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TI HD3 1080p

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by gandley, Jan 9, 2004.

  1. gandley

    gandley
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    Just as it seems i had made up my mind on the marantz s3, TI go and announce there new chipset at this years cedia.

    Looks like we can expect proper high def projectors this fall along with HDMI switching amps.
    Not that we have Hidef but with HDDVD production expected early 2005 the timing looks good.
    (toshiba already have machine in pre production form which is backwards compatable with exsisting DVDs)
     
  2. buns

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    wonder how much these HD3's will actually cost? And whether there is any point given the HD3x (or whatever it is called) seems to be a jump to a new scheme as oppose to a step up the old one.

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  3. Messiah

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    Problem is though by the time a bug free reasonable cost one is available there will be talk of the HD4 or whatever. I guess the only real benefit is the certainty that HD2+ pjs will fall in price when the HD3's are launched.

    Making me wonder but don't think I'll cancel my S3 as this is a good 12 months+ away. If we kept waiting no one would ever buy a new car or whatever. Also, as you say I doubt there will be that much hi-def material available by then apart from Euro 1080i.

    This hobby gets tougher and tougher :(
     
  4. gandley

    gandley
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    well i guess cheap is not a word youl find on the box of one of these.
    probaly the cheapest will be about £5000 and top out at £13000.

    Good news for those who plan to get a HD2+ machine as prices will soon start to fall. and by all account do we need more than 720p right now
     
  5. tbrar

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    Like you Messiah, Im staying with the S3 that is on order. Ill look towards a 1080 DLP (or alternate tech) perhaps second generation into their launch.

    Realistically this is at least eighteen months away and TBH I dont think I have owned a display for any where near that long before looking to upgrade (apart from my portable CRT TV !! :eek:)
     
  6. gandley

    gandley
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    Does that mean tbar the benq will be up for sale soon
     
  7. tbrar

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    Gandley, I had some issues with the BenQ 8700, described in this thread, hence I am PJ less at the minute :( . The S3 was ordered just after Christmas/New Year, and I am now being told to expect delivery by the end of the coming week :).
     
  8. gandley

    gandley
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    Well the S3 makes for a great choice. im not sure to wait to see how things pan out or if i should just stick my order in for the S3 and be done with it. its the best PJ on the block at the mo.
     
  9. tbrar

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    From my perspective, I havnt got a PJ at the moment, though I have a small room thats been set aside, completely re-decorated etc for a home cinema set up based upon a PJ (Ive even put some Aurolex accoustic treatment to cut down on reflections. As a side note a very good investment for people with smallish rooms - certainly improved my sound by some margin) .

    My choices are to by a lesser PJ now, then upgrade to the first lot of HD3/HD3x when released. Or, get a better PJ now, enjoy that for the next eighteen or so months and then look to upgrade with the second generation of 1080p PJ's (HD4 ??), i.e. with incremental improvments over the first generation, or what ever else happens to be the leading technology at the time.

    My favoured option is the latter, but as I say I havnt got a projector at the moment ....just a room sat there waiting.
     
  10. gandley

    gandley
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    well the later does make sense because maybe then there will be enough Hi-def material to warrante the purchase to a 1080p capable PJ.
    if we lived in the usa maybe it would be better to wait.
     
  11. keyser

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    I think a TI guy stated at CES that there will be no PJ with the xHD3(1080p) this year.

    But maybe we´ll see HD3 ones? I´d also think that the improvement from the HD2+ to the HD3 might be very small(the samsung RPTV´S only has contrast of 1500:1).
     
  12. Messiah

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    Like tbrar I'm sticking with the S3. Decision helped of course by the sale of my Z10 but I too will look to jump again when we are on the second iteration (all bugs ironed out). Without decent HD source material (HDDVD, HD Sky - ha ha!) a xHD3 pj will be rather wasted, IMO.

    Having seen an S3 I know I can live with it for the next 2 years (famous last words :) )

    gandley - just get the S3 and enjoy it. If you keep waiting you'll never buy a HD3 cos then the HD4 will be talked about and you'll end up with nothing (other than a bigger bank balance or more clothes and shoes in the other half's wardrobe :D )
     
  13. buns

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    i dont know TI would necessarily be able to say if there will be a xHD3 out this year..... not only is it not their business to say (unless they are going to be the manufacturer) but it also will take away from sales of the HD2+....... plus, they cant possibly know what all the manufacturers are going to do. I think they are likely just being safe

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  14. gandley

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    Buns i agree with you totaly. they wouldnt say a pj is due to hit the market in six mths as this would freeze sales of the hd2+ machines.
    the samsung model is only 1500:1 because they are pushing brightness higher as this is an rptv and is used in brighter conditions.
    also intel say there lcos chip cost will bring set prices down to below $2000 and will also be native 1080p. so it looks like lcos FP`s will cost about $2-3000.
    Also as weve seen before quite often the new chip can be just dropped in to current hardware.(no less than a 7 segment wheel in this case mind).

    also with the saved 7 grande i could partx my beemer and get an e46 m3. tuff god dame choice
     
  15. buns

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    or with your 7k you could buy a sharp 10k and buy dillard to control it ;) I get the impression alot of 10k owners could be surprised by this upgrade :D

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  16. tbrar

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    ...... or, as I am doing, buy one of the best home cinema projectors available today and enjoy !!:D

    Also there seems to be some debate as to what actual improvements there are from HD2+ to HD3. Interesting post here
     
  17. buns

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    :( some of us cant afford the best!

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  18. Paul D

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    Fall?

    You mean Autumn...:rolleyes:

    Your getting worse than me for hanging around the US AVS forums!:devil: :rotfl: :devil:
     
  19. tbrar

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    Ad, my statement wasnt saying everyone could/would/should.

    My statement concerns the choice that I and couple of other members on this thread are facing. Either buy the S3 now, or wait for a 1080p projector, whether xHD3 or otherwise.

    Or as you put it, spend the £7k on a Sharp 10K and Dillard ....
     
  20. gandley

    gandley
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    you get some great info from the USA avs forums, a little ahead of us i think.

    Also what the fudge is Dillard.(there was one in my class at uni)
     
  21. buns

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    Dillard is a bit like colorfacts. It is a projector specific automatic calibration system. Until recently, it has been exclusively for dila, but there are editions in the pipeline for various other types, the 10k being one of them.

    What it does..... it measures your devices response such as its greyscale tracking, then (i think) it connects directly to the projector and brings about changes which reflect how good or bad the measurements were. So basically it calibrates the projector for you. Whether it is as good as would be achieve using a manual system like colorfacts, i dont know. You would have to talk to Milori about that.

    I also think there is the additional benefit that dillard would allow you to control the projector with your pc, if thats your sort of thing!

    At way under $1k, it seems like a small price to pay on top of something like a 10k.

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  22. Messiah

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    The 10k already has the SharpVision Manager which I think allows you to connect your PC to the pj to control it.

    And of course the S3 comes with it's onw automatic calibration unit :)
     
  23. Paul D

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    The S3 comes with an auto calibration lens cap as standard.:smashin:

    (edit)oops Messiah beat me to it!!!
     
  24. buns

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    well dillard is better than the automatic thing on the S3 then..... one of the biggest influences on you picture is the room, the use of a lens cap wont account for this!

    so in which case dillard simply is a calibrator on your 10k, id certainly see this as worthwhile! :D

    anyhow, sorry for the deviation from topic

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  25. gandley

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    oh i see, thanx for the explanation.
     
  26. tbrar

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    On the HD2+/HD3/xHD3, there seems to be some interesting thoughts regarding the relative merits of each, within this post . At the end of the day, its all speculation at the minute, interesting never the less ...
     
  27. Aero

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    hi!

    Smoothpictures, It might be reduction of the grains on the DMD using the Al alloy. Using different techniques and temperatures under the diffusion reduce this. Atlest that was my impression of the course i took last year at Chalmers University here in Sweden, but don't take it too serious, i did felt asleep during the lessons sometimes :D

    I don't think they have reduced the inter pixel gap over 88%, so as I see it seems to be some multicoatings diffrence or alloy diffusions that makes e surface on the DMD less rough.....well....Ti says smoooooootthh.

    However, reduce that => reduce light scattering, i.e togheter with VIA fix, could archive much higher CR att the chip. Apply iris and bulb voltage difference will increase this ofcourse even more.
    Also, do you think the 1080p would be for 1 chip DMD ?

    Dosen't seems too smart realese 1chip 1080p and 720p(1080p) 3DMD. yeah, sure, you don't get any rainbows and higher bits for color/grayscale etc. But for 30-40K i think 98,99% would stick with 1 chip.

    Seems to me that next 1chip will use the HD3 (if possible with that diagonal size) for equal performence to HD2+ but better price/performence ratio. And the xHD3 dedicated to the 3DMD.

    Yeah, HTPS LCD might change al this ofcourse with panasonic AE700 1080p coming at the end of 2004 =)
     
  28. tbrar

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    Aero, thanks for that. So you think that the xHD3 will be limited to 3 Chip DLP's ?
     
  29. Aero

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    Tbrar,

    Dunno knows that. But the 1080p is the holy grail in US and Asia,
    There are people choosing 1366*768 res ONLY because HDTV looks somewhat better on that. And that's imply at currently needs to changes display technology. If not buying Cinema 2K and 4K DMDs ...huh

    It will compete with Qualia, JVC and well Intel. Some might think
    Intel will release a 1080p projector for 3k-5k. Sorry, this isn't a charity bussniess. Besides that ,Ti speaks with Intel, wich spekas with JVC and Sony etc.

    I mean if thay do release both 3DMD 1080p and 1chip 1080p. Heck, the marketing need to be.... using higher internal bits precsion, somehat brigher, although
    TI reference 3chip optics requires quite alot from a arc bulb.
    And ofcourse free from Chroma separations,
    although TI can't say that in that terms...."Well no more rainbows" =)

    But look, approach this from an error analysis standpoint or atlest give it a try
    if one assume there is sufficient internal precision in the filters,
    each video filter in the chain is going to add half ulp (units)
    of distributed error.It makes even worse if you are using FIR or gain filters like resize, smooothing, DNR etc. Errors that will accumulate to an approximate normal distribution with the sum of the total variances from each filter. That means after applying 6-10 filters you have an average standard deviation 1.3 bits error

    Not significant if your analog error is already 2.5 bits and especially insignificant if one or more of the filters is noise reduction filter widly used in thoose DVD players and internal projectors

    To use higer precistion like 16-bit components
    is that you need the extra precision on the low end to be
    able to produce full 8-bit gamma corrected output!!

    So if you don't have problems with rainbows and you can live with the (in comaprision) small 1 chip 1080p.

    I don't see any market (at consumer level) for 3DMD. IF they didn't have the advantage of being 1080p


    I hope i am Allllll wrong, so we all can enjoy Euro1080/Wm9/H.264
    or whatever in true HD at 3K at the end of THIS year, right ?!
     
  30. ReTrO

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    The z9000 comes with SharpVision, the z1000 has the gamma curve adjustment built in, which the z9000 didn't. I've not seen any software for the z10000, but then I haven't had the need to look for any.

    RE: 1080 D-ILA, JVC Pro had mentions of it on their stand over at CEDIA USA last year, so I would expect that to be in the next generation of their projectors.
     

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