To REL or not to REL?

[Member 639844]

OK, looking for a sub to go with a new onkyo 875 and some spekers (not decided which yet).
I previously owned a REL q100E and couldn't really fault it, but its been suggested that they are overpriced and I could do better with an SVS sub or BK monolith.
Thoughts?

P.S, im looking at a set of kef 3005's for the speakers, should I go with the sub that comes with the package, or get my own as I plan to, or go for a 2 sub setup keeping the kef sub and adding a stand alone one?

Cheers.

 

[HiFiRuss71]

A better bet maybe to state a budget, room size and maximum size of sub allowable.

Russell

 

[Member 639844]

ok, budget is around £1000-1500 for all speakers
Room size is around 4 m square
Not overly worried about sub size, but I previously had a rel q100e and thats about the sort of size I'm after, but my living room is quite well set out as a cinema layout and will hide a sub reletevly easily.

 

[badbob]

I wouldn't touch Kef subs with a barge pole, PSU's are well renowned as failure. Mate has a Rel Q100E. It's rubbish compared to my 20-39 PC Plus. Similar sized room. Get the best sub you can afford..

 

[HiFiRuss71]

First off, within this budget there is nothing to be gained by subdividing the budget between two subs. You're still in the price range where jumps in price from one sub to the next one up are more significant than getting two of the cheaper one.

I've not heard the HT2B, but dealers on here who have, seem to be underwhelmed by the performance on offer. It seems to fit into the catagory of 'technologically interesting, but not actually offering something that traditional subs don't do better'.

If you can fit a Monolith in your room, then you're laughing. In raw performance terms it will slaughter a pile of Q100s or HT2Bs, but then you're comparing apples and oranges - It's onehelluva lot bigger. I'm just wondering if you realise quite how big it is?

If I were you, I'd take the discussion on the satellites to the speaker forum.

Russell

 

[Member 639844]

Im hearing alot about this monolith and have been looking up on it.
It looks ok in a black finish and to be honest the size isnt an issue, but will room placement be an issue because if it really is then size might become a factor. The one ive looked at is around £400 so the price is good leaving enough for a good set of speakers and i'm interested so long as its fine going anywhere in the room.

 

[HiFiRuss71]

All subs that produce true deep bass are positioning dependent to some degree. Some like the SVS PC (Powered Cylinders) appear to be slightly less so, but not so much less so that you can sling one against a wall and expect it to work.

The only ones that'll come close to that, produce so little real deep bass that calling them a sub would be stretching the truth. The other point is that a sub's performance is linked to the physical dimensions of the room. They give the bass it's shape and resonances and some rooms are better than others.

So, yes you can drop a sub in a room and get bass. If you want a sub that gives you more possibilities within the positions you ave available, I'd be tempted to point you at the SVS SB-12/plus in the powerbuys.

It has a number of features that are aimed at getting the best out of a room and it's output whilst not quite Monolith loud and deep, is pretty damn fearsome for a box of it's size and price. Have a look in the subwoofer forum powerbuys for the bundle deals on offer.

BTW, they're not very small, or terribly pretty, but the SVS speakers (speaker forum powerbuys) are well worth a look for the money. For that matter, so are the Cantons (also in the powerbuys) which I personally rate higher than the Kefs.

Russell

 

[Member 639844]

The above is a rough layout of my living room with possible sub posistions.
1 is facing towards me but is obviously on show
2 isnt really preferable but is a good size space
3 is the best place to hide the sub and is a large space but behind the settee

I was thinking of position 3 because the sub would be invisible, even the monolith and i'm thinking being sat right in front of it would be good, but position 1 is probably best for sound, i think.
Whats your view?

 

[HiFiRuss71]

Position 1 should be the easiest to integrate and places all 5 listening positions a decent distance from the sub.

Position 2, assuming you sit in the 2 seater probably isn't too bad either as it's broadly in the same direction as the front speakers. It won't do anybody in the three seaters any favours as they will be basically sitting next to it.

Position 3, is going to be the worst in terms of smooth integration. If you're going the small satellite route the higher frequencies comming out of the sub will sound like they're comming from behind you which is odd.

On the other hand, the sofa will buck and shake with every movie impact which is fun.

If you buy a long enough sub cable, they're all free to try, but I would expect Position 1 to offer the highest fidelity.

Russell

 

[Member 639844]

Cheers russel. I figured that number 1 would be the best, I'd gladly put it there but convincing the missus that the current space needs a monolith in it is going to take some convincing. Number 3 is the one she wants, and I considered it a good option because of the cool rumbling in your seat effect it will produce and even a monolith would be invisible here, but if its going to sound pap then I might have to consider another option (althoughI really want to try the monolith out now ).
Time for a demo I think, am I correct in thinking the monoliths are £400?

 

[Member 639844]

well its allchanged now tihs weekend. The missus had had me putting down some laminte, and has now decided she wants to swap the 2-seater and tv positions with each other, so looks like any sub will be going in position 3 now.
Are room acoustics going to be affected though do you think?

 

[HiFiRuss71]

Ok, what we have here is a situation where someone else (thinks she) is in charge. There is no reason to let her believe otherwise. What you need to do is let her settle down as to where she wants everything and then try and fit everything in around what she has already decided upon.

From there on in it is a case of, what the devious amongst us call, "equipment creep". Broadly speaking, the speakers go where they go, but as wide apart as possible/allowed. From here on, you 'creep' them toward their ideal positions an an inch or so per week.

The 'problem' subwoofer goes where ever you both agree. A few weeks down the line you simply put it where it needs to go (having experimented in advance) just before you watch a movie. After all, 'That's where it sounds best.' Having watched the movie, you try leaving it there to see if you can get away with it, but in your case you do have a sub that is small enough to move around as needs must.

The one thing I would say is that you're unlikely to hear it at it's best if your seating is against a wall. All the 'boomy' frequencies will be at their worst.

Russell

 

[Member 639844]

I know what you mean about the boomy thing, the Bose was a nightmare. The 2 seater is where I'm sitting so it does have a little space behind it. We had what you might call a discussion on the seating arrangements, I also wnated carpet but she got what she wanted and (for now) the same with the TV position.
This has given me free range to get the speaker package I want (SVS is what I'm leaning towards) as she decided only Kef's looked right, when Ive bought everything I'll have to see if I can get it setup right and work out what position works best and take it from there.
I like you r ideas on subtle location movment though, v.nice