different DACs and some users consider the classic version to be of superior SQ while in a recent thread the yet to be released Squeezebox Touch is rated even higher.

 

[jameson_uk]

Get a Squeezebox. It has an integrated DAC so you won't need to add another unless you are not happy with the SQ.

But my dilema is that I don't want to fork out the money on a Squeezebox if it is not going to sound as good as my current setup. I know I could then add an external DAC but if that only bring me up to the same quality I have now then I have just spend a lot of money to get where I am already...

My friend has a Sonos and it is nice but from what I have seen the Squeezeboxes are meant to have better sound quality?

 

[pwood]

Get a Squeezebox. It has an integrated DAC so you won't need to add another unless you are not happy with the SQ. You can bypass it and see whether the DAC on the 876 is any better. The duet and classic versions use different DACs and some users consider the classic version to be of superior SQ while in a recent thread the yet to be released Squeezebox Touch is rated even higher.

Having just streamed a WAV file to my PS3 from my laptop and discovered the quality was as good if not slightly less harsh than my Arcam i too am wondering about using my 875's DAC. Your are saying then that a Squeezebox would allow unadulterated bitstream to the DAC in the 875. PS3 is tad noisy and requires the TV to be on all the time hence why am considering the Squeeze box duet and controller.

The sonus system looks to be the best for ease of use but i cannot find anything that confirm if the DAC in that can be bypassed and bitstream to external DAC as above. Can anyone confirm this.

OP I have jumped into you thread, sorry but seems you are asking the same question i have been pondering.

 

[confused88]

I thought that if the optical connection is used the Squeezebox DAC plays no role but whether the signal is still altered I really don't know.

 

[pwood]

Trying to confirm that as the only one i know is spot on for sound quality is the Linn DS which costs a lot more.....1K

 

[confused88]

Quite a few members here use Squeezebox in a hifi set up in place of a CD player. Could this mean that the quality is actually there?
There is always the option to go for the transformer if you are prepared to spend 1K.

 

[pwood]

I take it from the specs that the Squeezebox wont play high res music files ie the master recordings available from Linn / Naim albeit not much content i could bare anyway.

 

[confused88]

It is compatible with many lossless compressed formats but probably not with "higher res." so not so good for you then.

 

[jameson_uk]

I take it from the specs that the Squeezebox wont play high res music files ie the master recordings available from Linn / Naim albeit not much content i could bare anyway.

I am more interested in CD audio with all my music being ripped to FLAC. What I would really like is sound quality towards the reference end of the spectrum with a digital source but on a budget

I guess the real question though is whether a Squeezebox with an external DAC would provide a big improvement over the Asus Xonar card

 

[confused88]

I am pretty sure it does FLAC from CD rips. It's mentioned in the specs. I have ripped a CD to WAV and that was working fine too. I just couldn't tell the difference between that and the low bit rate rips...
I hope someone else has more info on the quality of the squeezebox DAC.

 

[coolio107]

I am more interested in CD audio with all my music being ripped to FLAC. What I would really like is sound quality towards the reference end of the spectrum with a digital source but on a budget

I guess the real question though is whether a Squeezebox with an external DAC would provide a big improvement over the Asus Xonar card

What's "reference" for you?
You want audiophile? Get the Transporter.
You want juat really good audio? Get a SB Classic (SB3). Want a bit better? Wait for the SB Touch (but then you'll probably only _need_ that for HD Audio).

If you think the Transporter is too expensive you will probably have a hard time finding something much cheaper that beats the SB.

Sonos is fine, too, btw. I tested it against my SB3 and it sounded similar (ZP90) although I couldn't really do a REAL side-by-side test because I have no equipment to do the volume correction and it's absolutely impossible to match volumes manually and sync streams between Sonos and SB.

BTW, flac is a native format on the Squeezebox so that should not be an issue.

I don't know your Soundcard or the Onkyo but from the AV receivers I've heard so far I'd say the SB usually sounds better.

 

[Druboo]

I am more interested in CD audio with all my music being ripped to FLAC. What I would really like is sound quality towards the reference end of the spectrum with a digital source but on a budget

As Coolio says Compared to what?

To put in some perspective my FMJ DV139 is by all accounts a pretty good cd spinner, but has only ever played cd's on a handful of occasions as the quality of the squeezeboxes is as good from the SB3 and bettered by the Transporter. All plugged into the pre/pro power and speakers in my sig.

My slightly biased suggestion would be, get an SB3/Classic and use its DAC into whatever the Onkyo equivalent of stereo direct is

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Are you happy with the functionality that you already have and don't mind having your PC somewhere near your hi-fi?
If so, IMO the Squeezebox really isn't going to add much, but I say that with a caveat.
The weakest link in your system for music is your AV amp.

I'd like to suggest that you'd be better off changing that to something like a pre-processor (e.g. Arcam 8000AP + power amp). That will not only improve movie sound, but also make a big difference to stereo music, regardless of whether it's being streamed from the PC or SB3.

 

[t-force]

I run my Squeezebox 3 via stereo interconnects into my Onkyo PR-SC886 and then my TAG 100x5R. It sounds bloody good. There was a slight improvement when I used the SB3's DAC over using the Onkyo's.

I guess the upside of a Squeezebox is that if you like the system (as I found I did), you can then expand it into other rooms using eg. a Boom - best small integrated stereo unit I've heard.

 

[jameson_uk]

Are you happy with the functionality that you already have and don't mind having your PC somewhere near your hi-fi?
If so, IMO the Squeezebox really isn't going to add much, but I say that with a caveat.

The PC is already connected to the amp as all TV, DVDs, BluRay ... goes through it. This is my main worry that I am not going to actually get any better quality via a Squeezebox than I already do via the PC.

The weakest link in your system for music is your AV amp.

Indeed it is not that musical but I think the speakers are actually the weakest link (everything else has been upgraded but not sorted the speakers yet).

Amazing how a little search for some replacement cans has lead me down a path that has ended up considering getting a Squeezebox, new stereo amp (or pre/power) some new flooderstanders for music and a sat/sub combo for home cinema

 

[jameson_uk]

As Coolio says Compared to what?

Not sure If I can spend around £300 and get much better sound quality I would be very happy. If this was approaching the quality of a £1k CD player I would be over the moon

To put in some perspective my FMJ DV139 is by all accounts a pretty good cd spinner, but has only ever played cd's on a handful of occasions as the quality of the squeezeboxes is as good from the SB3 and bettered by the Transporter. All plugged into the pre/pro power and speakers in my sig.

Whilst I would love to, I don't think I can justify £1,200 on the Transporter (Even if I could afford it at the minute I think that money would be far better off going on new speakers)

My slightly biased suggestion would be, get an SB3/Classic and use its DAC into whatever the Onkyo equivalent of stereo direct is

This is tempting but if I do go for a Squeezebox I think I will wait for the touch or at least until it is available and I can have a look at it

That said I am kind of coming around to the view that the Squeezebox will give me a more intuitive interface to my music but I don't think I am going to get any improvement in sound quality. I can't really test the quality of the analogue outputs on my soundcard as I sold all my interconnects a few years ago and everything is now digital. I will need some interconnects if I go down the Squeezebox route anyway so think this might be first step...

 

[Autopilot]

Why not buy a Classic from Amazon, try it, then return if you dont like it?

I love my Squeezebox Touch, but i wont be getting rid of my Classic any time soon.

If you have an iPhone or iPod Touch, get iPeng to controll it

 

[Stevie J B]

I think it's a risk worth taking, irrespective of the perceived sounds quality differences. It sounds like you have a setup similar to what I have, with a HTPC running the Squeezeserver (or whatever it's called now). To listen to music, you have to turn on the TV, navigate through whatever shocking music implementation the Mediaportal/XBMC software etc uses, then listen to music while keeping the TV on should you wish to change playlists.

I got a Classic a few months back, and the simple step of removing the TV from the equation is fantastic. The non-iPeng interface is superior to any HTPC software, with iPeng then offering a control option the HTPC cannot match.

The next step for me is to remove the HTPC from the equation entirely, by moving the Squeezeserver elsewhere. I'm contemplating using the Touch when it appears, but feel a home server option would be far more future proof. The Touch testers will be able to confirm, but would it be possible to control the music stored on the NAS using the server inbuilt into the Touch?

So from a useability perspective, the Squeezebox option surely has to win. Regarding the sound quality however, can't you make a simple test? If you dig out some interconnects and compare decoded sound from the Xonar with LPCM from the same card into the 876, you'll be able to gauge whether you hear any perceived difference with the differing DACs.

 

[coolio107]

The next step for me is to remove the HTPC from the equation entirely, by moving the Squeezeserver elsewhere. I'm contemplating using the Touch when it appears, but feel a home server option would be far more future proof. The Touch testers will be able to confirm, but would it be possible to control the music stored on the NAS using the server inbuilt into the Touch?

No, so far this only works with USB storage.
If you've got a HTPC anyway, why not run SBS on the HTPC and use the NAS as a storage? Usually I would assume the HTPC is faster than a NAS if it comes to acting as a Squeezebox Server.

 

[confused88]

Why not buy a Classic from Amazon, try it, then return if you dont like it?

I don't think Amazon stock the Classic anymore. They haven't for a while now and since the Touch will be a replacement for the Classic they may not bring any more units. You can still get it from the marketplace but the same return policy won't apply.

 

[Stevie J B]

No, so far this only works with USB storage.
If you've got a HTPC anyway, why not run SBS on the HTPC and use the NAS as a storage? Usually I would assume the HTPC is faster than a NAS if it comes to acting as a Squeezebox Server.

There is no doubting it's rapid, that is a major benefit.

For me though, I'm trying to build a solution that can be scaled outwards to multiple rooms and for multiple media formats. As it stands, I only have one Squeezebox, which is next to the HTPC. Turning everything on with the Harmony is simple, as the power states are known. If I moved to a kitchen-based Boom or something, which activated the HTPC via WOL, the power states of the HTPC are unknown to the Harmony. There isn't a discrete on/off, so should the gf try to watch her shows it'll turn off the HTPC, cutting music elsewhere. There are no doubt workarounds, but it's not foolproof in this setup.

My feeling is that I'd be far better suited with a form of home media server or NAS with inbuilt SBS which becomes truly detached from the HTPC. It opens up the option for multiple HTPCs (the tiny Atom boxes look fantastic) due to the networked media, and nothing I do would confuse the Harmony - literally.

 

[confused88]

By the way has anyone noticed how sluggish the volume control on the controller has become after the 7.4 update?

 

[jameson_uk]

I have seen one online for £144 (Logitech Squeezebox 3 Classic Wireless Music Player)
which seems ok but now the shiny shiny of the Touch has worn off a bit I am not sure about how the Squeezebox copes with large collections so a couple of questions if I may

1. Is it possible to browse your collection in different ways? I know you can do artist, genre and album but can you amend this (eg. use album artist instead of artist and can you add say a composer access path or list all songs added to your collection in the last 7 days?)
2. How easy is the classic to control? I am guessing that the remote is not that great for browsing a large collection but ok if you know what you are looking for?
3. Has anyone used the Windows Mobile interface (especially on a Touch HD)? I am not convinced about using my phone as a remote and do not want to fork out on an iPod Touch
4. How responsive is the system? When you press a button does it respond instantly?
5. Can you setup gapless playback?
6. Has anyone got any experience of running the server software on a Synology NAS box?