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This upscaling downscaling lark

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by rafaqat, Oct 9, 2004.

  1. rafaqat

    rafaqat
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    I'm looking atbuying a 42" plasma. Most of the ones I have looked at have a res of 852 x 480. Now they claim to handle 720p and 1080i.

    I realise that a TV will upscale and downscale to its native resolution.
    What I'm intersted in is

    (a) What resolution DVD's output at if the DVD player is prog scan compatible (I assume it'll be 480p?)

    (b) If a game console game can be run at 720p or 480p, then it'd be better to run at 480p as it'll downscale anyway and display exactly the same picture?

    (c) Would a sensible solution at this stage be to buy a plasma that does 720p at its resolution hence when 1080i is used more it'll not have to downscale so drastically and 480p content will just need to be upscaled?

    I have Ntl digital and have no idea what there future plans are for HDTV, I play a fair amount of console games on a US GameCube, a chipped Xbox and a PAL Playstation 2. I intend to used the chipped XBox as a prog scan dvd player. I've been told that the DVD player software can be set to output in 720p.

    I've also been told that dispaly that have a higher native res tend to have to upscal lower res images more and so can sometimes come out with a worse picture than a plasma that has a lower native res. Is this right?

    I think what I'm trying to ask is, am I going to be left with a dud if I buy a plasma that does 852 x 480 natively? My budget is under 2K. That'd have to include all the inputs I need (component, scart, svideo). Not bothered too much about a stand as I intend to wall mount. So far the LG RZ-42PX11 looks like a good bet, Currys are doing it for £1599 on their website and I've been to look at it in store (not the best connection though, usual case with Currys).
     
  2. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    if you have £2k to spend there is one Higher def plasma in your price bracket... an NEC unit other wise you have the very popular Panny PW6/7 the new LG and the others not really worth bothering with....... (Ignoring Alis screens at this point....)
    So choice is Panny best alrounder.......
    LG more connections as standard for same money IMO not as good...
    NEC not much info but a possibility...
    Hitachi..................Alis (have a search)
     
  3. kirakira

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    Plasma HD resolutions does make the picture clearer in HD but it also make things worse for SD material since scaling occurs where as ED plasmas does not have to scale at all since their NR is the exact res of SD material. Although the 6th gen and later Panas have very good scalers that will minimise this impact of scaling SD material.

    Also higher res doesn't improve HD material by leaps and bounds, it does show more detail but some people find its not worth the premium.

    In addition, 42" HD have a problem of elongated pixels, i.e. the pixels are oblong instead of perfectly square shaped which is a problem if you want to use the panel as a computer monitor since everything will be squash at NR. 1024x768 is 4:3 and not 16:9 ratio. The only fix for this is to get a 50", which usually has 1366x768, an exact 16:9 ratio but that's another big jump in price tag.

    I'd personally lean towards a SD for 42" at the moment. They still display fantastic HD images.
     
  4. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Got to disagree with KiraKira. Our UK tv system and our R2 DVD's have a higher resolution than SD plasma. Good upscaling of SD material can actually look better than downscaling or non-scaling.

    Intelligent interpolation of SD images can create detail that was not in the original source but that was probably in the original image that was trying to be captured by the film or video camera. Whether you like that is something else of course.

    Well that's my opinion anyway. However in the price bracket you have you've got limited choice. Go view the ones you are interested in before purchase and be aware that plasma is possibly not the best choice of display technology if you do alot of gaming. Extended playing of games with static sections of screen material is not going to be good for your plasma. LCD might be a better bet but I have no-idea whether any are within the budget or are going to offer good enough picture quality for you.

    Gordon
     
  5. rafaqat

    rafaqat
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    Yeah the Panny PW6 looked like a contender.....until I realised that it doesn't come with speakers or connections as standard.

    To get what I need I'd need to buy the Panny, one extra input board, speakers and the table top stand or the wall mount

    Total for that lot is:
    Panny: £1686
    Speakers: £233
    Wall Mount / Table Stand : £100 -ish
    Scart Terminal Board: £134
    Component Terminal Board: £115

    Total - £2268

    In comparison the LG is for £1650 inc. delivery and includes all I need.
    Shall I pay £600 pound extra for a better picture? Prolly not. When people refer to SD plasma they mean ones that do 480p natively right?
    The comment about plasmas not being suitable for gaming is a little worrying though. How long does an image have to be on the screen to cause burn in? I play games in 1/2 - 1 hours bursts max. Would this be enough to bugger up a screen?
    What happens with things like Sky and NTL where the channel has it's logo in the top corner of the screen pretty much permanently? Doesn't that **** things up too?

    Many thanks on the advice given so far. I'm off to go look at the NEC as well that has already been mentioned. Model number?
     
  6. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I think that 1/2 to 1 hr at a time should be ok. You are likely to find image retention straight afterwards but it'll go pretty fast after watchng some programming from normal TV or video afterwards. I am so paranoid that I very rarely play my xbox on mne anymore as I get so in to a game that I forget how long I've been playing......

    Gordon
     
  7. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    ZedZed is the man who researched the NEC and decided on the Panny...... drop him a PM or search under his name.... Plasma speakers are pretty ropey why not spen £200 on a decent stereo system or £500 on entry level surround sound?
    Also Why the scart board????? Xbox Ps2 and Game cube are all component capable...
    and Sky ntl can be sent to VGA input Via JS BOx (component can also be sent VGA input)....
     
  8. rafaqat

    rafaqat
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    What's a JS Box?
    Is that like a scart to VGA type adpater?
    I have a VHS video that uses scart .

    Yes, I suppose the surround sound system type solution would be better way to go.
     
  9. LV426

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    To see one possible effect of upscaling - the picture on the RIGHT is the original. The picture on the LEFT is upscaled 4x in both directions.

    On the right hand one, there's no possibility that you might read the words on the flag; you might not even know they are words. On the left - you begin to get an impression of what it may say.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    http://www.js-technology.com/ for JS boxes
    and for surround sound something like this:http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/product_detail.jsp?product_id=8389&taxonomy_id=62-98
    And how about these?
    http://www.canton.de/www/index.php4?pg_id=14,30,moviecd1,2,en
    OR these:
    http://www.mission.co.uk/index1.htm

    VHS outputs Composite video...... S-VHS decks output S-video, Sky boxes output composite and RGB, DVD can output all of these and normally component..... Component is best then RGB then S-video then composite which is no good for large screens (28" PLUS)

    PS scart is just a cable......... that can carry Video audio and data
     
  11. grahamtriggs

    grahamtriggs
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    Comet is £1599 online with free delivery. 247electrical has it at £1499.98 including delivery.
     
  12. grahamtriggs

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  13. rafaqat

    rafaqat
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    hmmm. Sweet. I also notice that the LG 42PX12 seems to do 1024 x 768 and it's only £1788. Maybe I should look into that one. Anyone got any opinions?
     
  14. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    worth going to see..... see if you can get a side by side with a panny SD unit
     
  15. rafaqat

    rafaqat
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    Yes, I guess the only way to decide is to see these things in action myself while they're connected up properly. I get embarrassed though cos I feel I'm wasting the sales persons time if I'm not going to buy that day.

    I'll have a scout around and see if I can find a decent place that'll demo me some plasma in or near Leeds city center.

    One question that no-ones answered so far.
    How do people avoid screen burnn when watching sKy or NTL when the channels have therir logo permanently in the top corner of the screen?
     
  16. lmccauley

    lmccauley
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    I have no problems with screen burn on my Panny 6, even after playing Halo or PGR2 for a couple of hours.

    Cheers,
    Liam
     
  17. Mr. Wilby

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    Nice demo Nigel. Certainly back's up what Gordon said!
     
  18. zedzed

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    The NEC plasma gets good reviews over in the states (see www.avsforum.com) - people rave about the colour reproduction - and of course it's a HD resolution panel. But I went against it for aesthetic reasons - the connections are down the side of the panel - and the Mrs. would go spare! :laugh:

    Anyhow - I'm going for the Panny PW7 - which apparently has something fancy in the glass/electronics to reduce screen burn - which might be handy for those with games consoles. Wether it works or not I don't know - my plasma isn't coming til next Friday - but I'll keep you posted.

    ZedZed

    p.s. Rafaqat - I've replied to your PM if you haven't already seen it :)
     
  19. hutchys

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    So,
    If we can achieve better results from good upscaling would the PW6 with the ISCAN HD show a PQ not far behind the same scaler with a PHD6 or would the difference be very evident, not night and day difference, but you could look at both and say yer the PW6 looks good but look at the PHD that looks great! It just that the difference in price is approx £1300. I struggle to see a PW6 were I live as for PHD6 forget it. I ask the question if anyone has seen them both together with good scalers (iscan,lumagen,cimerateq etc) I will leave the crystillo( I think it's called that) due to price.

    Thanks
     
  20. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Fujitsu VHA 30 with an Iscan HD running 720p is supposed to phenominal......
     
  21. hutchys

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    Thanks HD,
    So have you seen the Fujitsu VHA? and I persume you have not seen the Pannys to compare?
     
  22. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    I have seen and sold many a VHA My favourite SD PLasma for a number of reasons.... not seen it running with Iscan HD tho Fujitsu are panny based but with better electronics better warranty..... Connectivity is not as good, no HDMI etc 1 scart one component but 2 year warranty 1st is hot swap......... 2nd RTB but at £800 more than panny PW6 its a bit hard to justify when it was £300 then Fujitsu all the way baby...
     

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