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TMREQ Wizard graph/filter question.....

Discussion in 'TAG McLaren Audio Owners' Forum' started by PhilB1234, Jun 4, 2005.

  1. PhilB1234

    PhilB1234
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    Hi All (and particularly John!),
    I've checked the EQ sticky thread but couldn't see my question discussed so I thought I'd put it to you all....
    Much to my wife's dismay, I spent a couple of hours playing TMREQ Wizard last night to correct our room following building work that changed the shape of our listening room. Once I'd got past the problems with my PC (crashing, freezing, then Task Manager crashing!) and got the new EQ Wizard going, I was blown away by the fluidity of the system and the completeness of the processes, so thanks John!

    My results were generally good, except for a couple of channels where the response line for the speakers fell well below the target level, leaving the Wizard unable to find more than a couple of peaks to work on.

    In this situation what action should I take:
    -Manually drop the target level to include more of the 'action' in the response curve?
    -Adjust the type of signal used for setting the target in case the 'high' reading was because the upper range of the test signal came through louder, so the test signal is only <400Hz for example.
    -Use shelf filters to raise the level up (I wouldn't have thought this would be sensible!)?
    -Something else I haven't thought of?

    Any advice will be gratefully received!
    Now I know how quickly the Wizard can run and get great results, I can now happily dip back in to tweak settings..........
     
  2. JohnMulcahy

    JohnMulcahy
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    If the response is well below the target level across the whole frequency range, check that your speaker levels are set correctly. If the response drops below only at the low end of the response then that may be a consequence of the speaker positions/type/extension and you might want to move them closer to a wall or to use a shelf filter to raise the levels for a more balanced result. Which speakers were low? What did the Target level get set to? A screenshot would help with interpreting the result.

    Regards,
     
  3. PhilB1234

    PhilB1234
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    Thanks John. I'll post a screenshot shortly and work through your suggestions....
     
  4. PhilB1234

    PhilB1234
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    Hi John,
    Here's a couple of screen shots of the 'problem' channels...
    Any suggestions or guidance you can give would be much appreciated. After watching a couple of films since running Wizard for the first time I've noticed a massive improvement so I'm keen to get all channels to the same standard!!
    Hope you've had a good weekend....
     

    Attached Files:

  5. PhilB1234

    PhilB1234
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    Hi John,
    It's the centre and surr right channels that are the problems.
    I balanced the channel trims after TMREQing, was this the wrong way round? I assumed doing it afterwards would give the correct balance as each channel would be 'flatter'....
     
  6. JohnMulcahy

    JohnMulcahy
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    Those plots look OK, assuming the level continues similarly out to 1k or so. Could try a low Q (3 to 4) peaking filter with some gain at around 130-ish Hz to fill in a little of the 100-200 region on the centre channel and see how that sounds (or a thick rug might help, probably a floor dip). Setting the levels after applying TMREQ is correct.
     
  7. Plump

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    John, one question here (I have two different subs but I use only one at a time).
    With smaller sub (10") I had to increase sub level for 5dB after TMREQ, with second one (12") only for 2dB. I place them on the same position.

    Another question, I found out that SPL meter line output (either while setting target level or using calibration signal of AV32R) is 3-4dB lower than shown on the digital display. Any logical explanation?
     
  8. JohnMulcahy

    JohnMulcahy
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    Were the acoustic centres of the drive units at exactly the same place in both cases? Were you using the same corrections for both? They will not necessarily behave in quite the same way, depending on their LF tuning etc.

    Certainly not when using the cal signal as the point of the Wizard SPL cal is to produce the same reading on the SPL Meter's display and the Wizard's display! Suggest repeating the input cal on the wizard so that for a normal (i.e. not sub) speaker cal signal the readings match. Perhaps the input level control has been shifted since the cal was done?
     
  9. Plump

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    No, difference might be up to 30 cm.
    I measured them from scratch and then corrected. I was surprised that one needed bigger shift after calibration then another.

    I also find it strange, but there was no change of input level control.
    I will borrow another SPL meter from my brother in law (he has standard Radio Shack unit) and see what happens.
    Funny thing is that level shown and level output are the same on normal speakers and on the sub it gives cca 3dB less on line out than on the display.
    Can this have something to do with the nature of sub cal. signal?
     
  10. JohnMulcahy

    JohnMulcahy
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    It could be that the sound card input has a relatively high LF roll off so the signal the Wizard is seeing is reduced as a result, there is no sound card correction for the raw rms figures used when the input is a pink noise signal. I will apply sound card cal for the RTA display when I add that in though, so longer term it will probably be a better way to get the levels aligned.
     
  11. caleb

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    I have the exact opposite situation with my TMREQ graphs.

    They are all at least 15Db ABOVE the reference level.

    What should I do - just up the reference??

    RGDS
    CBW
     
  12. JohnMulcahy

    JohnMulcahy
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    Adjust the target level up to where it looks sensible, but for the graphs to be so far above the target there must be something wrong somewhere. The "Set Target Level" button generates signals at the same level as those used to make the measurements, so difficult to see how the result could be so different. Is that for all speakers? Are you using V3.22?
     
  13. Plump

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    John, tried Radio Shack SPL and it gave me the same result, so it probably will be soundcard roll-off.
    Not so important since this was only tweaking and playing around but I'll try another soundcard too, just for fun, when I get one.
    Thanks

    Caleb this offset is huge, something is definitely wrong there with levels. But it is hard to do remote help with third party setups. Hope John will come with some idea.
     
  14. caleb

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    Hi John

    Thanks for the answer - I agree that there is something not too goopd about my graphs.

    If it is not an imposition, I will PM you with what I have done so you can give me some guidance.
    RGDs
    CW
     

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