Thinking of replacing your plasma?

Dodgexander

Moderator
A common question on here is from people looking to upgrade from an old Plasma tv. Obviously every Plasma tv is different, but I thought I would list some reasons that still make Plasma technology generally a better choice when it comes to pure image quality.

Difference is by design:
Plasma TVs like newer OLED screens light each pixel of resolution independently, this means unlike LCD screens, there is far more control over displaying an image between dark and bright or colour too colour.
This usually means that Plasma TVs have very good black levels and very good contrast, sometimes better than even the higher end LCD screens. It also means they avoid a lot of problems with LCD screens that OLED TV's also avoid.

Response time
This is the time it takes the television to adjust its picture, eg move from one pixel to another. LCD's rely on a light behind the screen, usually with a shutter in front of it. This takes time to open close and therefore means that LCD screens usually have a lot slower response times compared to that of OLED or Plasma TVs.
Motion lines
Plasma TVs (technically) can draw 1080 lines of motion without a problem, they will do this out of the box without changing any settings. This isn't the same for LCD screens. For an LCD screen to cope with the same amount of motion without hiccups it has to apply some form of frame insertion. The most common is frame interpolation which predicts and inserts frames to make content seem smoother. This introduces a soap opera effect that for many makes the picture look unusually smooth.
Luckily LCD screens have started to also use frame insertion. This instead inserts a plain colour frame(usually black or red) between each frame giving you the appearance that motion is flowing smoother. This is better than motion interpolation as it doesn't add artefacts. It does however make the image darker (not a problem for brighter LCD screens) and introduces flicker, noticeable to some more than others.
tltr motion is still a lot better on Plasma TV's vs LCD.
Viewing angles
The best LCD tvs for contrast and black levels use VA type panels, these panels typically offer up to a 20 degree off axis viewing angle before colours start to change. On Plasma TV's viewing angles are rarely a problem, even if you view the screen from a tight angle. With the inferior contrast and black level IPS LCD screens this is improved somewhat, but you will still notice colour degrading at about a 40 degree off axis angle.
Blooming, back light bleed, clouding or Dirty Screen Effect etc etc
Some LCD's more than others suffer from these. Fundamentally the reason for this is again down to the technology. Whilst a Plasma TV or OLED can brighten each pixel on its own, an LCD can't.
Many higher end LCD screens try to overcome this by adding independent dimming zones and local dimming technology, but unless they have 1 light for every pixel, they will always suffer in this area.
Imagine displaying a star in a sky, or a red footballer playing on green grass. On an OLED or Plasma tv it is able to light bright pixels and dark pixels right next to each other at exactly the level of brightness needed. An LCD screen cannot do this, it has to measure how bright the light gets behind the screen (or in the best case that area of the screen) and control it accordingly. This means sometimes stars in the sky will look like they are smothered in grey, or you may see blotches in colour between a football players shirt and the football pitch. This becomes especially the case during movement.
Due to the very nature of needing a light behind the screen, some LCD's more than others also suffer from one part of the screen looking brighter than others (those that are nearer to the location of the back lights), in some cases it also means you might seed light bleeding from the edges of the screen. With HDR content when the light is at its maximum, this only gets worse.

But its not all doom and gloom, LCD screens do have advantages over Plasma tv's. Firstly they get a lot brighter (great for HDR and/or if you watch during the day with lots of light) and if you are thinking of buying an UHD TV and you sit close enough to it, you will see a quality increase because of the resolution.
They also make better computer monitors due to the sharpness of the screens.
Overall if you take advantage of new technology such as UHD and HDR and you understand the limitations compared to Plasma tech, you will enjoy a new LCD TV.

For those of you who don't want to make a compromise, I suggest saving up for an OLED or looking at the second hand market.

For those of you needing to buy straight away, look no further than an OLED. The cheapest 910v can be had for £1300 new.

#Edit you can read more about motion resolution differences between plasma, OLED and LCDs here.

EDIT* relevant video:
 
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GadgetObsessed

Well-known Member
Interesting points.

I think that the choice also depends upon how you use your display.

I had a Panny GT60 plasma (my last in a line of Panny plasmas) and still have a Samsung F8500. I replaced the Panny with a Sony 65X8507C.

If your main use is watching TV in the dark then I would definitely stick with plasma. This environment is a torture test for LCDs and really does show up their issues with backlight uniformity. In this environment the extra brightness of LCDs is not required - plasmas are plenty bright enough.

If you watch a lot of football then plasma could be the best option. Scrolling on areas of constant colour will highlight the dirty screen effect (DSE) on LCDs. Personally, I watch some football and find the extra vibrancy of the brighter LCD image compensates for the DSE effect - but I always notice the DSE.

The same stick with plasma rule would also apply if you need wide viewing angles.

However, if watching in a lit room then I find that the extra brightness of LCD really does offer advantages. I find the advantage particularly noticeable for gaming. The first game I tried running on both the LCD and the plasma together in the same room was Star Wars Battlefront, playing on the snowy planet Hoth. On the LCD the snow is bright white - whereas on the plasma you really do notice the ABL kicking in to reduce the brightness on large white scenes making the plasma grey in comparison. (I am surprised that nobody ever offered a service to have a plasma "chipped" like a car to remove, or at least raise, any ABL limits.)

Additionally, now that there are some 4k sources finally coming on line (XBOX ONE S as a "cheap" UHD player and Netflix and Amazon 4k) the benefits are noticeable even if you don't sit very close to the screen. I sit 12' away from a 65" screen which theoretically is too far too notice the resolution advantage but the advantage of 4k sources may not just be the resolution - they also have higher bit rates so can appear better to watch even if the effective resolution is no higher. Plus there are the advantages of HDR and wider colour gamuts.

Finally, I am not convinced on the plasma motion is better than LCD motion argument. Personally - having sat and watched the GT60 next to the Sony LCD with the same source for football - I don't see a motion advantage of the plasma. This may be down to the Sony having what is regarded as very good motion algorithms. I use the minimum level of black frame insertion and no interpolation on the Sony.

Plasma does score higher than LCD in motion tests. However, these tests were created by plasma manufacturers to show plasma in the best light - so are hardly objective. (If you changed the speed of the scrolling pattern used the results would be different.) Most importantly though I read an article where some TV reviewers measured the motion resolution a number of sets with results ranging from 300 (LCD with no interpolation or black screen insertion) to 1080 for the best plasma. Then they compared the motion on the best and worst sets with real life sports content and found that they could not see any difference in motion resolution. It made them wonder whether the motion resolution tests that they ran had any value.
 

George Sinanis

Active Member
Very interesting reading and extremely helpful indeed.

I am in the process to sell my calibrated KPR500 to move to a bigger screen size as I have sold the projector and I miss the big screen feeling.

My budget is not small (£2,500 approx.) but, not big either. We are seating about 3m from the screen and ideally I would like to go for a 75" but, not many options at that price point.

My biggest concern is motion and I do hate that soap opera effect that I've seen in some LCDs. That's my worst fear buying a new tv.

I have invested time over the past few weeks viewing different TVs but, realised that at long as a tv is not properly setup or calibrated then, you can get a £5K telly looking like a £500 in motion.

There was a Samsung 78KS9500 (I think was the model) that was so badly setup that the motion from every source looked worse than a £600 LCD that they had at the store.

I am still looking to upgrade and if you know any LED tv at the price point of £2,5K that after it is professionally calibrated not have the soap opera effect then you saved me :)
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
I thought it would be interesting to add that unlike Plasma TVs the current crop of LG 2016 OLEDs can only draw 300 lines of motion natively. This puts OLEDs on a par with LCDs and worse than plasma TVs for motion.

They, like LCDs can use frame interpolation, but they don't have frame insertion.

Technically that makes OLEDs worse than LCDs for motion when you also enable the motion control features.

Take the LG E6 for example. By default it can show 300 lines of motion. If you add is frame interpolation at its highest setting that moves to 600 lines, because it's interpolation rather than insertion that also means it will introduce soap opera effect.

By comparison, the Samsung KS7000 also draws 300 lines natively. That means it will be equal to the LG with all motion settings turned off.

If however you use LED clear motion (black frame insertion) you can see up to 1080 lines on the KS7000 without adding any soap opera affect. Of course the KS7000 has interpolation also, but we want to avoid any soap opera effect if we can.

As a result TVs with frame insertion will give you better motion resolution than current LG OLEDs but only if you use frame insertion.

Right now the only OLED using frame insertion is the new Phillips 901. Hopefully we will see it more commonly on 2017 models.

It's also not the whole story either. Motion isn't just about how many lines can be displayed at once clearly, it's also about how much blur in movement there is. Just like plasma TVs OLEDs have next to no motion blur.

Fundamentally this means that OLEDs are better TVs for motion overall as blur is far more important in sports and games then motion resolution. But still for motion overall plasma wins. At least until we start to see frame insertion on more OLEDs.

Just beware with LCDs that not all models have frame insertion. Right now Samsung's KS TVs have the best working implementation of it but Panasonic also use it on the DX-750 and higher too. Most Phillips LCDs also allow you to use it without adding interpolation or SOE.

Other manufacturers; Sony, LG etc have it on many models too, but not without having to select a preset that doesn't also contain interpolation. So with these LCDs to use frame insertion you'll also carry some dreaded soap opera effect. Although at the lowest setting Sony is best at hiding this.
Sadly both LG and Sony's implementation also carries more flicker and a greater drop o in luminance compared to others too.
 
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Gorrath28

Standard Member
If there is more advantages on Plasma over LCDs how come they haven't carried on the improvements of plasma technology?
I know that LCD uses less energy then Plasma. But if the motion blur and image quality is better on plasma. I don't get why they haven't carried on improving the technology? Like what they are doing now with the LCD improving the technology. Until OLED becomes the average TV then only OLED.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
There are lots of reasons, obvious ones related to power consumption, weight, brightness etc but the main one was the move to UHD, manufacturers found out it was very difficult to make UHD Plasma TVs so it was just found for this amongst other reasons not to be the way forward.

If you ask me they should have carried on producing them just for the FHD segment anyway, but I guess manufacturers want to move forward.

There's lots of info online if you search about it: Google
 

desinho

Member
The new Philips OLED has Clear Motion/BFI according to the review on lesnumeriques so that is a welcome addition.
And pretty much all LCD's have (black) frame insertion, on 50/60Hz models that's pretty much the only way to combat blur. It was Panasonic that has had it missing on some models in the past ...
On Sony 100Hz models it's in the custom Motionflow setting and the Motionflow Clear preset has always combined interpolation with BFI ...
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
The new Philips OLED has Clear Motion/BFI according to the review on lesnumeriques so that is a welcome addition.
And pretty much all LCD's have (black) frame insertion, on 50/60Hz models that's pretty much the only way to combat blur. It was Panasonic that has had it missing on some models in the past ...
On Sony 100Hz models it's in the custom Motionflow setting and the Motionflow Clear preset has always combined interpolation with BFI ...
thats good to know, thanks. Does it give separate controls so you can use only BFI?

I thought other manufacturers implementation of it always meant either you didn't get full 1080 lines of motion or that it also meant you had to also have soap opera affect.

For example with Samsung KS7 and higher and Panasonic DX-750 and higher you can have the BFI on but the interpolation off, introducing no motion artefacts or SOE.

With Sony you can customise your motion settings like the others, but if you use BFI you get either a. Mild SOE or b. very dark picture.

With LGs LCDs you can't gain 1080 lines of motion without also enabling motion interpolation, so you have either 1080 lines with SOE or about 900 without.

I think Philips LCDs you can have BFI on its own, from what I can remember reading somewhere. But it wasn't clear to me as some models it seemed you could enable it without interpolation whereas others you couldn't and you got dreaded SOE in the mix.

So AFAIK Panasonic and Samsung are the only ones that offer customisable BFI which you can use on its own without introducing SOE. If BFI is also available on Panasonic and Samsung 50hz panel tv's eg DX-700 or KU6xxx then I'm guessing they can't match 1080 lines due to having lower backlight strobing speeds?
 

desinho

Member
Since Android TV, the Sony models have had the custom motionflow settings. Clearness is BFI and Smoothness the interpolation (afaik) but indeed Samsung's seems the best. LG also has a de-blur custom option which should be BFI (unlike what de-blur maybe does on the Samsungs) but I haven't checked out LG models as well as others.
On Panasonic HDTV TV say: "To achieve a higher motion resolution of 1080 lines without incurring SOE or interpolation artefacts, we needed to optimise the values in the [Intelligent Frame Creation] “Custom” submenu which also contains a [Clear Motion] red[??black?] frame insertion option."

w800c-config-4-medium.jpg


On the 60Hz versions this was always a separate setting named LED Motion and on the just pre-Android models it was the Impulse mode that purely did BFI (adding almost no input lag)
"Motion resolution 1080 (but double image) with [LED Motion Mode] on; 300, off " HDTV Test about the 40W605B. And on another 60Hz Sony:
"As suspected, the KDL42W829′s lower Motionflow XR rating meant that Sony’s [Motionflow] motion-compensated frame interpolation (MCFI) control was nowhere to be found in the user menu. There’s one way to increase motion resolution from the LCD baseline of 300 (determined via the horizontally scrolling lines pattern in Chapter 31 of the FPD Benchmark Software test disc) to 1080, and that’s by engaging [LED Motion Mode] which activates black frame insertion (BFI). However, the resultant picture was too dim for this feature to be practical: even with [Backlight] and [Contrast] cranked to “Max“, peak light output from our 42W829 sample dropped to a paltry 27 cd/m2 once [LED Motion Mode] was switched on."
But the Clearness slider isn't so intense that it delivers the full 1080 score anymore I believe; or maybe it does (at least on the ZD9) but the end result is still the same as before: "Cranking [Clearness] to “Max” activates black frame insertion (BFI) but locks out the [Smoothness] control. While this resulted in supremely sharp motion without interpolation artefacts or soap opera effect, the picture became overly dim and flickery, making it unwatchable. Sony aficionados may remember experiencing the same outcome on older Bravia televisions with [Motionflow] set to “Impulse“."

Of course I was mainly replying on the implication(?) that other brands didn't have a pure BFI option, not the effectiveness.
Oh yeah: on Philips tv's it's called Perfect Clear Motion and here is the OLED review Philips 55POS901F : le premier téléviseur Oled avec Android TV et l'Ambilight
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
@desinho yeah that's what I thought when reading the Sony reviews. Why they don't let you have just frame insertion on the higher end models I don't know, but I can take a guess that the reviews speak the truth and that even on the ZD9 it makes the picture too dark on flickery.

I think motion is improving each year though. Even if BFI can't soley be used with Sony their interpolation on its lowest setting is very good.The Panasonic models do indeed insert red frames, I'm guessing at an attempt of not reducing brightness as much, however as you can see in reviews the results aren't as great as Samsung.

As for LG if the latest review on HDTVtest is anything to go by its a similar story to Sony. You have BFI but only when also using some interpolation. For some reason (maybe backlight doesn't strobe enough)? You only get 900 lines of motion with BFI though.It means to get the 1080 you need to put up with more obvious SOE than the others.

So at least with mid range/high range lcd tv's
Samsung let you have BFI alone and achieve 1080 lines.
Panasonic let you have RFI alone and achieve 1080 lines.
Sony let you have BFI but only with some interpolation and very slight SOE.
LG LCDs are similar to the Sony tv's except they don't reach 1080 lines without having stronger interpolation which also means more SOE vs Sony.
Phillips have BFI working great without any interpolation on their LCDs and new OLED.
No idea with Hisense but I imagine there won't be individual BFI controls like others.maybe someone else knows more about them.

As for budget models I'm not sure which would be best at motion.perhaps the Sony X75 series? I know Samsung KU have BFI now but they are only 60hz so doubt they can show a full 1080 lines at all, even with interpolation.
 

Tricamel

Novice Member
Hi Dodgexander, thanks for your comments, I wonder if you could give me some advice. I have had a Panasonic TX-P65VT20B for about 8 years now and I think the time may have come to change. I want to be in the sub £2k market and move to a 75" screen but the choice is bewildering. I watch TV using an Xbox OneX using Amazon and Netflix, I record the odd terrestrial freesat program (Pana1028 DVR) and play 4k games. It is the primarily the 4K aspect of things that is driving this. I sit between 4ft and 6ft from my screen. I also watch the odd 3D film on Blu Ray, but I am prepared to sacrifice this.
Sound is via a THX certified surround sound unit using digital optical connections but no Dolby ATMOS ... yet.
I have been considering the Samsung UE75MU6100 based unit as a display device but was concerned that I would loose more quality than I would gain. You appear to have been through this and I wondered what you would suggest? Blacks? Large artifacts? Poor upscaling of SD? Will I be disappointed? Should I stick with the Panasonic for now, it is an awesome telly. I can't even do a side by side anywhere!
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
@Tricamel I think really you shouldn't upgrade unless you can at least get a lower-mid range, preferably mid range model.

Examples would be the Sony 75XE9005 in the mid range or a TV like the 75MU7000 in the lower-mid range. The MU7000 is within your budget and can be had for even less than the price in most of the more popular stores if you can get them to price match other retailers.

My biggest concern after coming from a Plasma to an LCD is motion and you will want to skip TVs cheaper than these if you want good motion controls to clear that up and also so you are sure to get a high contrast panel.

You don't need wide viewing angles do you?

To answer your questions though:
Blacks are generally good on LCDs now with VA panels like the models suggested above. By design of LCDs though you won't get the same uniform blacks as your plasma, eg one pixel white, the next black. The reason is because no matter what you do with an LCD TV it still has lights behind. You can negate the effect of one bright part of the screen from bleeding in to the other by having ample local dimming, but really you are looking at models like the Sony 75XE9005 that has average local dimming to make a difference to this and more preferably higher end models with more zones behind the TV to have the best separation between dark and light on a LCD TV.

Having said that this is purely theoretical and highly subjective, it is surprising to some and disappointing to others coming from Plasma to LCD, especially an LCD without any decent local dimming, so it's really not the case I can tell you definitely how you will view it, only what I and others have thought.

Large artifacts?
Your kind of viewing distance is similar to mine, I wouldn't say that there are worse artefacts on an UHD panel but on a larger TV you do notice them more. For example motion to me looks a lot more juddery and I notice trails more than I did with a smaller TV.

Poor upscaling of SD?
This is definitely an issue and especially so with a larger screen. Not only is the upscaling of poorer quality sources worse, but its also magnified by a larger screen and also wanting to view closer to appreciate UHD at all. Ideally you want a sofa on rails really. Its watchable, but noticeably softer on my 65".

Will I be disappointed?
I think you will be if you can't update your sources to watch more UHD. Generally if you still watch some HD its okay, but even when you go from watching UHD to HD it looks poor by comparison (especially broadcast TV in HD). So to go from UHD to SD is really something I end up avoiding as much as possible.

General rule is to upgrade if you have the means to pair the TV with lots of new content, it will shine showing the new stuff. Don't upgrade if you think its going to display older content, especially lower quality stuff better, because it won't and in some cases it may actually look worse.
 

Tricamel

Novice Member
@Tricamel I think really you shouldn't upgrade unless you can at least get a lower-mid range, preferably mid range model.

I think you have confirmed my worst fears, I think I will by a cheap ...ish Hisense 50" 4k unit for now and set it up next to the big TV and see how things look when I am sitting really close, before I commit. Maybe this time next year OLED will have come down enough to be in the budget, I'm not sure I'm ready to pay out £7k on the LG OLED77W7V which I love, just yet, or pay £2k on something that gives me a poor quality.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
I think you have confirmed my worst fears, I think I will by a cheap ...ish Hisense 50" 4k unit for now and set it up next to the big TV and see how things look when I am sitting really close, before I commit. Maybe this time next year OLED will have come down enough to be in the budget, I'm not sure I'm ready to pay out £7k on the LG OLED77W7V which I love, just yet, or pay £2k on something that gives me a poor quality.
That's not a bad idea at all. You will get an idea of how it measures up to your current TV. I would not at all be surprised if you came to the same conclusion as me, that it looks good with the new stuff, not so great with the old. If you buy from a respectable retailer online you can get no-fuss returns within 14 days.
 

poisondwarf

Active Member
Dodgexander...
When I change my television I will also be moving from a plasma to, based on cost, an LCD and not an OLED. I also want to increase picture size from 50" to 65", and I have a budget of £1000.00 to £1500.00
So, a main concern, as indeed you have mentioned in a post above this, is motion.

I have been reading lots of your comments, and threads started by you, and I have reached the following conclusion, based on my viewing habits which are currently...

No gaming at all (not going to change)
Sky hd (but not sky Q..and probably not going to upgrade to Q)
Amazon Prime
DVD (rarely)

Future addition (if I ditch sky)...
Netflix (will also keep Amazon prime)

I have no idea if HDR is going to be important to me in the next 5 or so years..but it might.
So, within my budget, and the fact I like centre stands, I have the following options...

1) Sony Bravia 65XE9005
2) Hisense 65NU8700 (£500 quid cheaper than the Sony which is a considerable sum)

Would the Sony be hugely better than the Hinsense better when is comes to motion, pic quality, etc? ie £500 quid better?
Whatever I choose I will only buy from RS or JL

Your comments would be appreciated
 

poisondwarf

Active Member
The Sony is a massive step up, bright, full array local dimming, better blacks/contrast.
Very future proof as well with HDR10 and HLG Support added in the latest firmware.

Thanks for your comments, much appreciated, but is the Sony worth the extra £500.00?
I tend to renew my main television every 5 or so years, so being relatively future proof would be an advantage.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
@poisondwarf both those TVs use 120hz panels so are capable of interpolating the same amount of frames if you use motion interpolation.

The differences mostly between them will be in the software and you might find compared to the Hisense that the Sony, or any Sony TV for that matter has a more robust set of options for reducing motion blur and judder.

If your main concern is judder and you are someone who wants to be able to enable things like motion interpolation and dark frame insertion on a TV to improve blur and judder then a TV like the Sony will be better for you, but in the case of the XE9005 you are paying for a lot more than just that and it may well be an overkill for your needs.

If you are someone who doesn't really care so much about having more control with these options then the Hisense is more than enough.

Perhaps you would be better looking at TVs like the Sony 65XE85xx series or Samsung 65MU7000, 8000 or 9000. These have more robust motion controls without all the HDR tech that you are paying for extra with the Sony XE9005.

Being future-proof isn't really so much of an option in the TV world, everything is just made for the present. You could buy a more HDR capable TV right now in the XE9005 only for it to be out of date in a few years, but you could buy the Hisense now and be out of date in a few years. There isn't really anything that makes one TV more future-proof than the next.

As far as HDR formats are concerned, eg being able to accept a HDR signal when broadcasters start using it or when you start to stream more with HDR content any 2017 UHD model will suit you fine, they all support the HDR formats that will be needed going forward: HDR10+HLG. Its just that a TV like the XE9005 will do a lot better job at displaying them when you actually come to use them more.

It has to be said, there is very little point now spending more on a TV that is HDR capable when you aren't going to be using HDR yet, by the time you do you could well wish you saved that cash and investing it in a newer TV with more up to date standards then.
 

poisondwarf

Active Member
@Dodgexander
I thank you for your thoughts, they are very much appreciated
I have a lot to think about there, and plenty of time to think whilst i am at work.
 

chrisro

Standard Member
Let's update this thread ;)

The usual problem here too, should I replace my plasma? :)

Details:
1. Currently own a 2011 FHD Pana 42Gt30 with around 10.000 hrs of service, no problem with it.
2. Content now: TV - 70% of the time (80% FHD, 20% SD), via an IPTV STB; HBO GO - 10 %, via dedicated app on the same STB or from the PC; Xbox One S - 20%. All sources connected to an Onkyo HTR548 AVR with 5.1 speaker system, also from Onkyo.
3. Content intended: TV : 50%, HBO GO - 10%, Netflix 4K - 20%, Xbox One S - 20%.
4. Viewing distance: around 2.8m, in front of the TV, max 20% viewing angle.
5. Size limitation: max 49", not enough room to go bigger.


Reason to change the plasma: Netflix 4K, perhaps better gaming image.
I would probably sell my plasma for around 200 euros, and I guess I should also sell the Onkyo, since I don't think it supports 4K video and newer audio.

Since I cannot fit anything bigger in the TV space, my max is 49". So far I have been looking at the Sony 49XE8077 and the Philips 49PUS7502/12. I can still find the Sony at around 600euros, and the Philips at 700.

Shall I upgrade to any of the above, or wait for the OLED price to go down a little bit?

Thanks.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Let's update this thread ;)

The usual problem here too, should I replace my plasma? :)

Details:
1. Currently own a 2011 FHD Pana 42Gt30 with around 10.000 hrs of service, no problem with it.
2. Content now: TV - 70% of the time (80% FHD, 20% SD), via an IPTV STB; HBO GO - 10 %, via dedicated app on the same STB or from the PC; Xbox One S - 20%. All sources connected to an Onkyo HTR548 AVR with 5.1 speaker system, also from Onkyo.
3. Content intended: TV : 50%, HBO GO - 10%, Netflix 4K - 20%, Xbox One S - 20%.
4. Viewing distance: around 2.8m, in front of the TV, max 20% viewing angle.
5. Size limitation: max 49", not enough room to go bigger.


Reason to change the plasma: Netflix 4K, perhaps better gaming image.
I would probably sell my plasma for around 200 euros, and I guess I should also sell the Onkyo, since I don't think it supports 4K video and newer audio.

Since I cannot fit anything bigger in the TV space, my max is 49". So far I have been looking at the Sony 49XE8077 and the Philips 49PUS7502/12. I can still find the Sony at around 600euros, and the Philips at 700.

Shall I upgrade to any of the above, or wait for the OLED price to go down a little bit?

Thanks.
My biggest concern for you would be using IPTV on an UHD model. It's usually considerably worse in quality to broadcast TV and even broadcast TV looks soft upscaled to uhd in my opinion.

But as far as you view from a 50" TV you may be happy with this. 2.8m is a long way to view from even a 65" TV if you want to make the most from UHD. Viewing so far from a smaller screen will negate the point in uhd but at the same time lessen how worse poorer sources look.

But generally you should look at a new TV like this: a new model will give you gains in good quality sources but not with your normal TV watching.

As for recommendations, since you don't need wide viewing angles you should look at 50" TVs rather than 49". The Hisense 50N6800 is the best value right now in the UK but there are also 50" models from Samsung, Panasonic and Philips. They are all in the guide.

Motion wise it's very subjective, you may or may not be happy with an LCD TV, especially a 60hz one if you plan on utilising motion enhancements. Most of this is covered in the op and in other guides so best not to recycle it again.
 

Mane UK

Active Member
I like what you've done here.
May I suggest that you make it clear that it is perceived motion resolution on lcd, the TV still draws all the frame-by-frame pixels it should it's just the way your eyes track a momentarily static object that reduces the human perception of motion resolution.
I recall seeing a good explanation on this forum for thats already - from gadgetobsessed if I remember correctly.
 

chrisro

Standard Member
Many thanks.
IPTV comes from T Mobile, at a 1Gbps network speed, so it will be fine.

Been looking at HiSense or even TCL, but unfortunately can't buy any of those from Romania. I guess my needs, since watching lots of HD sports, are a 49-50" 100Hz VA panel, with good motion control, at a budget. Well, that pretty much screams "keep your plasma until is dead, and forget about Netflix 4k for now".

Thanks for convincing me :)
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Many thanks.
IPTV comes from T Mobile, at a 1Gbps network speed, so it will be fine.

Been looking at HiSense or even TCL, but unfortunately can't buy any of those from Romania. I guess my needs, since watching lots of HD sports, are a 49-50" 100Hz VA panel, with good motion control, at a budget. Well, that pretty much screams "keep your plasma until is dead, and forget about Netflix 4k for now".

Thanks for convincing me :)
Yes you'll probably want a 120hz panel but some people are happy with 60. You could always try to sample your own material in a shop to assess motion.

The problem is choice this year, the only 120hz VA panel at 49" is the Sony XF9005. They really do not care for smaller sizes now.

There are some ips TVs with 120hz panels from Panasonic, Sony and lg but then you lose contrast, black's and uniformity. If you can look at 55" instead.
 

chrisro

Standard Member
Well, I just checked the 49xf9005. It goes for almost 1500€ where I live.

It makes no sense to pay that amount of cash to get only a slight improvement in PQ over a 7 yrs TV set. Not for the type of 4k content available these days. Guess I'll keep the good ol' Panny for a few more years.
 

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