Question Thinking the previously unthinkable switching pj for tv

kbfern

Distinguished Member
I have been wanting to change my pj for the last year or so and came close to getting a JVC X500 recently but this morning I got thinking............

I do love projectors and think it's great that finally we are close (within a year or two) to getting 4k projectors other than the current Sony offerings in addition with very long life illumination (like the LS10000) but at what price? I imagine a laser Sony or JVC will be well over £10-15k so well beyond what I could consider spending on a pj.

Bluray UHD along with netfix/amazon and now BT mean that native 4k material is at last starting to filter through, even some broadcast tv is possible within a year or so from Sky etc.

So....... not really thought about a new tv for quite a while as my current set, an 8yr old Sammy plasma 720p 50" model has and still performs very well. But I have been thinking that I probably need to replace it soon with a 4k set and today got me thinking.............

Why not consider a bloody big 75"/85" 4k tv instead as it seems that they are coming down in price fairly quickly and an 85" UHDTV is now down to under £6500. Agreed it's an LED but it can't be more than a year before 75/85 OLED could be the same sort of money or even less (for a 75").

Considering I could move closer to the screen (say 5-6ft) a smaller size screen than the 100" I have now may not be as noticeable.So with these much larger 4k tv's now in their 3rd/4th gen and prices coming down & tech improving is the death knell for projectors nearly here.

Obviously if you want a huge 120-150" screen a pj still has to be the choice but if around 85" and viewing from a close distance maybe a tv is a better option.

What do you think?
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
I know I know:D but it's not such a daft thought as you might think. It is probably not for you and your room Neil as you have a mahoosif screen and a pj is perfect.:smashin:

But in my small room and sitting as close as I do I can see a 75" or even better an 85" quite probably working especially if sat at 6ft from the screen.:eek:
 

geogan

Well-known Member
Would you really spend 8K now on a current model TV that doesn't have any HDR capability? That may be obsolete already? Also I'd imagine an 85" TV which does have HDR will probably be a lot more than 8K for a while when it comes out...
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
Keith; hand your card in on the way out. ;)



Yes, I get where you're coming from but I don't buy the 'sit closer' argument though. SOmehow I can always tell it's a smaller screen. For example I sit 11' away from my 50" TV in the main room and 7' away from my 39" TV in the conservatory. The main room one still looks 'bigger' to me, yet the viewing angles must be very similar, if not in favour of the 39".
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
Would you really spend 8K now on a current model TV that doesn't have any HDR capability? That may be obsolete already? Also I'd imagine an 85" TV which does have HDR will probably be a lot more than 8K for a while when it comes out...


No I would not spend £8k now or ever, £4-5k for an 4k OLED with HDR @ 75" quite probably although that may be 12-18 months away. If it was LED they are already down to below £4k.
 

markymiles

Distinguished Member
I have similar thoughts every time I go to Costco and walk past the big TV's. They certainly look impressive.
 

mikeybabes2

Distinguished Member
Nurse, you've forgotten the blue pills again! You know how he gets when he hasn't had his blue pills. We never got the stains out of the carpet the last time you forgot, and Barker & Stonehouse have refused to replace the sideboard under warranty if it happens again.

Seriously though - You watch TV if you want. I'm going to the movies !

(I predict a big TV on the classified around 6 months after you get it.) :D
 

Smurfin

Distinguished Member
Costco TVs might look impressive but that screen size gives you no end of problems with uniformity, which you'll never see until you get it in your house, and l don't believe you can beat a projected image in terms of recreating the cinema experience.

I remember a few years back I sold my projector when I moved house, and bought a 60" Kuro plasma (£4500 :eek: ). I didn't miss the projector, BUT...I seriously would have if I hadn't moved house. If your setup is staying in the same house and room, if the projector works and if you love movies, I think you're nuts for considering it :) (imho).
 

Pecker

Distinguished Member
As I often say, you can't recreate scale by altering viewing distances/display sizes.


But that works two ways. You can't replicate a 'real' cinema in the home with a 100" screen, nor a 100" screen with a 55" screen...but which is closest to which?

You know what I've said elsewhere. I'll add this.

I'm into home cinema to watch films as best as I can. There's the compromise of picture quality with a projector screen, and there's a compromise of size with a flatscreen.

I think with the recent increases in size and even further improvement in quality of flatscreens, I think the choice isn't as stark as it once was.

Bottom line - my previous 43" plasma, I wouldn't consider christening a new Blu-ray on it. My new 55" OLED, I'd have no problem at all.

Bottom line, you'll never, ever replicate 'real' cinema with a home projector and screen. We've hit the barrier already, and it'll never improve. If you've got the biggest screen you can get in your room, that's never going to get closer to a real cinema unless you knock walls down or build an extension.

There will ALWAYS be EXACTLY the same compromise with projectors.

But the quality and size of flatscreens is getting better.

With a few issues, OLEDs are approaching perfect. Sizes are increasing all the time. When I bought my 43" plasma a 50" would cost you £5K - that's a 768p model. Now, after 9 years of inflation, £5K will buy you a 65" 4K OLED. I have no doubt we'll see 4K affordable roll up 100" OLEDs any day now.

Or at least within my lifetime.

Sorry, that's no help, is it.

Steve W
 

mikeybabes2

Distinguished Member
Bottom line, you'll never, ever replicate 'real' cinema with a home projector and screen. We've hit the barrier already, and it'll never improve. If you've got the biggest screen you can get in your room, that's never going to get closer to a real cinema unless you knock walls down or build an extension.

We could get the AVF crew down to grind popcorn into the carpet, throw chewing gum at the screen, and break wind during the quiet bits. That would certainly make the experience a bit more like a cinema. ...
 

Pecker

Distinguished Member
We could get the AVF crew down to grind popcorn into the carpet, throw chewing gum at the screen, and break wind during the quiet bits. That would certainly make the experience a bit more like a cinema. ...

And chavs on mobiles, obviously.

But along with all of the above, we lose audience participation, a sense of community, and so on. Which is, of course, also true of flatscreens.

Steve W
 

steviedr

Distinguished Member
Another defector incoming....

I'm thinking along the same lines as Keith.
I love my projector and was thinking about upgrade plans over the next few years. I've gone from wanting the X7000, to upgrading my X30 to a X500 once the new range hits to sitting back and watching how it pans out as the HDR OLED arrive.
I've a 100" 2:40:1 screen so about 80" 1:77:1.
My screen comes down over my wall mounted 55" tv.
I do love the projected image, makes watching film all the more special but I'm starting to think about future 70-80" TVs and when I move house may try and sell the projector/screen/tv with it and upgrade to a to that will suit all scenarios.
Now don't get me wrong, the price needs to be right, the image needs to be fantastic (already hearing great things about OLED's) and the size needs to provide a wow.
I have gone from upgrade mode to sit back, observe and keep and close eye on these threads.
I think with the size of the new sets, it does make the choice very interesting.
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
We could get the AVF crew down to grind popcorn into the carpet, throw chewing gum at the screen, and break wind during the quiet bits. That would certainly make the experience a bit more like a cinema. ...

Sounds like a typical Saturday night at my place...:laugh:

The problem I have with even a big TV is that they aren't usually good at being used in the complete dark (LCDs with the backlight fully down are still too bright for my taste). As soon as the lights are on I get distracted away from the film, so for me a big part of watching on the projector (apart from that a projected image just 'feels' different somehow) is that I watch in the dark. A fade to black on the X500 is (briefly) total darkness which can add tension to certain scenes.

Since my room (still) isn't set up as a bat cave I've always been aware that even my modest TV can look better than the projector in terms of sharpness and ANSI contrast, if not absolute contrast (JVC considerably exceeds my Panny LCD in on/off contrast even without DI). But watching films on my TV is still just 'loud telly' rather than watching on the projector.
 
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panman40

Distinguished Member
We could get the AVF crew down to grind popcorn into the carpet, throw chewing gum at the screen, and break wind during the quiet bits. That would certainly make the experience a bit more like a cinema. ...

The last 3 times I visited our local cinema everyone was very well behaved, shame about the cinema experience though... On the last 3D occasion I had to tell the staff to reverse the polarity, only wearing the glasses upside down gave correct 3D image :facepalm:, I no longer go to the cinema now as my calibrated home setup is much superior, oh and the fridge is just in the kitchen :D
 

mikeybabes2

Distinguished Member
The problem I have with even a big TV is that they aren't usually good at being used in the complete dark (LCDs with the backlight fully down are still too bright for my taste). As soon as the lights are on I get distracted away from the film, so for me a big part of watching on the projector (apart from that a projected image just 'feels' different somehow) is that I watch in the dark. A fade to black on the X500 is (briefly) total darkness which can add tension to certain scenes.

It's ironic really, isn't it. The problem with a PJ is the blacks, the problem with a TV is the blacks.

By the time a 100" 4k OLED comes out that i can afford, my eyes will be so bad I won't be able to see it.

Youth, my friends, is wasted on the young.......
 

Rickyj at Kalibrate

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
No I would not spend £8k now or ever, £4-5k for an 4k OLED with HDR @ 75" quite probably although that may be 12-18 months away. If it was LED they are already down to below £4k.

I personally think you may be waiting a lot longer for this. There is a 77"4k oled already, but that has a RRP of around £30k. The supply and demand for panels over 64" is just not there yet unfortunately.
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member

Smurfin

Distinguished Member
Quite possibly Ricky but there is a 65" @ £4999 albeit last gen so they are coming down fairly quickly.
LG 65EC970V 65 inch Curved OLED 4K Ultra HD 3D Smart TV Freeview HD

imho there's a massive drop in the demand between a 65" and 77" (and upwards) TV; it doesn't scale in a linear fashion. In 5 years time 100" OLEDs will still be the preserve of footballers and rock stars, simply because people can't fit them in their homes. Even if general production costs drop (which they will), the demand at that end of the market is so small because our houses haven't got any bigger.

Don't be fooled by the Costco Sharp 80-90" TVs either...they still cost a fortune and are based on old tech. We're a long way from projectors dying out imho.
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
I agree cheap pj's similar to what you have recently got are not likely to die out anytime soon as they represent great value for money. However I started off here talking about new 4k pj's with laser illumination and a price tag north of £10k that is a very different animal.

V large screens are coming down and already last years 75" and over 4k tv's are showing up at mid end (£3K)1080p pj prices. When you can get a 75"/85" 4k tv with HDR etc for £4k I would be in, even possibly if it was LED and not OLED which I would obviously prefer.

I mean daytime or nightime viewing, long life, better blacks & contrast than a projector at that sort of price level,no need to buy an expensive screen like you had to.

My love affair with pj's has not ended yet but I am just seeing ahead a relatively short time and see front projection on the decline against other techs taking over.I don't live in a footballer mansion but can easily find enough wall space in either my lounge or cinema room/office for an 85" screen( I have a 100"+ fitted screen already). And these days they are not that heavy (less than an old 32" crt) and can easily be wall mounted.
 

Pecker

Distinguished Member
This is why the OLED roll up screen is important.

Most projector owners will buy a projector and 100" screen over a 100" TV because it'd be impossible to manoeuvre the latter into the room.

We spend a lot of time, money and pissing off SWMBO with velvet panels to try to eek that 1% extra contrast. When we can get OLED contrast in a roll up, that'll be it.

Prices of large sets will come down. Most of the cost of a large set is the cost of the technology, not the real estate.

And there's talk with the roll ups that you'll be able to just stick them together - buy 4 x 55" sets and you have a 110" set.

When the 1080p 55" sets are £1,000 each, that's a 110" 4k set for £4,000 *.

How much is a 4K projector?

Steve W

* When the 4K 55" OLEDs are £1k, that's a 110" 8K screen for £4,000.

SW
 
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Smurfin

Distinguished Member
However I started off here talking about new 4k pj's with laser illumination and a price tag north of £10k that is a very different animal.

True, but I think by the time your monster OLED sets are south of £4k, the monster projectors will also be a lot cheaper.

I mean daytime or nightime viewing, long life, better blacks & contrast than a projector at that sort of price level,no need to buy an expensive screen like you had to.

It definitely starts to get interesting with OLED quality (although a big LED screen is something I wouldn't even consider), yet I can't help but think a 75"-85" screen in place of your 100"+ will seem really small, and while you can watch it properly during the day, I still have an issue with watching normal TV - the news, The Apprentice, X-Factor or whatever your flavour or TV show is - at those kind of sizes.

My love affair with pj's has not ended yet but I am just seeing ahead a relatively short time and see front projection on the decline against other techs taking over. I don't live in a footballer mansion but can easily find enough wall space in either my lounge or cinema room/office for an 85" screen( I have a 100"+ fitted screen already). And these days they are not that heavy (less than an old 32" crt) and can easily be wall mounted.

It's going to be an interesting few years for sure, but there's a couple of other things to consider too. You might have the wall space for an 85" screen, but how many people could navigate their houses to get a boxed set that big into the rooms in the first place?...this alone will limit the demand, let alone whether people have the space or are willing to stick such a massive set on the wall.

I guess that's a moot point if you have a dedicated room with a fixed screen, but again how many people are in that situation? I think we are some way from truly monster 4k OLED HDR sets being at a reasonable price (just look at Panasonic's 65" 4k OLED - £8k), and even if they drop rapidly in price, I'm not convinced the truly huge sizes will be within most mere mortal's grasp for quite a few years to come. I hope I'm wrong though :)

@kbfern out of curiosity try zooming your projector down to a 75" diagonal screen size - could you live with that? :) Oh and it didn't happen if you don't post pics ;)
 

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