1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tivo Spam

Discussion in 'Digital TV & Video Players & Recorders' started by NJS, May 25, 2002.

Tags:
  1. NJS

    NJS
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
  2. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Shocking! :eek:

    I'm sure it won't be long before we start seeing viruses on these sorts of things as well (there was a report on the potential of this a couple of years ago).
     
  3. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
    AVForums Founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2000
    Messages:
    13,727
    Products Owned:
    6
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    Birmingham, UK
    Ratings:
    +9,402
    Well I was about to buy a TiVo. I'm not going to now.
     
  4. dUnKle

    dUnKle
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2001
    Messages:
    13,364
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,319
    Oh for crying out loud - I thought of all people Spectre you where far beyond scare mongering and idle gossip - but it seems not.

    It does appear that TIVO does indeed record programs sent to you as recommended by the TV channel, but it does not effect any Season passes or scheduled recordings you have planned.

    My box recorded Dosa and Jo this week - A friend of mines did not as it was set to record something he wanted.

    How long does it last for ? not too sure - but from what I have read it will be deleted if your box starts to run low on space.

    TIVO still remains as essential for a TV fan as a DVD player does for a movie fan - the first piece of equipment that actually warrants the monthly fee and one which deserves much more credit than it does get !
     
  5. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Even if you don't find it infringing (in the personal, not the technical sense), it's the start of a slippery slope... What next? Recording adverts and forcing you to watch them?
     
  6. dUnKle

    dUnKle
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2001
    Messages:
    13,364
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,319
    Why dont people go and find out more facts regarding this before shouting off about the system

    Apparantly this is in a trial period by the people at TIVO, it was something they where trying and the feedback they have had so far is NEGATIVE - TIVO CS have stated that if things keep going this way then it will remove the feature.

    Ok, its not the most brilliant feature they could have added but at least it shows they are continuing to try and improve the service and the features that they offer and listen to feedback from there users.

    I think that the only BAD thing about this feature is having to wait 7 days for it to self delete - if they had allowed you to delete it manually then there would be no problem.

    I, myself, hope its something that is not overused, but do feel agreaved by the number of people now slagging off a perfectly good and intrelligent service.

    Its quite funny to visit the Tivo forums to see the number of first posters ( obviously sky+ fans ) being very anti-TIVO at the mo !
     
  7. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Presumably by "people" you mean me :)

    I know everything you have said so far and I didn't make those comments flippantly, I can assure you. My point is simply that if they are trialing things like this then they will have other things up their sleeve to trial that haven't materialised yet. Both things I have mentioned (viruses and TV adverts) are things which have been discussed for a few years now. In particular, the TV adverts would be a method of funding revenue streams and so is attractive to personal recording manufacturers/service providers. And if you think it will prove unpopular and will therefore never surface... consider that it would enable the removal of the subscription fee - Tivo for free! (or whatever other brand might materialise). Now that would surely increase the user base wouldn't it?

    Of course, we always have the option to buy or not to buy as we see fit. Personally, I have never seen the need for one - and these recent events don't affect my decision either way. But I think its very interesting to see how the technology is evolving. But, more importantly, to simply not question this evolution and not be a bit skeptical is dangerous.
     
  8. dUnKle

    dUnKle
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2001
    Messages:
    13,364
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,319
    I agree - there is huge potential for TIVO to completly control what you watch - they could allow you to no longer change channels - to watch gay porn all night long and make sure your kids watch only programs with swear words that would make sailors blush - they COULD do all of that.

    I have had TIVO now for probably six months and am more than hapy with it, so I would say are the vast majority of other TIVO users.

    If they do start to take the **** with these "features" then yes I will rethink - but for the time being I do think that some people ( and no my post was never aimed at just you S G ) are being ever so slightly silly.
     
  9. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    They could... or an underground hacker intent on wreaking some havoc could... I'm sure they'd see it as quite a challenge... That's the downside of increasing functionality and communicability - it increases vulnerability.
    :)
     
  10. pointon

    pointon
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2001
    Messages:
    1,381
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Right behind you!!!
    Ratings:
    +3
    Well then I reckon I better dump my TiVo. It's an absolute fantastic piece of kit and won't be able to cope well without it; but if there's a miniscule element of risk involved from life-threatening hackers, where (shock and total horror! :eek: ) I'd have to press the off switch until TiVo HQ right a wrong they're not actually responsible for, then I'd better get rid of it quick!

    In fact I'm just going to go sit in the corner and pray some natural disaster or President Bush's itchy nuking finger doesn't get me before the TiVo hackers do!

    Damn those cavemen! They started all this with fire and the wheel!
     
  11. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
    AVForums Founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2000
    Messages:
    13,727
    Products Owned:
    6
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    Birmingham, UK
    Ratings:
    +9,402
    Hardly idle gossip and scare mongering.
    It's the principle I object to.
    I'm not spending £300 + £100 or whatever for the service so someone else can record something unrequested on it.
    This is spam and I find it grossely objectionable.
     
  12. pointon

    pointon
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2001
    Messages:
    1,381
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Right behind you!!!
    Ratings:
    +3
    It peed me off a bit at first. But it's not the end of the world. It's not as if they stopped you watching any of your own recorded programmes until you watch what they want. You still have the choice, and one choice in particular does not mean consequences.
     
  13. Rochdale

    Rochdale
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2002
    Messages:
    359
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Leeds, UK
    Ratings:
    +1
    I don't have a Tivo, but I don't think this new 'feature' would stop me buying one. Going from the information in the registers article the show is stored on a special part of the disk usually inaccessible to the owner, so it doesn't impact on your storage space. You don't have to watch it, you just can't delete it for a week, and given that deleting it doesn't free up any additional recording space that doesn't matter. It doesn't record it in preference of something you want to record, it doesn't stop you from doing anything, it just records something that someone is trying to promote.... a bit like a long advert :)

    They obviously can't record much on this small part of the disk, so you would probably only get maybe one 30 minute program in the 7 day non delete period.

    So, you watch it or you don't. It doesn't detract from the units normal functionality and you never know, you might like what it records. Surely this isn't much different from the feature that records things based on the fact that you watched something similar recently?

    For me, channel logos are far more irritating, something I really do think is spam :)
     
  14. lynx

    lynx
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,633
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    It always rains.
    Ratings:
    +301
    Ok.I'm awaiting instructions for a backdoor method of manual removal which i will post here if anyone wants it.It is not in my possession yet so i don't have the details.If you wish this let me know.I'll run it by spectre before posting.
     
  15. NJS

    NJS
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    My issues with it are thus.
    1. It's forcing something upon me that I did'nt ask for. I liken it to having a double glazing salesman force their way into your house and they can't leave for a week. No matter how much you try and ignore them it'll be there.
    2. It may use a hidden area of the disk, but what happens when this fills up? If this tactic takes off(and it will) then will this spam eat into my disk space? What takes priority, the spam or the stuff I want to watch.
    3. This is only the thin end of the wedge, once the technology works then they'll find other uses for it
    4. I also object to having a box tell the TV station what I watch and when and having no choice as to allow it or not.
    5. It has great potential for hackers/viruses to run riot(although the forcing people to watch only porn sounds like a good jape ;) )
    6. The whole point of TiVo is to allow me to watch TV how I want to watch it, if this is being restricted then it goes against the whole point of the box.
    7. At the moment it won't record spam if you're watching something. I wonder how long this 'gentlemans' approch will last?

    It's not over reaction, it's called the gradual degradation of privacy
     
  16. Bone Daddy

    Bone Daddy
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Messages:
    500
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    west midlands
    Ratings:
    +3
    Duncan & Pointon,what on earth are we up against?? we have had our Tivos for about the same time and all agree that dvd aside it`s the canine`s genatalia and completly indespensible,I mean I have not even touched my vcr since the arrival of the shiny silver box :D and as you say Pointon - it pees you off at first,but it`s not the end of the world - exactly!! and this talk of "I won`t be buying one/How dare they force this on me/It`s spam of the 1st degree,I tell you" are just downright funny after a while,it doesn`t encroach on your own hard drive space and is basically the same function as `Tivo suggestions`just placed at the menu section instead of in `now playing`if the BBC are paying,and they must be to promote their programe(even if it was crap) it is only funding the Tivo coffers,and bringing in needed revenue,seems to me much the same feature as the flashing boxes at the top of this page advertising their wares,some I really couldn`t give a stink about,but some I may check out,and I may even like them,it just means someone is promoting an item for sale or to watch,they are not forcing you to do anything you don`t want to are they :rolleyes: anyhow I am off to barricade my letterbox - don`t want that postman delivering post that may make me buy double glazing/change my credit cards for a lower apr/holidays/new car/etc :D
     
  17. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Usually when we have advertising, it pays for the product/service so that we get it for free. We don't pay for ITV, C4, C5, etc - they're free and they include advertising. We pay for BBC1, BBC2, etc and they don't include advertising - that's the benefit.

    Tivo are charging a subscription and still thrusting advertising upon their subscribers through the back door.

    And I assume from what I read in the article that Tivo subscribers were not even warned about this (please correct me if I'm wrong).

    Sounds to me like they're having their cake and eating it!
     
  18. lynx

    lynx
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,633
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    It always rains.
    Ratings:
    +301
    The following procedure should erase your unwanted recording from Tivo.It assumes you already have the latest software update.I cannot personally vouch for the hack but i'm assured it works a treat.

    1. Press TiVo, then 4
    2. Do a search for the following program "B D 2 5" (without the quotes, but remember the spaces
    3. Press Thumbs Up (you should get an on-screen message saying backdoors enabled)
    4. Press TiVo
    5. Page down to the bottom on now playing
    6. Press Thumbs down, Thumbs down, Thumbs up, instant replay
    7. Now delete all recording that are BELOW the suggestions that just showed up (you might need to press page-down to 'refresh' the list)

    regards lynx
     
  19. dUnKle

    dUnKle
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2001
    Messages:
    13,364
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,319
    Well what with being blantanly against Spectres comments im suprised this thread has not been closed and delted ! :)
     
  20. lynx

    lynx
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,633
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    It always rains.
    Ratings:
    +301
    As a point of interest, Tivo will do the same again this week. :eek:
     
  21. dUnKle

    dUnKle
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2001
    Messages:
    13,364
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,319
    Oh and that works lynx so well done mate ! now better log off the net quick before I get done by all those hackers !
     
  22. pointon

    pointon
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2001
    Messages:
    1,381
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Right behind you!!!
    Ratings:
    +3
    Or before someone tries to advertise something to you...
     
  23. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
  24. Tom Braider

    Tom Braider
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
     
  25. richard plumb

    richard plumb
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2002
    Messages:
    14,268
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Windsor
    Ratings:
    +1,014
    I find the attitudes of people to this odd. Especially those who already own TiVos.

    A lot of people used to like 'inside TiVo' when it had the Radio times information, which is basically the same stuff - BBC informing you of what it thinks you'd like to watch. But people found it helpful in case they'd missed anything good. I and many others would check 'inside TiVo' each week to set recordings from.

    This isn't much different - its just recorded a program for you. If you like it, then its there already. If not, then don't watch the damn thing!

    I'm sure some people expect TiVo to be some kind of utopian fantasy whose sole reason for being is to escape from the corporate world and never watch any adverts. But its not. People tolerate banner ads on internet pages. This is less intrusive that that IMO, as the information isn't in your face.


    The only changes I'd make are the following:

    - Only family friendly content
    - change channels back to where it was before recording the promo (for those who like to leave the digibox on a particular channel)

    Other than that I don't have any problem with this.
     
  26. lynx

    lynx
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,633
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    It always rains.
    Ratings:
    +301
    richard, you have a relaxed attitude towards this type of interference which is comendable.Some find it an unnessesary intrusion whereby the choice is being taken away from you and controled by a third party.It's the principle.My view is, this is something to be resisted from the outset.
     
  27. pointon

    pointon
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2001
    Messages:
    1,381
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Right behind you!!!
    Ratings:
    +3
    In hindsight, after owning a TiVo for quite a while now, if I'd let this insignificant piece of no-news stop me from buying a TiVo, I'd regard myself as a rather daft **** (or more so).

    It makes no difference to the use of a TiVo. Whatsoever. Anyone with such strong principles on advertising and spam, is either a total hypocrite or lives in a single room wearing nothing but old potato sacks.

    When I'm strapped down by guys in white coats and forced to watch this stuff without choice, I might start moaning.

    Until then, if you're going to be put off TiVo by this, then it is your loss. And it is a great loss. And totally unnecessary.
     
  28. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
    AVForums Founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2000
    Messages:
    13,727
    Products Owned:
    6
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    Birmingham, UK
    Ratings:
    +9,402
    Pointon, having made my views clear, I'll take your comments as a direct personal insult. It seems that owning a TiVo already is clouding your judgment.
    It is now that we have to raise objections to this kind of intrusion. Let it go on unopposed and the people doing it will think it's fine.
    Imagine if you were sat in your living room with the TV off. Would you accept it if the BBC turned your TV on and changed to a program they want you to watch?
    Would you accept it if they made your VCR start recording a program?
    Would you accept it if they made your AV system turn on and started playing music?
    TO me it's all the same kind of intrusion. Controlling YOUR equipment for THEIR gain even after you've paid for it.
     
  29. dUnKle

    dUnKle
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2001
    Messages:
    13,364
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,319
    Well if Spectre said so it must be true.... mines up for sale as we speak and I have nailed down the letter box too !!
     
  30. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    It's not about being true or untrue. It's about what some people will tolerate and what others will not.

    Isn't it better to discuss the issue rather than ignore it (or have a pop at everyone who holds an opposite view)? :rolleyes:
     

Share This Page

Loading...