Third Party Injury Claim - Worth fighting or don't bother....

booyaka

Moderator
Cutting a long story short...Car insurance is one big mess/scam.

7th September - I was recently involved in a bump in a petrol station forecourt with a Berlingo van (estimated 5 mph) ....Woman driver was on the phone at the time of the incident, admitted she was distracted and agreed it was her fault. 3 minutes later husband turns up, tells her to sit in the car he's driving, and say nothing to me. He then proceeds to rant at me about looking where I was going etc, tell me it's my fault - despite being nowhere near the incident at the time. We exchange details, I was on route to Edinburgh and car was fine to drive, mainly cosmetic damage.

Fast forward to later in the day on the way home from Edinburgh - Husband calls me claiming 3 witness saw me hit her van, he has CCTV from the garage and it's all my fault.

Anyway - I get home call my insurance and leave it with them to deal with.

2 days later - my insurance company call me, they've had zero contact from other party, or their insurance, so unless I can prove anything it will go 50/50 to start with. I tried to get CCTV from BP but it was going to take months of forms/data protection issues etc to get it and my insurance said to me not to bother.

Fast forward another week, suddenly my insurance call me again and say from the description I've given and the drawings I sent to them of the incident, it's my fault 100%.....I query how they get to this and they say that since the front of my car is damage and the side of hers is, I must have hit her....despite the fact she cut across me .

Also since I moved from a stationary position (the pump i was using) and she has come from my right side and was moving already on the forecourt, I'm to blame for it. I try and argue the point but my insurance not interested and tell me it's my fault.

So now I'm 100% liable for an incident according to them - Anyway - car goes to the body-shop that is the insurance companies preferred one, they have the car for 4 weeks!!!! and the final bill is £3000 for a new bumper, wing, new headlight unit and some small other scraps...... (I'm just paying my excess but the pricing is ridiculous for the job)

Total joke....Body shop are claiming it was 35 hours of labour and £1800 in parts!!!! Utterly ridiculous - but since it's an "insurance" job we can charge what we like......







Fast forward to this weekend

Received a letter from my insurance company - Third party is now making injury claim.o_Oo_O

Laughable - totally laughable. My 12 year old son who was in the car with me at the time of the incident summed it up well this morning...

" how can someone lie like that - she was totally fine and the bump was like 5mph as we pulled away from the petrol pump in a forecourt" - that's his take on it.

Pathetic that this incident will end up being around £5-6k claim now with what went on above plus injury claim.

Should I bother trying to fight the 3rd party claim - or just leave it, let the insurance payout and move on??

Esure is my insurers (would never use them again NOR their preferred repair company) - I'll be calling them tomorrow to find out the details of the injury claim - but there is NO WAY on this planet she was injured as it was a walking speed bump.

I presume I should just roll over and let them claim?? Ridiculous state of affairs
 

marksovereign

Well-known Member
Without any proof, let her claim and let your insurance company sort it out. Thats whats they're there for! There are some right horrible scrotes out there and though it sticks in your craw let them claim as it sounds like your insurers have already made there minds up that its your fault. Do you really need the hassle of fighting something you won't win?
 

Inked

Distinguished Member
Agree with @marksovereign, I’d just let it go.

I went into the back of a taxi one winter at about 5 miles an hour due to an icy road, there was no damage to either car but all three passengers of the taxi plus the driver claimed for whiplash. While it annoyed the hell out of me for a moment, I decided to let karma (and the insurance company) deal with it rather than letting it get to me.
 

roheel

Active Member
£3k for that damage?!? Hell no. I would ask to see the old parts as I bet you for starters it's the same headlight unit....
 

sounds_good

Active Member
I suppose you have to find a way to balance your peace of mind against what sounds like a blatant scammer who's going to drive up your insurance premiums while playing a system & a disinterested insurer not being suitably diligent in their business practice . I'd be tempted to at least try getting the CCTV, according to this: Request CCTV footage of yourself, it should only take 1 month or less by law.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
Short version; just let it go. Both on how much the garage charged and whatever the ladies husband ;) is claiming.

It is not right, but it is not yours to deal with. The loss adjustors in insurance companies need to do their job for them.

I do have some sympathy for the insurance company, when you hit someone from the side or in the back it is very very difficult to evidence they are at fault, let alone they started moving after you. I seem to recall one story on here someone got out of that due to onboard cameras that picked up the whole incident and before the incident.
 

booyaka

Moderator
Yeah - My nature is just to let it go and not bother about it. But it just winds me up that people are so pathetic these days at the mere sniff of a payout.

I will call insurance this morning however just to find out.

Just ridiculous really that after 25 years of driving, my son wanted some snacks for the journey to Edinburgh and I stopped at the petrol station. 3 seconds either way and I wouldn't have the bump!!

Anyway - at least my Tesla I'm now driving has 4 cameras rolling the whole time so any more of this nonsense and I'll have it on film!

Will update later for information purposes.
 

booyaka

Moderator
Spoke to Esure this morning - Personal injury claim lodge by solicitors (usual no win no fee crowd in Glasgow) - I've asked to be kept up to date with any information provided. They will email me any updates but it can take a few months to get medical reports etc.

I did say that I wanted it on record that I believe this to be a totally and utterly fictitious claim.

What worries me was my insurance said - "we'll try and settle this as quickly as possible".... What kind of attitude is that?? Surely it's not a case of settling quickly, it's a case of fighting the claim/rebuffing it - not just agreeing to pay out as quick as possible.

I know this is the real world of insurance but it's ridiculous it's got to this stage that it's all about closing as quickly as possible.
 

gibbo52

Active Member
It's already nearly 2 months from getting the cctv, just get it and make the claim wait,
I take it you've reported it to the police?
 

marksovereign

Well-known Member
Spoke to Esure this morning - Personal injury claim lodge by solicitors (usual no win no fee crowd in Glasgow) - I've asked to be kept up to date with any information provided. They will email me any updates but it can take a few months to get medical reports etc.

I did say that I wanted it on record that I believe this to be a totally and utterly fictitious claim.

What worries me was my insurance said - "we'll try and settle this as quickly as possible".... What kind of attitude is that?? Surely it's not a case of settling quickly, it's a case of fighting the claim/rebuffing it - not just agreeing to pay out as quick as possible.

I know this is the real world of insurance but it's ridiculous it's got to this stage that it's all about closing as quickly as possible.
Its all about the costs of fighting it, which sometimes means it's cheaper to pay than fight!
 

Greg Hook

Moderator & Reviewer
Disgraceful really how people can blatantly lie to get money out of insurance companies.
The problem stems from shockingly poor systems, a small bump to end up costing thousands is ridiculous. Whoever is the loss adjuster for this claim is either taking a back hander from the garage or is grossly incompetent.

I take if you don't have a dash cam?
 

gangzoom

Well-known Member
NOR their preferred repair company) - I'll be calling them tomorrow to find out the details of the injury claim - but there is NO WAY on this planet she was injured as it was a walking speed bump.

I presume I should just roll over and let them claim?? Ridiculous state of affairs
Sadly as your finding out none of the insurance companies really care about their customers, all they want is cash from our wallets and that's it.

When it comes to a claim remember its not you versus third party, its your insurance company trying to work out the quickest and cheapest way for them to settle the claim. If it means your premium goes up next year for a 'at fault' accident but it means the matter gets resolved in weeks rather than month/going to court than so be it, they really couldn't careless what you (the customer) have to deal with.

A dash cam really is 100% vital these days, as it give you leverage against your own insurance company when they decide to do some thing silly. Its also why 'accident management' companies still exists, for all their bad press my experience with them is at least they will fight your corner if you have evidence to back up your not at fault - since the more fighting they do on your behalf the more they can charge for costs.

Its really a no-win situation for us the customers, either way your screwed, but having a dash cam and not driving like a twit (therefor not been at fault) is about the best you can do.
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member
A £40 dashcam would have saved you so much hassle and likely an insurance claim. Likely the third party could be investigated for insurance fraud as well. Cannot understand why it isn't the first thing in someone list when they buy a car.
With no witnesses and no camera footage, and damage to the front of a car will almost certainly go against you.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
he has a car with 4 cams now :)
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member
I take if you don't have a dash cam?
Probably mentioned this before. But I was travelling down a one way street behind a tipper truck thing when he turned left down a narrow road. The road was shut due to scaffolding.
He proceeded to reverse back into the road and into my car. It was 6am, council did not want to give me any CCTV and no witnesses were around.
The guy driving said his gaffer would ring me. He didn't, so I went through the insurance. 3 days later he rings me, claiming that I crashed into the back of his vehicle, his driver was going to claim for injury etc etc.
I said fine. Not once did I point out I had a dashcam. It took 6 months to sort the claim
Why, when I had it all on dash cam?
Because his insurance company filed a police complaint, and they wouldn't settle until he had been through the courts.
 

booyaka

Moderator
It's already nearly 2 months from getting the cctv, just get it and make the claim wait,
I take it you've reported it to the police?
Police not interested as no one was reported to be injured at the time of the incident.

Only way to get CCTV from BP is to apply to them via their head office, then they will contact the garage in question, which to complicate things again, is franchised. The franchisee has different methods/standards than BP do.

However - since other people are likely to be in the footage, the garage are likely to refuse to release it to me or my insurance company, without the police getting involved.

BP head office quoted this in a letter to me:

The CCTV owner might not be allowed to share any footage if:
  • other people can be seen in it
  • they’re not able to edit out people to protect their identity
Back to the start again - police aren't interested as there is no criminal element. So ultimately, the CCTV footage is never going to be released/available to me.
 

nvingo

Well-known Member
Police not interested as no one was reported to be injured at the time of the incident.
...
Back to the start again - police aren't interested as there is no criminal element. So ultimately, the CCTV footage is never going to be released/available to me.
This makes it criminal: Fraud, crash-for-cash.
You just have to get someone to believe your side.
Do you have Legal Cover on any (other) insurance, eg. House, Life, or Mortgage/credit-card ?
 

booyaka

Moderator
This makes it criminal: Fraud, crash-for-cash.
You just have to get someone to believe your side.
Do you have Legal Cover on any (other) insurance, eg. House, Life, or Mortgage/credit-card ?
Legal services will only take the case on "IF" there is a better than 50/50 chance of winning the case. At this time my insurance is awaiting the actual details of the injury claim.

Since my insurance has already decided I was 100% liable for the initial bump, I can't see anything other than a payout here once the "medical" details are sent to my insurers. Any medical report from a gp or otherwise will be very hard to dispute/disprove
 

nvingo

Well-known Member
Having re-read OP, third-party was driving a van, the collision was OP's offside, so van driver's blind side. Makes it understandable how collision occurred, van driver just expecting OP to give way to her, because OP had the 'view ahead'.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
If she was on the phone on a petrol forecourt she was breaking the law. It is illegal to use a mobile phone on a forecourt. Although the legislation that covers it may have changed since my time as a firefighter it did come under the Petroleum Sprits Act. If she was on her phone whilst driving or parking and within the forecourt limits then point that out to your insurance company.
 

booyaka

Moderator
If she was on the phone on a petrol forecourt she was breaking the law. It is illegal to use a mobile phone on a forecourt. Although the legislation that covers it may have changed since my time as a firefighter it did come under the Petroleum Sprits Act. If she was on her phone whilst driving or parking and within the forecourt limits then point that out to your insurance company.
i did tell insurance company that i suspected she was on the phone at the time of the incident. - She hopped out the car, already on the phone at the time of the bump. She was out the car within about 4-5 seconds. She was already talking on the phone. When I challenged her about the phone, she "claimed" she had just phoned her husband.

There is no way in the space of 4-5 seconds of the incident, that she has picked up her phone from somewhere in her van, made a call, and already speaking to the husband.

But as per previous - without the CCTV I can't prove it and so far, my insurance company, BP head office and police aren't interested as they would all need to come together to request the CCTV due to the fact there are other people in the footage, cars, registration plates etc. None of which have provided their consent for the footage to be released.

Ultimately I just get the feeling that Esure just want to payout whatever, and close the case. They are utterly disinterested.
 

nvingo

Well-known Member
...Ultimately I just get the feeling that Esure just want to payout whatever, and close the case. They are utterly disinterested.
"Dear Esure, If you pay out to the third party without due investigation, and without taking on board primary eyewitness testimony (my own), I shall never purchase any insurance from Esure in the future."
 

Greg Hook

Moderator & Reviewer
"Dear Esure, If you pay out to the third party without due investigation, and without taking on board primary eyewitness testimony (my own), I shall never purchase any insurance from Esure in the future."
I doubt that they could care less about that. Insurance companies don't seem to care if you leave or stay. They know the fools that auto renew every year are keeping them well in the money anyway.
 

nvingo

Well-known Member
...Insurance companies don't seem to care if you leave or stay. They know the fools that auto renew every year...
I should have added "..and spread my experience with you via reviews and social media..."
 

alistairgd

Active Member
In your first post you said she was on the phone at the time of the accident, this would have compromised her insurance cover.

But then you change this to an assumption that she was on the phone - you didn't actually see her on the phone, behind the wheel, while the vehicle was in motion?

When dealing with these things you have to be very clear - contradictory statements such as this would have an impact on how believable your version of events were in a situation where there is a conflict.

From your description and the insurance outcome, it sounds like you pulled out of a filling area and struck a car that was already moving through the forecourt. I'm unclear what your argument is against this although those photo's look like something you hit, not vice versa?
 

booyaka

Moderator
In your first post you said she was on the phone at the time of the accident, this would have compromised her insurance cover.

But then you change this to an assumption that she was on the phone - you didn't actually see her on the phone, behind the wheel, while the vehicle was in motion?

When dealing with these things you have to be very clear - contradictory statements such as this would have an impact on how believable your version of events were in a situation where there is a conflict.

From your description and the insurance outcome, it sounds like you pulled out of a filling area and struck a car that was already moving through the forecourt. I'm unclear what your argument is against this although those photo's look like something you hit, not vice versa?
You are correct - at the point of driving, I obviously didn't see her car, and I don't think she saw mine as I moved from the filling pump - I moved approx 15 ft from the pump, thus was going at a very very low speed when we bumped - I didn't actually see her on the phone whilst the car was moving.

However, we bumped into each other, I reverse away from the bump a few feet and got out the car within about 5 seconds and she did the same, and was on the phone speaking to someone already when she got out the van.

Now, she "claims" that in the space of time from the bump to getting out the car (approx 5 seconds or so) - she had picked up her phone, dial/made a call, and her husband had answered it. I said at the time was she on the phone at the time of her driving....she claims not.

So you are correct - I'm "assuming" she was on the phone at the time of the incident but can't prove it. (i can't see how someone can pick up their phone from inside their car, dial a number and be already speaking to someone in such a short space of time, let alone be more likely to be thinking about the incident that's just happened.)

My main point is not who's to blame etc - I can't be bothered arguing that with my insurance company as they decided early on it's my fault 100% - The point is, the incident took place at a speed I would say was sub 5 mph as I had barely moved from a stationary position - So an injury claim is a total joke and just made up.
 

TerFar

Active Member
Cutting a long story short...Car insurance is one big mess/scam.

7th September - I was recently involved in a bump in a petrol station forecourt with a Berlingo van (estimated 5 mph) ....Woman driver was on the phone at the time of the incident, admitted she was distracted and agreed it was her fault. 3 minutes later husband turns up, tells her to sit in the car he's driving, and say nothing to me. He then proceeds to rant at me about looking where I was going etc, tell me it's my fault - despite being nowhere near the incident at the time. We exchange details, I was on route to Edinburgh and car was fine to drive, mainly cosmetic damage.

Fast forward to later in the day on the way home from Edinburgh - Husband calls me claiming 3 witness saw me hit her van, he has CCTV from the garage and it's all my fault.

Anyway - I get home call my insurance and leave it with them to deal with.

2 days later - my insurance company call me, they've had zero contact from other party, or their insurance, so unless I can prove anything it will go 50/50 to start with. I tried to get CCTV from BP but it was going to take months of forms/data protection issues etc to get it and my insurance said to me not to bother.

Fast forward another week, suddenly my insurance call me again and say from the description I've given and the drawings I sent to them of the incident, it's my fault 100%.....I query how they get to this and they say that since the front of my car is damage and the side of hers is, I must have hit her....despite the fact she cut across me .

Also since I moved from a stationary position (the pump i was using) and she has come from my right side and was moving already on the forecourt, I'm to blame for it. I try and argue the point but my insurance not interested and tell me it's my fault.

So now I'm 100% liable for an incident according to them - Anyway - car goes to the body-shop that is the insurance companies preferred one, they have the car for 4 weeks!!!! and the final bill is £3000 for a new bumper, wing, new headlight unit and some small other scraps...... (I'm just paying my excess but the pricing is ridiculous for the job)

Total joke....Body shop are claiming it was 35 hours of labour and £1800 in parts!!!! Utterly ridiculous - but since it's an "insurance" job we can charge what we like......







Fast forward to this weekend

Received a letter from my insurance company - Third party is now making injury claim.o_Oo_O

Laughable - totally laughable. My 12 year old son who was in the car with me at the time of the incident summed it up well this morning...

" how can someone lie like that - she was totally fine and the bump was like 5mph as we pulled away from the petrol pump in a forecourt" - that's his take on it.

Pathetic that this incident will end up being around £5-6k claim now with what went on above plus injury claim.

Should I bother trying to fight the 3rd party claim - or just leave it, let the insurance payout and move on??

Esure is my insurers (would never use them again NOR their preferred repair company) - I'll be calling them tomorrow to find out the details of the injury claim - but there is NO WAY on this planet she was injured as it was a walking speed bump.

I presume I should just roll over and let them claim?? Ridiculous state of affairs
You're correct: what a mess. I know it's a bit too late for this accident, but I strongly recommend fitting a Dash Cam. That would have proved that you were not to blame and that she was on her phone. No data protection issues either! I'd probably drop it and let the insurance company sort it.
 

booyaka

Moderator
Gone over board with cameras now - got 4 of them.....Standard fair on the Model 3 Tesla!
 

SElwell

Active Member
Just because they have put a claim in for PI doesn't mean that any insurance company will pay out.

My OH bumped into the rear of a Frontera, deemed her fault, 3 claims for PI and damage for a crash at a few MPH .

Later when renewing the insurance I queried with the insurance how much was paid out so that I could inform the next insurance company of the value of the claim. The value recorded was zero.

I did meet with the loss adjuster who came to view the front of OH car (small crack in number plate housing) and discussed how minor the crash must have been.
 

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