Question Time for a new TV

SadEffedTVGuy

Novice Member
Hi, new member here with what I'm sure is the most asked question on this board. Look like it's time for a new TV, as my old one has developed an issue I'm not capable of fixing (and is probably not worth the money to have professionally done, as this TV is around 13 years old.

So, I'm looking at what's out there, and of course it's overwhelming, with all the review sites with their own recommendations, and who knows who they're all "sponsored" by.

The TV I now is 42", fine for watching, not so great for gaming from that distance. I'm thinking 55" is a good size for a new one, as I sit about 11 feet from the screen. Also I have a custom built (handy girlfriend) table the stand rests on that is 48" wide, so stand footprint can't be wider than that.

I wanted to stay under $1000 (preferably way under. I got my --in my opninion-- sweet Panasonic Viera plasma for around $800 back in 2007 or 8, I would assume there's good stuff for that price these days). I guess OLED is the thing now, but most of those are pricey unless they come with severe compromises (Samsung Q60, from what I've read) that might make an LED the better deal at that price point. Viewing angle can be narrow, it'll just be me or possibly me and the aforementioned girlfriend, no superbowl parties here. Would like nice color and even illumination (I understand the FALD/full array is the way to go here, rather than edgelit or the in-between one), good HDR performance apparently important.

As I mentioned, I do play games and the idea of blurs or trails on movement doesn't sound very appealing, so 120 hz seems like something I'd want.

The one thing I don't care much about (at least I think) is how "smart" it is...I have a PS4 and can do the apps from there if necessary, or mirror from computer, iphone, etc.

So...why are the choices/compromises, given all that? What are some models to agonize over? Any way to get older models from a year or two ago at reduced prices that would be worth it (but somewhere with a warranty/guarantee, not just off of Craiglist etc.)?

Thanks.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
The Samsung Q60R is an LCD TV marketed as a QLED. It's not a different technology like OLEDs are and carries the same pros and cons as other mid range LCD TVs.

Certainly if you want the best dimming and the least amount of motion blur going for an OLED is the way to go, the cheapest will be the LG B9, but possibly with the new 2020 CX range, the C9 may also drop in price nearer to your budget. Most people prefer the transition from a Plasma TV to an OLED rather than LCD too.

LCD technology is older, and does carry its benefits, but its not really something that has developed considerably since you made your decision to purchase a Plasma TV over one years ago. The basic shortfalls of LCD compared to OLED today exist much the same as they did between LCD and Plasma back in the day!

Of course a TV like the LG B9 is at the top end of your budget, and it's certainly worth stretching for. However if you wanted an LCD TV instead, then I'd consider first the Samsung Q80R, second the Vizion Quantum P series, and last the Sony X950G. Those models are the best alternatives to an OLED TV.

Unfortunately in the US prices seem to have inflated drastically because of the pandemic, so you may find these TVs are still a little overpriced now compared to how they were a few months ago. If you are in the unfortunate situation of needing to buy now you may have to drop a tier down and look at the Sony X900F or Samsung Q70R instead, both also good TVs for the money, but a couple of notches down in HDR picture quality compared to other options, and quite a distance in quality from an OLED.

If you were to buy second hand, there are also TVs from 2018 and even 2017 ranges that are good HDR TVs. Any OLED released in the last 3 years would be a good option, as would a higher end LCD such as the 2017 Sony X900E, the X930E or even the Samsung Q8FN or Q9FN from 2018. There's a host of higher end Vizio TVs too that are well regarded in the past few years.
 

SadEffedTVGuy

Novice Member
Good to know about those models. I had read that there's a certain "crossover" point where the lower end OLEDs and the higher-end LEDs are comparable. I did know that QLED and OLED aren't the same, but I forgot I knew when I wrote that.

Looking some of those up that you mention above, I notice sometimes the model numbers jump around when you change sizes (going from 65", the seeming default for everything--why? Isn't that frikkin huge? Maybe just for my room). For instance that Quantum P becomes Quantum M on Best Buy's site when I go to 55", if I search for Quantum P 55 inch I get "no longer available". Not sure if that's just a naming thing or if I'm now looking at a new model with different features/specs.

Also looks like the Q80Rs are MORE expensive than the LG B9, unless I missed something.

How do we feel about open box? I see Best Buy has a few open box LG B9s for significantly reduced prices.

Yeah, it's one of those situations that escalated suddenly. My Pana plasma has been doing this thing for a while now where the bottom half of the screen goes black. Started as a minor flicker, became progressively worse to where it spends most of its time solid black. Yesterday went from being an intermittent problem to where it's basically unwatchable.
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
No the Vizio P series quantum is 65"+ only sorry. The other 2019 Vizio models don't really make the mark with HDR as they don't have high enough peak brightness so they shouldn't be considered.. Although the previous P series available at 55" in 2018 is a good HDR TV.

Prices are in all honesty all over the place right now. It would be easier if I could get some kind of price trend graph to demonstrate, but a TV like the Q80R should not be more expensive than the LG B9 OLED. Apart from the pandemic its the time of year 2020 model lines are being released, so usually it's a very good time to buy as retailers try to ship out older stock in favor of new.

If the Q80R is as expensive as the LG B9 it doesn't represent good value at all, normally it would be around $200 or so less.

A quick search online shows good prices for the Sony X950G and X900F so they may be better options in the current climate.

As for the open box deals, well provided the TVs come with a return policy (and its possible to return right now) and with the standard manufacturer warranty I see no reason why it wouldn't be worth considering. Sometimes you can get unlucky if they haven't noticed something when testing, but its often worth the saving those deals can give. Best Buy is a reputable store, so no worries there as long as you know their return policy.
Good to know about those models. I had read that there's a certain "crossover" point where the lower end OLEDs and the higher-end LEDs are comparable. I did know that QLED and OLED aren't the same, but I forgot I knew when I wrote that.
I don't think there's really ever a point they can be compared because they are just different technologies. The pros and cons of an OLED compared to an LCD TV today though aren't too different to when you compared LCD TVs to your Plasma. They, like Plasma TVs do not have motion blur like LCD TVs do and they do not rely on any form of backlight shining from behind the TV and can light the picture instead pixel by pixel rather than battling with which parts of the TV are bright and which are dark (typically higher end LCD TVs can only do this per a number of zones behind the TV, and not by each pixel). They have better viewing angles and on an OLED the picture is a lot more refined, generally most people agree they offer a lot more picture quality all round than LCD TVs do.

Where LCDs carry an advantage is in bright conditions, where you can't really take advantage so much of OLED strengths, so they are best suited for people who prefer to always watch during the day, or with lights on.
 

SadEffedTVGuy

Novice Member
Ok thanks. Lookin' like Best Buy open box is the best bet right now.

Is there anywhere to look for those older model OLEDs, but in new condition? Or is that hoping for too much. I saw Slickdeals recommended online; they don't seem to have much now. Or secondhand sources you would trust?

I do tend to watch with an overhead light on but it's never bothered me with plasma, even during day with sun coming through windows. Are we saying OLEDs are "darker" than plasmas are/were? I don't have the brightness on mine jacked way up or anything.
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
I do tend to watch with an overhead light on but it's never bothered me with plasma, even during day with sun coming through windows. Are we saying OLEDs are "darker" than plasmas are/were? I don't have the brightness on mine jacked way up or anything.
No quite the opposite, they are a lot brighter. They still suffer from ABL though, so when there are scenes with a lot of brightness on the TV at the same time they will lower brightness, for example if you are watching a Hockey game, winter olympics or a snowy documentary. But even then the brightness on an OLED should at least be 2x brighter and normally they will be 3-4x brighter. They have good anti reflective properties too.

If you have been fine with your Plasma, you'll definitely be more than okay with an OLED.

As for second hand deals Mercari and eBay may have some listings, local listings through craiglist sometimes have some gems, but you'll want to be in a position where you can view the TV before you buy on craigslist to ensure you're happy and in the case of OLED, there's no screen burn.
 

SadEffedTVGuy

Novice Member
Thanks. I would probably avoid Craigslist, but will look at the others.

I have noticed the model numbers are not quite as simple as it seems they should be...you Google “LG B9” and you get something with a B9 maybe buried in there somewhere and wonder if this is the right thing, and the aforementioned issue with models apparently changing with size. It can be hard to tell if I’m looking at the thing I think I’m looking at. On the other hand, if you look up the long gibberish model name, it’s hard to find opinions/reviews because those are under the “cleaned up”/shorter version of the name.
 

SadEffedTVGuy

Novice Member
Good to know. Is that across all the different manufacturers (or at least the major ones) does each have their own quirky thing?
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Yeah they can all be different, Vizio are probably the most confusing. Best to treat each TV as being in a certain 'range' rather than exact differences.

Sony is XBR-55X950G but the range is X950G

XBR - LCD models.
55 - size.
X950 - X means UHD model, X950 in total is the range.
G - year of release.
 

thedoswells

Well-known Member
What about the notorious burn in issue with OLEDs?
hi
how would you break down your viewing, in terms of hours per day for general viewing, gaming etc?
if it’s fairly average and viewing is mixed you shouldn’t have any issues with a modern oled like the c9, which would be a fantastic choice imho...
 

SadEffedTVGuy

Novice Member
It can be a few hours (3) to quite a bit more, erring on the fewer side.

I also meant to ask about lifespan, there are both reports of the OLEDs needing to be replaced much more frequently and competing reports of that being hooey
 

thedoswells

Well-known Member
If you vary your content, and avoid things like leaving content paused for long periods then the c9 should be fine for many years...
 

SadEffedTVGuy

Novice Member
Ok thanks. I think I mentioned before I got more than 10 years out of ol' plasma. Be nice to get the same out of the next one. I guess I would take the hit on quality if LED/QLED has a longer lifespan than OLED. I know some folks are trying to keep up with the latest everything...I probably would have been happy even now with a bigger HDTV (if I'd bought one back in the day-- 42" is a little small for this place and I notice certain new games have an unsolvable picture cropping problem). I would go 4k now cause it seems silly not too, but I'm not really worried about being "left behind" if/when 8k or 16k becomes the norm, just want something that lasts quite a while.

Re-reviewing the picks you initially told me, Q80s are more expensive (by quite a bit) than the refurbed C9, Quantum P doesn't exist under 65" (too small for the space I have to fit it in I would think--a 67"-wide sliver of wall between two doors, plus the stand needs to fit on a 48" table), The quantum M series, its predecessor, at least according to Rtings, is not nearly as nice. and X950G is same price as refurbed C9.
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
You probably know this already but the size of TVs is measured in diagonal, not width. So if you have a 67" space you definitely have more than enough room for a 65" TV. A 65" model at most will be 58" inches wide.

If you look at sizes that are commonly bought today, especially in the US 65" is definitely the way to go if you can fit it, many people are even going larger. If you go a size up now, you are unlikely to regret it sooner like you did with your Plasma.

Regarding the life of the TV, there's nothing to suggest an OLED will last for a shorter amount of time compared to an LCD TV or a Plasma. The very same argument that was against Plasma TVs back in the day is the same now with OLEDS and that is you musn't use them with a lot of static material. If your usage is varied and you understand the kind of content that puts you at risk, there shouldn't be a problem.

Regarding the stand, it may be hard to get measurements on TVs that have the two wide feet style stand, but you can always fit a universal central stand to any TV, or mount it to the wall. You could also further narrow choices down to only TVs using central stands.
 

SadEffedTVGuy

Novice Member
Good to know about burn-in, etc.

OK. So there are third party stands? Wall mounting is probably out. I don't want to deal with the hassle, and I may I have mentioned table was custom made for me.

I do know size is measured diagonally, I'm just eyeballing how 65" would be approximately 50% larger than my 42", and how that would look in the space. I guess I could estimate better by looking up the actual length/width (whatever they call the longest dimension) of the various models and get a better idea of what would fit. I also don't like the idea of having to look side to side to take in the whole picture. Not sure how far back from a 65" one has to sit for that not to be an issue. Someone in another thread mentioned 7'.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
You could use some tape, or create a template of different TV sizes to place where the TV will go. I made the jump from a 42" to a 65" and wish I had bigger.

Its a personal thing of course, but with UHD TVs you really need a much bigger TV to take advantage of the extra detail.

In my time posting/helping people on here I've seen one, maybe two people feel they have bought a TV that is too big compared to many who wished they had bought the size up.

The universal stands you can buy just fit to the rear VESA wall mounting holes of the TV. The only things you have to make sure when buying is 1. The size of the stand is suitable for the TV, usually the stands will mention 'up to 65' or up to '55'. 2. The maximum rated weight of the stand. Usually this isn't a problem nowadays because modern TVs are much lighter. 3. The VESA dimensions match that of the TV. You can find out these dimensions on the manufacturers website, sometimes the store website and in the TV manual. You then have to check the proposed stand fits the same dimension holes as the TV. The stands will usually be universal and adjustable, but should mention which dimensions they support.

Apart from the actual mounting on wall bit, the process is much the same as when buying a wall mount.
 

SadEffedTVGuy

Novice Member
Clever idea about the tape. I'll look into rigging something up.

I see what you mean about appreciating the extra detail of 4k, but I would think at this point it would be almost more trouble to NOT buy a 4k TV, correct (especially if higher end LED or OLED--which I believe only comes in 4k)? So, even if I can't really see the detail, it's still there.

Looks like some of the models at least (I looked up the Q80r) have the actual included stand dimensions as well.
 

SadEffedTVGuy

Novice Member
And I guess my last question, for a while, would be is it worth waiting til a big sale period (I've read up and Memorial Day is not supposed to be great, I guess Black Friday would be next one), vs the kinds of deals I could find now if I got a refurb/open box etc.? If it's just a few hundred off regular price might as well just wait for a deal and buy when I'm comfortable, I would think. A friend came through with a 32" (I know, sigh) Samsung he didn't need so I have something at least for now.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
You can still buy HD models, but only at smaller sizes now.

As for when to buy, it depends what you buy I guess, if you are wanting to buy a 2020 model new then waiting for Black Friday is a good idea as its generally the first time newly released models are discounted, but if you plan to buy refurbished, or a 2019 model new, around now will be the best time to buy.

This is the normal pattern to things anyway. I think the pandemic has pushed prices up temporarily which may mean some 2019 models stick around a little longer. Either way waiting is probably a good idea if you want to buy an OLED or Samsung LCD new, since those are presently pretty overpriced new. I'd be expecting to see discounts with the Samsung Q80R and LG B9 being around the $1000/1100 mark presently, but they haven't dropped that far.

The only concern with all of these price trends is economics. Who knows what may end up happening in the long term, with many countries going into recession buying a new TV could be more expensive in the future compared to now.
 

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