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TMREQ the easy way

Discussion in 'TAG McLaren Audio Owners' Forum' started by Emmanuel, Jul 25, 2004.

  1. Emmanuel

    Emmanuel
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    I spent the day trying to correctly setup TMREQ on my AV32R yesterday and I must say it's far from being easy. In fact the case study is so outdated that it's discouraging. It doesn't take into account the changes in the AV menus and seems to be completely unaware of the TMREQ wizard 2.1. So please, could some TMREQ expert explain the latest choices available in the AV menus and tell how to setup TMREQ using BOTH ETF and TMREQ wizard ?

    So far, here is what I've done :

    1) System calibration using the usual RS SPL meter (it seems inaccurate with low frequencies) and the AV speaker setup menu.

    2) Connecting the laptop, the USB soundcard, the mic and preamp (those sold with ETF) and the AV together following ETF's help instructions

    3) Checking the level settings as explained in the TMREQ case study

    4) Measuring the subwoofer low frequency response and save it

    5) but then ??? It looks like I can import the file in TMREQ wizard, launch the filters calculation and input the values in the AV without having to do any of the reconnections described in the case study, no ? These connections/reconnections seems to be completely useless to me, am I right ?

    6) Once the filter of the subwoofer is in place, the case study explains that we have to re-run a speaker calibration and make a SPL level calibration in ETF... Ok it's official, I'm lost ! As I don't use the SPL meter with ETF but the mic + preamp, how can I have an SPL reading here ? Do I have to use my RS SPL meter "in conjunction" with the mic + preamp ?

    Last question : In TMREQ wizard and AV menus, there are several filter types. Could someone explain them. In which case, do we use them ? Does the wizard calculate filters other than peak ones ?

    Thanks in advance for your explanations.
     
  2. lenny

    lenny
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    I'm experimenting the same problems: even the rev2 has not addressed the possibilities offered by the new wizard. The case study rev2 simply described much more in details how to make all the connections between sound card, sound meters and AV32R DP or AV192R.

    So ready to listen at all the suggestions!

    Regards,

    Lenny
     
  3. lenny

    lenny
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    I'm installing the files for the TMREQ wizard 2.21. The installation goes fine but the final file is a .jar file that my laptop refuses to read. So I cannot use the TMREQ wizard. :lease: , have you installed some kind of special software or java machine? If yes could you please tell me which one and where did you find it?
    I believe it is something dealing with java files but their site is quite confusing for someone that is not an expert in "java" :rolleyes: .

    Thank you in advance for your help.

    Regards,

    Lenny
     
  4. canavan

    canavan
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    To run the .jar, install a JRE (java runtime environment) from sun. http://192.18.97.47/ECom/EComTicket...05-oth-JPR:2/j2re-1_4_2_05-windows-i586-p.exe should do.

    The unplugging and re-plugging in the user-guide is indeed unnecesary. Since there are .etf files with all the 'ideal' responses, you don't even need the first round of measuring the output to get a reference. All other passes were for illustration only (imho) so that you get to see the effect of the filters - you don't have to do this at all if you know what to expect with a certain set of parameters with a given filter.

    With the wizard it really boils down to just one measurement, and then let the wizard do its thing - if you get the upwnload license, you don't even have to type in all the numbers with the remote. I'd still suggest doing at least one speaker by hand as outlined in the manual to get a feeling for what is going on.

    BTW, does anyone know the "official" method to enter negative values for gain in the filter setup pages? Entering (65536+10*gain) (or was the 65535?) does result in the expected negative gain value but that cannot possibly be the proper method. Has anyone else seen the wizard optimize the gain to 0.0 for some filters during Q+gain optimization? And if you have the upload license, does it really create that filter?
     
  5. Emmanuel

    Emmanuel
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  6. Emmanuel

    Emmanuel
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    Canavan wrote : "Since there are .etf files with all the 'ideal' responses..."

    Where did you find these .etf files ?

    Another question : Is it usual to find an almost flat response when measuring the speakers in "full range" mode in ETF ? In fact, the TMREQ wizard only find one peak for my center and front right speakers. It says no filter are needed for the surrounds (strange as they are close from the rear corners of the room...) and the front left. Does it mean full range measuring is useless ?
     
  7. Emmanuel

    Emmanuel
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    Lenny, where is the TMREQ wizard 2.21 available for download ? The version on IAG website is the 2.1.
     
  8. Stevesky

    Stevesky
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    Hi Emmanuel,

    Can you post your measurement plots as it sounds something isn't quite right ...

    Thanks
     
  9. canavan

    canavan
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    Christoph sent them to me. I've put them on http://filetype.org/ETFCurves_All.zip

    Are you sure you're measuring correctly? Did you go through the verification steps as described in ETF's help file?
     
  10. Emmanuel

    Emmanuel
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  11. canavan

    canavan
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    How did you export the text file from ETF? The wizard accepts only files I've exported from the Low Frequency Response view, with the "t=0ms" option. The wizard doesn't like the "system" or "ch.2 ref" formats from the Linear Frequency Response view (which isn't flat for any of the files you provided. The Wizard finds 14 peaks, and the 8 filters end up between -8.4 to -2.7db).
     
  12. Welly123

    Welly123
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    Hi Emmanuel,

    I think we should go back a little here. Your measurements look OK except that you have used the "Full Range" setting in ETF, Tag have recommended that you commence using the LF settings for TMREQ Wizard as this is the area that yields the greatest benefit.

    Either way, to use the Wizard you will need the following steps:
    In ETF; Having taken the measurements (I have used your "Center uncorrected.FR.etf" file as an example with the attached screen shots), set-up ETF with:
    1) Select "Low Frequency room response" tab
    2) Click the "Gating Control"
    3) Use a gate time of 600ms, 6 slices and 40ms slice spacing
    4) Click "update"
    5) You may want to change the scales using the "X/Y Axis limits" tab
    6) Export the data: "File" plus "Export" with "t=160ms" and a suitable name
    In TNREQ Wizard
    7) Run the Wizard and select "file" plus "import measured data", following the instructions as you go.
    8) Select the "loudspeaker" and "type" and "cutoff"
    9) Click "set target level"
    10) Click "find peaks"
    11) Click "configure filters"
    12) Click "optimise PK Gain % Q"
    13) Either download these settings to your AV (if this option is enabled) or manually enter in to the AV

    The above is the most basic method but will give a significant change compared to "no TMREQ". Of course the real fun starts when you gain confidence and start playing with the whole process.

    Regards
     
  13. lenny

    lenny
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    I'm sorry I got confused by the upgrade wizard 2.25 and I did not realized that the TMREQ wizard was a simply 2.1.

    Regards.

    Lenny
     
  14. lenny

    lenny
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    Emmanuel, Canavan,

    thank you very much, I installed the Java runtime environment and I finally managed to enter into the TMREQ wizard.

    After the vacation it will be time to start playing with it!

    Regards.
     
  15. Emmanuel

    Emmanuel
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    Thank you very much for the explanations. I'll try with your explanations next week end.
     

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